Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I'm at the point where if we can move up for Maye or McCarthy without trading away the farm, great. Otherwise I'm using picks #11 or #23 to target Penix. I just don't think there is any way we can trade away next year's 1st round pick under any circumstances unless we want to be next years Carolina Panthers and gift some other team a top pick.
What if the QB you trade up for is Josh Allen, Justin Herbert or CJ Stroud? And what if Penix is Dwayne Haskins, Josh Rosen or Mac Jones? Would it be worth the '25 1st then?
Yep, that's the dilemma and the question: how strongly does the Viking's FO feel about these top 2 or 3 QBs on their board? Because IF they feel very strongly about 1 or 2, then you have to seriously consider taking a swing. No matter what we all think, there's risk involved either way. And there's no easy answer, no matter how strongly we believe our own personal opinions.
I'll add a yup to your yep...
They gotta get the evaluation right or we're f'd. Everything hinges on the work they're doing right now.
No pressure Vikings..
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I'm at the point where if we can move up for Maye or McCarthy without trading away the farm, great. Otherwise I'm using picks #11 or #23 to target Penix. I just don't think there is any way we can trade away next year's 1st round pick under any circumstances unless we want to be next years Carolina Panthers and gift some other team a top pick.
What if the QB you trade up for is Josh Allen, Justin Herbert or CJ Stroud? And what if Penix is Dwayne Haskins, Josh Rosen or Mac Jones? Would it be worth the '25 1st then?
I would not gamble next years 1st round pick (which could be a very high pick) in addition to what we are giving up this year to roll those dice. I'd want to minimize the potential bust windfall as much as possible considering the bust rate of the quarterback position (see Trey Lance). If my choice was to push all the chips in on moving up into the top 3 for a quarterback, or staying put, and taking a swing at Penix or Nix at #11 or #23, I'd take the latter. The deal breaker for me would be the 1st next year. If we can maneuver our way up for say McCarthy without giving up our 1st next year, I'd be good with that.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I'm at the point where if we can move up for Maye or McCarthy without trading away the farm, great. Otherwise I'm using picks #11 or #23 to target Penix. I just don't think there is any way we can trade away next year's 1st round pick under any circumstances unless we want to be next years Carolina Panthers and gift some other team a top pick.
What if the QB you trade up for is Josh Allen, Justin Herbert or CJ Stroud? And what if Penix is Dwayne Haskins, Josh Rosen or Mac Jones? Would it be worth the '25 1st then?
Yep, that's the dilemma and the question: how strongly does the Viking's FO feel about these top 2 or 3 QBs on their board? Because IF they feel very strongly about 1 or 2, then you have to seriously consider taking a swing. No matter what we all think, there's risk involved either way. And there's no easy answer, no matter how strongly we believe our own personal opinions.
I'll add a yup to your yep...
They gotta get the evaluation right or we're f'd. Everything hinges on the work they're doing right now.
No pressure Vikings..
And what about this front office and their talent evaluation thusfar would make anybody believe they get it right on their first try? Which is all the more reason I'm completely against mortgaging future draft capital to take that kind of swing.
Jordan Schultz - An NFL coach just texted about Michael Penix Jr: “Freak show! Dude runs 4.5 and then jumps 37 inches. Arm strength is crazy in person. Locked in 1st rounder.”
I don’t think this really changes Penix’s draft status. He’s not a runner. I don’t think he’ll change into being a runner. It’s probably an asset for moving around the
pocket though. I kind of think that you
look at his extensive injury history and you’re basically gambling that it
doesn’t bite you in the ass. I think the
highest he will go is in the 20’s, but I think he’s an ideal QB for a good team
who could use an upgrade who maybe is looking for a QB to sit a year, get NFL
conditioned, work on his mechanics, and if he busts no big deal. I don’t think he’s the guy for a desperate
team if they have other options.
I think a team like Dallas would be a very natural landing
spot for him.
But lets say that bad things happen and we’re locked out of
the top 4 QBs. I wouldn’t be opposed to
taking both Nix and Penix with our two firsts.
Quote: @medaille said:
But lets say that bad things happen and we’re locked out of
the top 4 QBs. I wouldn’t be opposed to
taking both Nix and Penix with our two firsts.
lol, this would be absolutely awesome. Seriously. I don't think I'd stop laughing.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I'm at the point where if we can move up for Maye or McCarthy without trading away the farm, great. Otherwise I'm using picks #11 or #23 to target Penix. I just don't think there is any way we can trade away next year's 1st round pick under any circumstances unless we want to be next years Carolina Panthers and gift some other team a top pick.
What if the QB you trade up for is Josh Allen, Justin Herbert or CJ Stroud? And what if Penix is Dwayne Haskins, Josh Rosen or Mac Jones? Would it be worth the '25 1st then?
I would not gamble next years 1st round pick (which could be a very high pick) in addition to what we are giving up this year to roll those dice. I'd want to minimize the potential bust windfall as much as possible considering the bust rate of the quarterback position (see Trey Lance). If my choice was to push all the chips in on moving up into the top 3 for a quarterback, or staying put, and taking a swing at Penix or Nix at #11 or #23, I'd take the latter. The deal breaker for me would be the 1st next year. If we can maneuver our way up for say McCarthy without giving up our 1st next year, I'd be good with that.
I’m curious to see how this plays out, because it feels like
we are positioning ourselves to aggressively move up, but I also feel like that’s
not in Kwesi’s makeup to do that. Using our
2 firsts and a probably a 3rd or a 4th in 2024 or 25,
feels about where the limit for me for how far we can move up without me
worrying about the downsides of the trade.
Using a 2025 first leaves us with no firsts or seconds in 2024 or 25, and
I start to cringe there, but the damage is limited to only 2 seasons. If we throw in a 2026 first or second, I’m
cringing pretty hard as that is a crippling amount of draft capital if it doesn’t
play out.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I'm at the point where if we can move up for Maye or McCarthy without trading away the farm, great. Otherwise I'm using picks #11 or #23 to target Penix. I just don't think there is any way we can trade away next year's 1st round pick under any circumstances unless we want to be next years Carolina Panthers and gift some other team a top pick.
What if the QB you trade up for is Josh Allen, Justin Herbert or CJ Stroud? And what if Penix is Dwayne Haskins, Josh Rosen or Mac Jones? Would it be worth the '25 1st then?
Yep, that's the dilemma and the question: how strongly does the Viking's FO feel about these top 2 or 3 QBs on their board? Because IF they feel very strongly about 1 or 2, then you have to seriously consider taking a swing. No matter what we all think, there's risk involved either way. And there's no easy answer, no matter how strongly we believe our own personal opinions.
I think in a normal year, I am all about taking the risk, but is there really that big of difference between 1 and 6 on the QB boards this year? Lets say Caleb Williams ( assumed #1) and Bo Nix ( arguably #6 ) history says neither has a great chance of becoming anything more than serviceable at best.... is the perceived talent difference from Williams to Nix worth what would essentially be 2 additional first round picks? ( assuming it would take 11, 23 and our 1st in 25 to move up into the top 2 or 3, vs being able to stay at 11 and get Nix or Penix? I dont see that any of the top 3 are that much better that it would warrant next years first, hell I have pretty much talked myself out of using 23 this year to move up for who ever is left at 4 or 5. I am just not seeing a sure fire prospect that is worth the additional draft capital vs being able to add an upper IOL or IDL at 23 and still having what will likely be a upper half first round pick next year.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I'm at the point where if we can move up for Maye or McCarthy without trading away the farm, great. Otherwise I'm using picks #11 or #23 to target Penix. I just don't think there is any way we can trade away next year's 1st round pick under any circumstances unless we want to be next years Carolina Panthers and gift some other team a top pick.
What if the QB you trade up for is Josh Allen, Justin Herbert or CJ Stroud? And what if Penix is Dwayne Haskins, Josh Rosen or Mac Jones? Would it be worth the '25 1st then?
Yep, that's the dilemma and the question: how strongly does the Viking's FO feel about these top 2 or 3 QBs on their board? Because IF they feel very strongly about 1 or 2, then you have to seriously consider taking a swing. No matter what we all think, there's risk involved either way. And there's no easy answer, no matter how strongly we believe our own personal opinions.
I think in a normal year, I am all about taking the risk, but is there really that big of difference between 1 and 6 on the QB boards this year? Lets say Caleb Williams ( assumed #1) and Bo Nix ( arguably #6 ) history says neither has a great chance of becoming anything more than serviceable at best.... is the perceived talent difference from Williams to Nix worth what would essentially be 2 additional first round picks? ( assuming it would take 11, 23 and our 1st in 25 to move up into the top 2 or 3, vs being able to stay at 11 and get Nix or Penix? I dont see that any of the top 3 are that much better that it would warrant next years first, hell I have pretty much talked myself out of using 23 this year to move up for who ever is left at 4 or 5. I am just not seeing a sure fire prospect that is worth the additional draft capital vs being able to add an upper IOL or IDL at 23 and still having what will likely be a upper half first round pick next year.
Exactly where I'm at and think that's the rationale play. They want to move #11 and #23 to get up 4 or 5 for McCarthy, Maye or Daniels(if they drop)...cool, but adding next year's 1st which could be #1 overall (ask Carolina) in any trade is asinine.
2 ACL tears is a concern. Yes he is healthy now but it is something to think about
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