Trump Pays Large for Lying. Again.

[Guest]

@mblack said:

@badgervike said:

@mblack said:

@badgervike said:

@mblack said:

@profit from the status quo.

 “They let — I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country. When they do that, we got a lot of work to do. They’re poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump told the crowd at a rally in New Hampshire. “That’s what they’ve done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just to three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world. They’re coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world.”

Or do you want me post his “shithole” comments voicing his frustrations about the US Visa lottery?

It’s common place to make blanket statements about immigrants and then hide behind the statement that they meant just the illegal ones. 

You really don't understand the difference in legal immigration and illegal immigration...do you?  Shouldn't we want to admit people into this Country that are fully vetted and can supplement our workforce and be accounted for?  Instead, we just process asylum seekers who are an unvetted, drain on the economy who aren't legally allowed to work.  We know nothing about their criminal history, vaccination status, etc. In short, all we know about Asylum seekers is they broke US immigration law.  We asbolutely need more properly qualified legal immigrants in this Country.

Haha. Spoken like a true immigration “pro”. Do you know what Asylum law is? How about the US Visa lottery?
As an FYI the winners of the lottery are selected by the US and the criteria to qualify are set by the US. Those are people the US fully vetted to supplement their work force. But somehow still  find away to blame the countries of the citizens that you hand picked for not sending good people.

I know what the Visa lottery is (Technically it's called the Diversity Visa Lottery) and yes I know they are vetted and receive green cards.  Fully vetted btw is an overstatement in many cases where the lottery applicants are from war torn countries, countries hostile to the US, or lack in any form of formal record keeping  so that it's difficult to fully vet.  But yes..they are vetted to the best of our abilities.  That's a relatively small number (approx 50,000 if I remember right..about the same as come across illegally in a few days at the Southern border).  Trump's 12M was referring to the illegal immigrants that have been admitted under Biden through asylum requests or catch/release...or in many cases..never caught.  And yes...I'm aware that Trump was referring to the Diversity lottery when he was talking about shithole countries.  I'm also aware of the circumstances in that he was instead asking to increase the legal immigration at that time.  We've talked about it a lot here...both of these major party candidates are highly flawed and prone to say stupid, hateful stuff.  Both of them.

The bold is not only inaccurate but the exact same nonsense being spread around. This is how the Visa lottery works (high level)

1. The lottery is announced with qualification criteria set by the USA
2. A quota is set aside for various countries determined by the US
3. Applications are randomly selected from those that applied (potential winners) by the US
4. The winners compile documents and send to the US for verification by US officials
5. If the documents check out the potential winnner is sent a letter to go interview at the respective embassies by US officials. One of the criteria is to show you have someone in the US to house you and be responsible for you as you settle in

So everything about the lottery is controlled by the US.
But somehow it’s the fault of the winner. If You say they are “vetted to the best of our abilities” whose fault is that? Definitely not the recipient. But again it’s the recipients a fault.
Now about Asylum that’s a different case.
its clearly a case by case basis and there are many people who are contributing to the US economy that came here via asylum and many of them are not the “bad” ones Trump keeps talking about.

Lastly if a country was sending people to the US they will not qualify for asylum. That is not how it works.
Again, like I said, it’s easy to make statements about immigration without knowing how it works and then blame “illegal” immigrants. Thats the catch all bucket

aside from not being qualified after the fact,  due to lack of available information prior to being granted asylum,  how is that not on the individual?  if they met the vetting process prior to admission, but were disqualified due to information acquired after admission, isnt that still on the individual?  lets say a bad actor presents as a oppressed individual, and based on everything the state dept, or whoever, can find,  it appears that way,  but 6 months later we find out that they spent the previous 6 months in known terrorist training camp,  do we say "well shit, our bad,  make yourself at home."?

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

@badgervike said:

@mblack said:

@badgervike said:

@mblack said:

@profit from the status quo.

 “They let — I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country. When they do that, we got a lot of work to do. They’re poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump told the crowd at a rally in New Hampshire. “That’s what they’ve done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just to three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world. They’re coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world.”

Or do you want me post his “shithole” comments voicing his frustrations about the US Visa lottery?

It’s common place to make blanket statements about immigrants and then hide behind the statement that they meant just the illegal ones. 

You really don't understand the difference in legal immigration and illegal immigration...do you?  Shouldn't we want to admit people into this Country that are fully vetted and can supplement our workforce and be accounted for?  Instead, we just process asylum seekers who are an unvetted, drain on the economy who aren't legally allowed to work.  We know nothing about their criminal history, vaccination status, etc. In short, all we know about Asylum seekers is they broke US immigration law.  We asbolutely need more properly qualified legal immigrants in this Country.

Haha. Spoken like a true immigration “pro”. Do you know what Asylum law is? How about the US Visa lottery?
As an FYI the winners of the lottery are selected by the US and the criteria to qualify are set by the US. Those are people the US fully vetted to supplement their work force. But somehow still  find away to blame the countries of the citizens that you hand picked for not sending good people.

I know what the Visa lottery is (Technically it's called the Diversity Visa Lottery) and yes I know they are vetted and receive green cards.  Fully vetted btw is an overstatement in many cases where the lottery applicants are from war torn countries, countries hostile to the US, or lack in any form of formal record keeping  so that it's difficult to fully vet.  But yes..they are vetted to the best of our abilities.  That's a relatively small number (approx 50,000 if I remember right..about the same as come across illegally in a few days at the Southern border).  Trump's 12M was referring to the illegal immigrants that have been admitted under Biden through asylum requests or catch/release...or in many cases..never caught.  And yes...I'm aware that Trump was referring to the Diversity lottery when he was talking about shithole countries.  I'm also aware of the circumstances in that he was instead asking to increase the legal immigration at that time.  We've talked about it a lot here...both of these major party candidates are highly flawed and prone to say stupid, hateful stuff.  Both of them.

The bold is not only inaccurate but the exact same nonsense being spread around. This is how the Visa lottery works (high level)

1. The lottery is announced with qualification criteria set by the USA
2. A quota is set aside for various countries determined by the US
3. Applications are randomly selected from those that applied (potential winners) by the US
4. The winners compile documents and send to the US for verification by US officials
5. If the documents check out the potential winnner is sent a letter to go interview at the respective embassies by US officials. One of the criteria is to show you have someone in the US to house you and be responsible for you as you settle in

So everything about the lottery is controlled by the US.
But somehow it’s the fault of the winner. If You say they are “vetted to the best of our abilities” whose fault is that? Definitely not the recipient. But again it’s the recipients a fault.
Now about Asylum that’s a different case.
its clearly a case by case basis and there are many people who are contributing to the US economy that came here via asylum and many of them are not the “bad” ones Trump keeps talking about.

Lastly if a country was sending people to the US they will not qualify for asylum. That is not how it works.
Again, like I said, it’s easy to make statements about immigration without knowing how it works and then blame “illegal” immigrants. Thats the catch all bucket

aside from not being qualified after the fact,  due to lack of available information prior to being granted asylum,  how is that not on the individual?  if they met the vetting process prior to admission, but were disqualified due to information acquired after admission, isnt that still on the individual?  lets say a bad actor presents as a oppressed individual, and based on everything the state dept, or whoever, can find,  it appears that way,  but 6 months later we find out that they spent the previous 6 months in known terrorist training camp,  do we say "well shit, our bad,  make yourself at home."?

Fair question. However like you said “after the fact” but the rhetoric is not that. It’s assumed non Americans (from certain countries) are just bad - be they legal illegal, law abiding or as you said recently non law abiding.
You actually are making the point I am making. Its easy to paint everyone with a broad brush because its fits a certain narrative. 

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:
I do have to wonder if the post covid economic conditions would have happened under either Biden or Trump v2.0?

I would argue that inflation and other issues plaguing the economy were ripe (and were going to happen) regardless of who was sleeping in the White House. 

OTOH, I suspect many are quite happy looking at their personal portfolio net worth and 401k's these days. Hence the hefty spending by Americans inspite of inflation. 

The economy (and Wall St) will probably take off more in about Q3 if the Feds lower rates. 

the only thing to be happy about is that my IRA is keeping pace with inflation,  the way prices are going up, the increases in most IRAs wont cover the tax increases that will be necessary to pay off the ridiculous amount of debt the country has taken on in the last few years,  let alone leaving me much to work with in my golden years. 

i dont see them lowering rates until people quit spending like morons, its insane how people are still out there spending like there is arent any consequences.   people wont slow down their spending as long as the govt keeps printing money and handing it out to buy votes.   lowering interest rates right now IMO would just sent inflation to double digits,  especially with a president that has no compunction on buying his next 4 years with executive actions that just keep that debt calculator humming.

I just read a piece on how Americans are spending like YOLO since Covid ended...

Hell, even a god bless the usa bible will set you back $60 these days! 

yep, its like they are still getting those govt checks.   its insane,  we are trying to find help and despite the wage scale blowing through the roof the last couple of years,  you still cant find anybody that can pass a piss test and willing to work.  really begs the question of why biden needed to forgive all those student loans,  apparently everyone is gainfully employed and flush with cash.

I wish my kid got some govt luv on her student loans.


Here's another angle too....MN farmers are having a really difficult time trying to find workers. If they dont have access to seasonal, migrant workers out of Venezuela? Mexico? Colombia? They are out of biz...

construction workers too,  farmers are at least able to use a federal program to bring in workers from other countries, not as easy for other industries.  

I thought we wanted to keep foreigners out as they are taking “our” jobs.

No,  we want to keep illegals out,  never had any issue with those that go through the legal channels.  Maybe if we weren't spending so much having to protect our southern border and deal with all the illegals streaming in there would be more resources available to process legal enrltry.

Hmm. Glad to hear you say that. However that’s not the message that’s being spread. There are many legal foreigners that get harassed everyday. 
The legal channel is not that much better (not saying I agree). Many foreigners get out of status waiting for the legal process. Many lobbied for that to be improved. It’s part of the proposal that someone does not want adopted.

Who is spreading the message to harass those here legally?  

Honestly I don't think either party wants ro fix immigration,  they've both had their chances for decades yet here we still are.  

The issues aren't the problem,  the problem is those that have been pit in power and the people that control them that profit from the status quo.

 “They let — I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country. When they do that, we got a lot of work to do. They’re poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump told the crowd at a rally in New Hampshire. “That’s what they’ve done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just to three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world. They’re coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world.”

Or do you want me post his “shithole” comments voicing his frustrations about the US Visa lottery?

It’s common place to make blanket statements about immigrants and then hide behind the statement that they meant just the illegal ones. 

so you thing open border is a good plan for immigration for our country ( assuming you are a legal citizen of the US ) in this day and age?  just let them all walk in unfiltered because there are no bad actors that wish to do this country harm? 

Absolutely not.
I am saying it’s not helpful painting with a broad brush.
I know people who spent over 10 plus years before getting a green card. They never did anything wrong besides being entangled in the immigration cycle of horror.
They met every demand but the system was just that slow. Anyway, that’s a story for a different day.

Solutions: 
1. Since the southern border is the current issue, address that. There are many tried and tested ways to address that besides building a wall and shooting people. Many of the solutions being floated are just political fodder
2. Process cases faster. There are a lot of people in this county that end up in status limbo because the system is just slow. It’s no fault if theirs. Many people in the US end up out of status just by waiting. They don’t become illegal by design and did not even get here though the southern border.

On another note we should stop the political nonsense about foreigners are flowing in the southern border and taking our jobs. The more they make it a thing the more the people are going to try to get in from the southern boarder. Where you see a problem, foreigners see opportunities. 

[Guest]

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD Hmm. Glad to hear you say that. However that’s not the message that’s being spread. There are many legal foreigners that get harassed everyday. 

The legal channel is not that much better (not saying I agree). Many foreigners get out of status waiting for the legal process. Many lobbied for that to be improved. It’s part of the proposal that someone does not want adopted.

Who is spreading the message to harass those here legally?  

Honestly I don't think either party wants ro fix immigration,  they've both had their chances for decades yet here we still are.  

The issues aren't the problem,  the problem is those that have been pit in power and the people that control them that profit from the status quo.

 “They let — I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country. When they do that, we got a lot of work to do. They’re poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump told the crowd at a rally in New Hampshire. “That’s what they’ve done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just to three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world. They’re coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world.”

Or do you want me post his “shithole” comments voicing his frustrations about the US Visa lottery?

It’s common place to make blanket statements about immigrants and then hide behind the statement that they meant just the illegal ones. 

so you thing open border is a good plan for immigration for our country ( assuming you are a legal citizen of the US ) in this day and age?  just let them all walk in unfiltered because there are no bad actors that wish to do this country harm? 

Absolutely not.
I am saying it’s not helpful painting with a broad brush.
I know people who spent over 10 plus years before getting a green card. They never did anything wrong besides being entangled in the immigration cycle of horror.
They met every demand but the system was just that slow. Anyway, that’s a story for a different day.

Solutions: 
1. Since the southern border is the current issue, address that. There are many tried and tested ways to address that besides building a wall and shooting people. Many of the solutions being floated are just political fodder
2. Process cases faster. There are a lot of people in this county that end up in status limbo because the system is just slow. It’s no fault if theirs. Many people in the US end up out of status just by waiting. They don’t become illegal by design and did not even get here though the southern border.

On another note we should stop the political nonsense about foreigners are flowing in the southern border and taking our jobs. The more they make it a thing the more the people are going to try to get in from the southern boarder. Where you see a problem, foreigners see opportunities. 

The process is the process,  haste will lead to mistakes,   you can try and find a way to allocate more resources to it so they can process requests faster,  but I don't want to shortcut the vetting in the name of making it faster.  Until then,  build the dam wall,  deport those here illegally and make it known that if you get caught here illegally you will be dumped back in your country and will have no chance of ever getting allowed back in our country. 

Change the narrative about our border and the problem will ease and make it more manageable,   but that starts with building the damn wall and making those get caught coming over have serious consequences. 

The country cannot afford to house anybody and everyone who wants to come, set some parameters and when they are met,  allow them entry through a better system, a systme that doesnt start at our border.  I would say start with English as a 2nd language as a first requirement,  makes then much more employable once they are here and makes their entry into society much easier if they can communicate,  also require basic education and or employable trades/skills.  We have enough unskilled enemployable Americans,  we don't need to be importing more.

Lastly,  change our own systems so we quit rewarding non contributing Americans so we can get them off the tit and back to work,  I don't care what the employment numbers have been tortured to say,  we have far to many Americans that aren't working or are doing the bare minimum and staying on social programs as a way of life.

I will never argue that immigration is bad,  but the monkey shit free for all that has exploded the last 3 years is absolutely unacceptable and honestly should be considered criminal as it was very clearly orchestrated and funded by people with an agenda.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@purplefaithful said:

@JimmyinSD Hmm. Glad to hear you say that. However that’s not the message that’s being spread. There are many legal foreigners that get harassed everyday. 

The legal channel is not that much better (not saying I agree). Many foreigners get out of status waiting for the legal process. Many lobbied for that to be improved. It’s part of the proposal that someone does not want adopted.

Who is spreading the message to harass those here legally?  

Honestly I don't think either party wants ro fix immigration,  they've both had their chances for decades yet here we still are.  

The issues aren't the problem,  the problem is those that have been pit in power and the people that control them that profit from the status quo.

 “They let — I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country. When they do that, we got a lot of work to do. They’re poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump told the crowd at a rally in New Hampshire. “That’s what they’ve done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just to three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world. They’re coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world.”

Or do you want me post his “shithole” comments voicing his frustrations about the US Visa lottery?

It’s common place to make blanket statements about immigrants and then hide behind the statement that they meant just the illegal ones. 

so you thing open border is a good plan for immigration for our country ( assuming you are a legal citizen of the US ) in this day and age?  just let them all walk in unfiltered because there are no bad actors that wish to do this country harm? 

Absolutely not.
I am saying it’s not helpful painting with a broad brush.
I know people who spent over 10 plus years before getting a green card. They never did anything wrong besides being entangled in the immigration cycle of horror.
They met every demand but the system was just that slow. Anyway, that’s a story for a different day.

Solutions: 
1. Since the southern border is the current issue, address that. There are many tried and tested ways to address that besides building a wall and shooting people. Many of the solutions being floated are just political fodder
2. Process cases faster. There are a lot of people in this county that end up in status limbo because the system is just slow. It’s no fault if theirs. Many people in the US end up out of status just by waiting. They don’t become illegal by design and did not even get here though the southern border.

On another note we should stop the political nonsense about foreigners are flowing in the southern border and taking our jobs. The more they make it a thing the more the people are going to try to get in from the southern boarder. Where you see a problem, foreigners see opportunities. 

The process is the process,  haste will lead to mistakes,   you can try and find a way to allocate more resources to it so they can process requests faster,  but I don't want to shortcut the vetting in the name of making it faster.  Until then,  build the dam wall,  deport those here illegally and make it known that if you get caught here illegally you will be dumped back in your country and will have no chance of ever getting allowed back in our country. 

Change the narrative about our border and the problem will ease and make it more manageable,   but that starts with building the damn wall and making those get caught coming over have serious consequences. 

The country cannot afford to house anybody and everyone who wants to come, set some parameters and when they are met,  allow them entry through a better system, a systme that doesnt start at our border.  I would say start with English as a 2nd language as a first requirement,  makes then much more employable once they are here and makes their entry into society much easier if they can communicate,  also require basic education and or employable trades/skills.  We have enough unskilled enemployable Americans,  we don't need to be importing more.

Lastly,  change our own systems so we quit rewarding non contributing Americans so we can get them off the tit and back to work,  I don't care what the employment numbers have been tortured to say,  we have far to many Americans that aren't working or are doing the bare minimum and staying on social programs as a way of life.

I will never argue that immigration is bad,  but the monkey shit free for all that has exploded the last 3 years is absolutely unacceptable and honestly should be considered criminal as it was very clearly orchestrated and funded by people with an agenda.

Well, it seems we will have to disagree on this one. Somebody having to wait six plus years because they can’t find her fingerprints in the system yet she has to submit the same fingerprints almost every six months is not something to be proud of. That’s just one example of how broken the system is.

It’s easy to post opinions here. Try talking to people that are actually trying to stay with status.
For every Cam Bynum who catches a break there are thousands who don’t even though they are trying their best to stay here legally because their families and extended families depend on them. Many here talk as if its a badge of honor to be illegal.

I can give you more examples which have nothing to do with actual vetting people.

Immigration can’t even find the information they collected (not an insult to anyone just an example).
Even your post above says there is enough blame to go around and it’s not all on the immigrants like I originally stated. But again that is contradicting the official narrative of “immigrants are bad people”…. oh we mean just the illegal ones you know… the “animals”

[Guest]

@mblack said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@mblack said:

Absolutely not.
I am saying it’s not helpful painting with a broad brush.
I know people who spent over 10 plus years before getting a green card. They never did anything wrong besides being entangled in the immigration cycle of horror.
They met every demand but the system was just that slow. Anyway, that’s a story for a different day.

Solutions: 
1. Since the southern border is the current issue, address that. There are many tried and tested ways to address that besides building a wall and shooting people. Many of the solutions being floated are just political fodder
2. Process cases faster. There are a lot of people in this county that end up in status limbo because the system is just slow. It’s no fault if theirs. Many people in the US end up out of status just by waiting. They don’t become illegal by design and did not even get here though the southern border.

On another note we should stop the political nonsense about foreigners are flowing in the southern border and taking our jobs. The more they make it a thing the more the people are going to try to get in from the southern boarder. Where you see a problem, foreigners see opportunities. 

The process is the process,  haste will lead to mistakes,   you can try and find a way to allocate more resources to it so they can process requests faster,  but I don't want to shortcut the vetting in the name of making it faster.  Until then,  build the dam wall,  deport those here illegally and make it known that if you get caught here illegally you will be dumped back in your country and will have no chance of ever getting allowed back in our country. 

Change the narrative about our border and the problem will ease and make it more manageable,   but that starts with building the damn wall and making those get caught coming over have serious consequences. 

The country cannot afford to house anybody and everyone who wants to come, set some parameters and when they are met,  allow them entry through a better system, a systme that doesnt start at our border.  I would say start with English as a 2nd language as a first requirement,  makes then much more employable once they are here and makes their entry into society much easier if they can communicate,  also require basic education and or employable trades/skills.  We have enough unskilled enemployable Americans,  we don't need to be importing more.

Lastly,  change our own systems so we quit rewarding non contributing Americans so we can get them off the tit and back to work,  I don't care what the employment numbers have been tortured to say,  we have far to many Americans that aren't working or are doing the bare minimum and staying on social programs as a way of life.

I will never argue that immigration is bad,  but the monkey shit free for all that has exploded the last 3 years is absolutely unacceptable and honestly should be considered criminal as it was very clearly orchestrated and funded by people with an agenda.

Well, it seems we will have to disagree on this one. Somebody having to wait six plus years because they can’t find her fingerprints in the system yet she has to submit the same fingerprints almost every six months is not something to be proud of. That’s just one example of how broken the system is.

It’s easy to post opinions here. Try talking to people that are actually trying to stay with status.
For every Cam Bynum who catches a break there are thousands who don’t even though they are trying their best to stay here legally because their families and extended families depend on them. Many here talk as if its a badge of honor to be illegal.

I can give you more examples which have nothing to do with actual vetting people.

Immigration can’t even find the information they collected (not an insult to anyone just an example).
Even your post above says there is enough blame to go around and it’s not all on the immigrants like I originally stated. But again that is contradicting the official narrative of “immigrants are bad people”…. oh we mean just the illegal ones you know… the “animals”

I am not saying that the illegal immigrants are animals or bad people,  they are however criminals due to their being here illegally and as such need to be treated as criminals.  I have not said the process cant be improved, but until it is... it is our process and we need to do something about those that are coming in without following the process.  Companies I do business with rely on a lot of Hispanic help,  some I know for certain are doing it through legal measures,  others I am quite certain treat it like the Navy prior to the woke brigade took over.. "dont ask dont tell"   but we also have an exploding drug problem in our area that is very certainly tied to an influx of illegal animals that have come into the area with the infusion of hispanic workers in our area,  its this element that needs to be weeded out as they are the ones that are making the immigration issue such a hot button one. ( of course if the white trash wasnt buying their fucking drugs they wouldnt have a customer base... but they were already here,  and we cant deport legal citizens as much as we would like to do so.

I personally think there should be a "adoption process" where foreigners are able to get legal passage to the US if they are sponsored by American employers who are willing to help mentor them in order to better assimilate to society.  If they have families there should be a way to bring their spouses and children,  but leave their skeezy cartel affiliated brother in law behind.  If I was a business owner and needed help I would have no issue with creating a program within my company to help my employees sponsor foreigners that wanted to come walk a path to US citizenship.  In this day and age, with all the technology we have,  I think it wouldnt be terribly difficult to get something going along these line.  It wouldnt solve all the immigration problems or be the only tool,  but it would be a start.  Maybe tie it in with the programs that are currently there for farm laborers to come here seasonally,  if  they come for say 3 straight seasons and keep working for the same people they become eligible to stay here and look for permanent employment and then bring their spouse and children over?

I know I dont have all the answers,  but what I do know is the current situation is not the answer and needs to get un fucked quick.  build the damn wall,  round up the millions that have been pouring in recently, and send them back to where they came,  or drop them in any state that still wants to call itself a sanctuary  state and then give the bordering states that dont play that bullshit game the resources to keep them out of their states, and no more assistance to those states that laid out the welcome mat,  if they want to keep playing that game, they can pay for the results themselves.

[Guest]

@mblack said:

I know what the Visa lottery is (Technically it's called the Diversity Visa Lottery) and yes I know they are vetted and receive green cards.  Fully vetted btw is an overstatement in many cases where the lottery applicants are from war torn countries, countries hostile to the US, or lack in any form of formal record keeping  so that it's difficult to fully vet.  But yes..they are vetted to the best of our abilities.  That's a relatively small number (approx 50,000 if I remember right..about the same as come across illegally in a few days at the Southern border).  Trump's 12M was referring to the illegal immigrants that have been admitted under Biden through asylum requests or catch/release...or in many cases..never caught.  And yes...I'm aware that Trump was referring to the Diversity lottery when he was talking about shithole countries.  I'm also aware of the circumstances in that he was instead asking to increase the legal immigration at that time.  We've talked about it a lot here...both of these major party candidates are highly flawed and prone to say stupid, hateful stuff.  Both of them.

The bold is not only inaccurate but the exact same nonsense being spread around. This is how the Visa lottery works (high level)

1. The lottery is announced with qualification criteria set by the USA
2. A quota is set aside for various countries determined by the US
3. Applications are randomly selected from those that applied (potential winners) by the US
4. The winners compile documents and send to the US for verification by US officials
5. If the documents check out the potential winnner is sent a letter to go interview at the respective embassies by US officials. One of the criteria is to show you have someone in the US to house you and be responsible for you as you settle in

So everything about the lottery is controlled by the US.
But somehow it’s the fault of the winner. If You say they are “vetted to the best of our abilities” whose fault is that? Definitely not the recipient. But again it’s the recipients a fault.
Now about Asylum that’s a different case.
its clearly a case by case basis and there are many people who are contributing to the US economy that came here via asylum and many of them are not the “bad” ones Trump keeps talking about.

Lastly if a country was sending people to the US they will not qualify for asylum. That is not how it works.
Again, like I said, it’s easy to make statements about immigration without knowing how it works and then blame “illegal” immigrants. Thats the catch all bucket

So..is that really all that controversial?  I said the people were vetted.  Fully vetted in some cases is impossible due to issues in their home Country.  Do you really believe that candidates from Countries like Rwanda or Libya or...are FULLY vetted?  Do you really believe that those Countries are able to provide the same level of documentation on these candidates including birth records, school records, medical/vaccination records, criminal history, affiliations with gang or terrorist activities, social media verification, etc/

I didn't say they shouldn't be part of the Lottery but I was reacting to your broad "Fully vetted" statement.  Some of these applicants are vetted to the best of our abilities and admitted under established criteria.  In some cases, they won't have the same vetting as an applicant from a friendly, modern, functioning Country.  You really believe you're getting the same level of vetting from those Countries versus a Country like Singapore or Ireland?

[Guest]

@badgervike said:

@mblack said:

I know what the Visa lottery is (Technically it's called the Diversity Visa Lottery) and yes I know they are vetted and receive green cards.  Fully vetted btw is an overstatement in many cases where the lottery applicants are from war torn countries, countries hostile to the US, or lack in any form of formal record keeping  so that it's difficult to fully vet.  But yes..they are vetted to the best of our abilities.  That's a relatively small number (approx 50,000 if I remember right..about the same as come across illegally in a few days at the Southern border).  Trump's 12M was referring to the illegal immigrants that have been admitted under Biden through asylum requests or catch/release...or in many cases..never caught.  And yes...I'm aware that Trump was referring to the Diversity lottery when he was talking about shithole countries.  I'm also aware of the circumstances in that he was instead asking to increase the legal immigration at that time.  We've talked about it a lot here...both of these major party candidates are highly flawed and prone to say stupid, hateful stuff.  Both of them.

The bold is not only inaccurate but the exact same nonsense being spread around. This is how the Visa lottery works (high level)

1. The lottery is announced with qualification criteria set by the USA
2. A quota is set aside for various countries determined by the US
3. Applications are randomly selected from those that applied (potential winners) by the US
4. The winners compile documents and send to the US for verification by US officials
5. If the documents check out the potential winnner is sent a letter to go interview at the respective embassies by US officials. One of the criteria is to show you have someone in the US to house you and be responsible for you as you settle in

So everything about the lottery is controlled by the US.
But somehow it’s the fault of the winner. If You say they are “vetted to the best of our abilities” whose fault is that? Definitely not the recipient. But again it’s the recipients a fault.
Now about Asylum that’s a different case.
its clearly a case by case basis and there are many people who are contributing to the US economy that came here via asylum and many of them are not the “bad” ones Trump keeps talking about.

Lastly if a country was sending people to the US they will not qualify for asylum. That is not how it works.
Again, like I said, it’s easy to make statements about immigration without knowing how it works and then blame “illegal” immigrants. Thats the catch all bucket

So..is that really all that controversial?  I said the people were vetted.  Fully vetted in some cases is impossible due.  Do you really believe that candidates from Countries like Rwanda or Libya or...?  Do you really believe that those Countries are able to provide the same level of documentation on these candidates including birth records, criminal history, affiliations with gang or terrorist activities, social media verification,.

I didn't say they shouldn't be part of the Lottery but I was reacting to your broad "Fully vetted" statement.  Some of these applicants are vetted to the best of our abilities and admitted under established criteria.  In some cases, they won't have the same vetting as an applicant from a friendly, modern, functioning Country.  You really believe you're getting the same level of vetting from those Countries versus a Country like Singapore or Ireland?

LOL.... I am pretty sure there was no vetting the Irish!!!

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@badgervike said:

@mblack said:

I know what the Visa lottery is (Technically it's called the Diversity Visa Lottery) and yes I know they are vetted and receive green cards.  Fully vetted btw is an overstatement in many cases where the lottery applicants are from war torn countries, countries hostile to the US, or lack in any form of formal record keeping  so that it's difficult to fully vet.  But yes..they are vetted to the best of our abilities.  That's a relatively small number (approx 50,000 if I remember right..about the same as come across illegally in a few days at the Southern border).  Trump's 12M was referring to the illegal immigrants that have been admitted under Biden through asylum requests or catch/release...or in many cases..never caught.  And yes...I'm aware that Trump was referring to the Diversity lottery when he was talking about shithole countries.  I'm also aware of the circumstances in that he was instead asking to increase the legal immigration at that time.  We've talked about it a lot here...both of these major party candidates are highly flawed and prone to say stupid, hateful stuff.  Both of them.

The bold is not only inaccurate but the exact same nonsense being spread around. This is how the Visa lottery works (high level)

1. The lottery is announced with qualification criteria set by the USA
2. A quota is set aside for various countries determined by the US
3. Applications are randomly selected from those that applied (potential winners) by the US
4. The winners compile documents and send to the US for verification by US officials
5. If the documents check out the potential winnner is sent a letter to go interview at the respective embassies by US officials. One of the criteria is to show you have someone in the US to house you and be responsible for you as you settle in

So everything about the lottery is controlled by the US.
But somehow it’s the fault of the winner. If You say they are “vetted to the best of our abilities” whose fault is that? Definitely not the recipient. But again it’s the recipients a fault.
Now about Asylum that’s a different case.
its clearly a case by case basis and there are many people who are contributing to the US economy that came here via asylum and many of them are not the “bad” ones Trump keeps talking about.

Lastly if a country was sending people to the US they will not qualify for asylum. That is not how it works.
Again, like I said, it’s easy to make statements about immigration without knowing how it works and then blame “illegal” immigrants. Thats the catch all bucket

So..is that really all that controversial?  I said the people were vetted.  Fully vetted in some cases is impossible due.  Do you really believe that candidates from Countries like Rwanda or Libya or...?  Do you really believe that those Countries are able to provide the same level of documentation on these candidates including birth records, criminal history, affiliations with gang or terrorist activities, social media verification,.

I didn't say they shouldn't be part of the Lottery but I was reacting to your broad "Fully vetted" statement.  Some of these applicants are vetted to the best of our abilities and admitted under established criteria.  In some cases, they won't have the same vetting as an applicant from a friendly, modern, functioning Country.  You really believe you're getting the same level of vetting from those Countries versus a Country like Singapore or Ireland?

LOL.... I am pretty sure there was no vetting the Irish!!!

Given how loudly and proudly Ireland is standing behind hamas lately...please, vet the f*** out of the Irish, too.

[Guest]

@Zanary said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@badgervike said:

@mblack said:

I know what the Visa lottery is (Technically it's called the Diversity Visa Lottery) and yes I know they are vetted and receive green cards.  Fully vetted btw is an overstatement in many cases where the lottery applicants are from war torn countries, countries hostile to the US, or lack in any form of formal record keeping  so that it's difficult to fully vet.  But yes..they are vetted to the best of our abilities.  That's a relatively small number (approx 50,000 if I remember right..about the same as come across illegally in a few days at the Southern border).  Trump's 12M was referring to the illegal immigrants that have been admitted under Biden through asylum requests or catch/release...or in many cases..never caught.  And yes...I'm aware that Trump was referring to the Diversity lottery when he was talking about shithole countries.  I'm also aware of the circumstances in that he was instead asking to increase the legal immigration at that time.  We've talked about it a lot here...both of these major party candidates are highly flawed and prone to say stupid, hateful stuff.  Both of them.

The bold is not only inaccurate but the exact same nonsense being spread around. This is how the Visa lottery works (high level)

1. The lottery is announced with qualification criteria set by the USA
2. A quota is set aside for various countries determined by the US
3. Applications are randomly selected from those that applied (potential winners) by the US
4. The winners compile documents and send to the US for verification by US officials
5. If the documents check out the potential winnner is sent a letter to go interview at the respective embassies by US officials. One of the criteria is to show you have someone in the US to house you and be responsible for you as you settle in

So everything about the lottery is controlled by the US.
But somehow it’s the fault of the winner. If You say they are “vetted to the best of our abilities” whose fault is that? Definitely not the recipient. But again it’s the recipients a fault.
Now about Asylum that’s a different case.
its clearly a case by case basis and there are many people who are contributing to the US economy that came here via asylum and many of them are not the “bad” ones Trump keeps talking about.

Lastly if a country was sending people to the US they will not qualify for asylum. That is not how it works.
Again, like I said, it’s easy to make statements about immigration without knowing how it works and then blame “illegal” immigrants. Thats the catch all bucket

So..is that really all that controversial?  I said the people were vetted.  Fully vetted in some cases is impossible due.  Do you really believe that candidates from Countries like Rwanda or Libya or...?  Do you really believe that those Countries are able to provide the same level of documentation on these candidates including birth records, criminal history, affiliations with gang or terrorist activities, social media verification,.

I didn't say they shouldn't be part of the Lottery but I was reacting to your broad "Fully vetted" statement.  Some of these applicants are vetted to the best of our abilities and admitted under established criteria.  In some cases, they won't have the same vetting as an applicant from a friendly, modern, functioning Country.  You really believe you're getting the same level of vetting from those Countries versus a Country like Singapore or Ireland?

LOL.... I am pretty sure there was no vetting the Irish!!!

Given how loudly and proudly Ireland is standing behind hamas lately...please, vet the f*** out of the Irish, too.

I was referring to those that are already here.