Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
Kwesi fumbled that draft, but especially round 1. I’ve said it a million times, if you don’t have a guy at your pick in round 1, especially the 12th pick in the draft, then you did a craptastic job. There’s no possible way there isn’t a great player available. To ever trade down at all, let alone all the way to 32, just tells me you aren’t up to the job if it doesn’t come with a massive haul.
If the Vikings take the top choices at th time, we have Safety Kyle Hamilton, DT Jordan Davis, or Trent McDuffie on the roster.
This is how organizations don’t get better. They get cute in the draft and f it up. He at least seemed to learn his lesson year two and took the best player.
Nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie. Jordan Davis is no star, but he has been flashy at times and would have been a solid pick there. If either Cine or Asamoah panned out, it would be a productive trade. Right now its not a good trade, well see if it stays that way.
Quote: @Bullazin said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
Kwesi fumbled that draft, but especially round 1. I’ve said it a million times, if you don’t have a guy at your pick in round 1, especially the 12th pick in the draft, then you did a craptastic job. There’s no possible way there isn’t a great player available. To ever trade down at all, let alone all the way to 32, just tells me you aren’t up to the job if it doesn’t come with a massive haul.
If the Vikings take the top choices at th time, we have Safety Kyle Hamilton, DT Jordan Davis, or Trent McDuffie on the roster.
This is how organizations don’t get better. They get cute in the draft and f it up. He at least seemed to learn his lesson year two and took the best player.
Nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie. Jordan Davis is no star, but he has been flashy at times and would have been a solid pick there. If either Cine or Asamoah panned out, it would be a productive trade. Right now its not a good trade, well see if it stays that way.
And for full context, Jameson Williams was by far the most favored pick here and he has been a bust so far.
Quote: @Bullazin said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
Kwesi fumbled that draft, but especially round 1. I’ve said it a million times, if you don’t have a guy at your pick in round 1, especially the 12th pick in the draft, then you did a craptastic job. There’s no possible way there isn’t a great player available. To ever trade down at all, let alone all the way to 32, just tells me you aren’t up to the job if it doesn’t come with a massive haul.
If the Vikings take the top choices at th time, we have Safety Kyle Hamilton, DT Jordan Davis, or Trent McDuffie on the roster.
This is how organizations don’t get better. They get cute in the draft and f it up. He at least seemed to learn his lesson year two and took the best player.
Nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie. Jordan Davis is no star, but he has been flashy at times and would have been a solid pick there. If either Cine or Asamoah panned out, it would be a productive trade. Right now its not a good trade, well see if it stays that way.
And for full context, Jameson Williams was by far the most favored pick here and he has been a bust so far.
Plenty here wanted those other guys. Williams too for sure but those guys were mocked in the top half of round 1 by everyone and were at positions of needs for us. I like KAM. He blew that trade badly.
Cine should absolutely be on the roster bubble. It sucks to say because I had hopes but if he wasn’t an early pick in year 3 he’d be gone already. I hope he shows up to training camp with his hair on fire and rewards the faith. If not then cutting him should absolutely be on the table. Asamoah too.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
Kwesi fumbled that draft, but especially round 1. I’ve said it a million times, if you don’t have a guy at your pick in round 1, especially the 12th pick in the draft, then you did a craptastic job. There’s no possible way there isn’t a great player available. To ever trade down at all, let alone all the way to 32, just tells me you aren’t up to the job if it doesn’t come with a massive haul.
If the Vikings take the top choices at th time, we have Safety Kyle Hamilton, DT Jordan Davis, or Trent McDuffie on the roster.
This is how organizations don’t get better. They get cute in the draft and f it up. He at least seemed to learn his lesson year two and took the best player.
Nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie. Jordan Davis is no star, but he has been flashy at times and would have been a solid pick there. If either Cine or Asamoah panned out, it would be a productive trade. Right now its not a good trade, well see if it stays that way.
And for full context, Jameson Williams was by far the most favored pick here and he has been a bust so far.
Plenty here wanted those other guys. Williams too for sure but those guys were mocked in the top half of round 1 by everyone and were at positions of needs for us. I like KAM. He blew that trade badly.
Cine should absolutely be on the roster bubble. It sucks to say because I had hopes but if he wasn’t an early pick in year 3 he’d be gone already. I hope he shows up to training camp with his hair on fire and rewards the faith. If not then cutting him should absolutely be on the table. Asamoah too.
Saur you got cred with me but i sure dont remember it that way at all. it was Williams and Davis, Hamiltons name came up but you dont normally draft safeties that high. Maybe one person was on McDuffie due to “arms too short”. The bigger bust is Jameson Williams, but as i said, Not a good draft by Kwesi unless one of Cine or Booth or Asamoah pull their head out and become quality starters this year.
If 2 of those 3 become decent starters, KAM wins the draft. But the chances do not look good
Quote: @Bullazin said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
Kwesi fumbled that draft, but especially round 1. I’ve said it a million times, if you don’t have a guy at your pick in round 1, especially the 12th pick in the draft, then you did a craptastic job. There’s no possible way there isn’t a great player available. To ever trade down at all, let alone all the way to 32, just tells me you aren’t up to the job if it doesn’t come with a massive haul.
If the Vikings take the top choices at th time, we have Safety Kyle Hamilton, DT Jordan Davis, or Trent McDuffie on the roster.
This is how organizations don’t get better. They get cute in the draft and f it up. He at least seemed to learn his lesson year two and took the best player.
Nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie. Jordan Davis is no star, but he has been flashy at times and would have been a solid pick there. If either Cine or Asamoah panned out, it would be a productive trade. Right now its not a good trade, well see if it stays that way.
And for full context, Jameson Williams was by far the most favored pick here and he has been a bust so far.
Plenty here wanted those other guys. Williams too for sure but those guys were mocked in the top half of round 1 by everyone and were at positions of needs for us. I like KAM. He blew that trade badly.
Cine should absolutely be on the roster bubble. It sucks to say because I had hopes but if he wasn’t an early pick in year 3 he’d be gone already. I hope he shows up to training camp with his hair on fire and rewards the faith. If not then cutting him should absolutely be on the table. Asamoah too.
Saur you got cred with me but i sure dont remember it that way at all. it was Williams and Davis, Hamiltons name came up but you dont normally draft safeties that high. Maybe one person was on McDuffie due to “arms too short”. The bigger bust is Jameson Williams, but as i said, Not a good draft by Kwesi unless one of Cine or Booth or Asamoah pull their head out and become quality starters this year.
If 2 of those 3 become decent starters, KAM wins the draft. But the chances do not look good
Hamilton was an almost consensus top 5 player on every draft board that year. It was a surprise he dropped into our laps and we had a need at safety obviously by our drafting of Cine. Anybody who ever thought Cine was in the same conversation as Hamilton as a player is a moron. We certainly could have went Hamilton, Davis or even Williams, and I don't get the "bust" conversation on Williams. Spent his first year on IR as expected, suspended to start this season, so he is just getting his feet wet. But he is only 22, another year removed from knee injury, and you could see later in the year he git more comfortable and showed what he can do. Did you watch the conference championship game? So, completely premature to call him a bust. At least he has shown he can play in this league. The same can not be said of Lewis Gump.
Quote: @Bullazin said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
Kwesi fumbled that draft, but especially round 1. I’ve said it a million times, if you don’t have a guy at your pick in round 1, especially the 12th pick in the draft, then you did a craptastic job. There’s no possible way there isn’t a great player available. To ever trade down at all, let alone all the way to 32, just tells me you aren’t up to the job if it doesn’t come with a massive haul.
If the Vikings take the top choices at th time, we have Safety Kyle Hamilton, DT Jordan Davis, or Trent McDuffie on the roster.
This is how organizations don’t get better. They get cute in the draft and f it up. He at least seemed to learn his lesson year two and took the best player.
Nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie. Jordan Davis is no star, but he has been flashy at times and would have been a solid pick there. If either Cine or Asamoah panned out, it would be a productive trade. Right now its not a good trade, well see if it stays that way.
Say what?? I said a bunch of times that if Hamilton fell to 12 they should grab him and run away laughing. And I was not the only one by a long shot.
Quote: @Bullazin said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
Kwesi fumbled that draft, but especially round 1. I’ve said it a million times, if you don’t have a guy at your pick in round 1, especially the 12th pick in the draft, then you did a craptastic job. There’s no possible way there isn’t a great player available. To ever trade down at all, let alone all the way to 32, just tells me you aren’t up to the job if it doesn’t come with a massive haul.
If the Vikings take the top choices at th time, we have Safety Kyle Hamilton, DT Jordan Davis, or Trent McDuffie on the roster.
This is how organizations don’t get better. They get cute in the draft and f it up. He at least seemed to learn his lesson year two and took the best player.
Nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie. Jordan Davis is no star, but he has been flashy at times and would have been a solid pick there. If either Cine or Asamoah panned out, it would be a productive trade. Right now its not a good trade, well see if it stays that way.
You're right that it's still too early for a verdict. You're also right that Jordan Davis is no star. He's actually been kind of a mild bust. But I resent the statement that nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie.
T-Mac was my dude. You don't remember the Great Short Arms Debate of 2023?
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
Kwesi fumbled that draft, but especially round 1. I’ve said it a million times, if you don’t have a guy at your pick in round 1, especially the 12th pick in the draft, then you did a craptastic job. There’s no possible way there isn’t a great player available. To ever trade down at all, let alone all the way to 32, just tells me you aren’t up to the job if it doesn’t come with a massive haul.
If the Vikings take the top choices at th time, we have Safety Kyle Hamilton, DT Jordan Davis, or Trent McDuffie on the roster.
This is how organizations don’t get better. They get cute in the draft and f it up. He at least seemed to learn his lesson year two and took the best player.
Nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie. Jordan Davis is no star, but he has been flashy at times and would have been a solid pick there. If either Cine or Asamoah panned out, it would be a productive trade. Right now its not a good trade, well see if it stays that way.
And for full context, Jameson Williams was by far the most favored pick here and he has been a bust so far.
Plenty here wanted those other guys. Williams too for sure but those guys were mocked in the top half of round 1 by everyone and were at positions of needs for us. I like KAM. He blew that trade badly.
Cine should absolutely be on the roster bubble. It sucks to say because I had hopes but if he wasn’t an early pick in year 3 he’d be gone already. I hope he shows up to training camp with his hair on fire and rewards the faith. If not then cutting him should absolutely be on the table. Asamoah too.
Saur you got cred with me but i sure dont remember it that way at all. it was Williams and Davis, Hamiltons name came up but you dont normally draft safeties that high. Maybe one person was on McDuffie due to “arms too short”. The bigger bust is Jameson Williams, but as i said, Not a good draft by Kwesi unless one of Cine or Booth or Asamoah pull their head out and become quality starters this year.
If 2 of those 3 become decent starters, KAM wins the draft. But the chances do not look good
Hamilton was an almost consensus top 5 player on every draft board that year. It was a surprise he dropped into our laps and we had a need at safety obviously by our drafting of Cine. Anybody who ever thought Cine was in the same conversation as Hamilton as a player is a moron. We certainly could have went Hamilton, Davis or even Williams, and I don't get the "bust" conversation on Williams. Spent his first year on IR as expected, suspended to start this season, so he is just getting his feet wet. But he is only 22, another year removed from knee injury, and you could see later in the year he git more comfortable and showed what he can do. Did you watch the conference championship game? So, completely premature to call him a bust. At least he has shown he can play in this league. The same can not be said of Lewis Gump.
Chances are that Williams becomes a weapon at some point, but today he is as bad a bust as Cine.
I wanted Hamilton in that draft and was delighted when he "fell" to us and flabbergasted when we traded out of that spot. That said, I thought Cine was a very good second safety with a lot of physical talent. You may be disappointed that he was drafted, assuming he is too dumb to learn his role in the defense. I am also disappointed that our coaches have not been able to make it work. I refuse to believe he is a lost cause and should be cut. If you have ever coached sports you know that some kids are harder to reach than others. They learn differently and you need to be creative and persistent to find a way to communicate and help them understand. In short, I see this also as a coaching failure.
Zimmer hated Kearse and felt he was too dumb to learn the defense. Z could never figure out how to use him-except one game vs. Denver when Kearse was critical in the win. Kearse was never as talented as Cine. But he did OK in Dallas after he left the Vikings. (Coincidentally, Zimmer is now the OC in Dallas so I assume Kearse has played his last game as a Cowboy.)
You can be critical of the player. You can be critical of the GM for taking that player. That is valid. But unless the player is refusing to make an effort-and I do not believe that to be the case-reserve some criticism for the coaches who are unable to teach the player. We all love Flores but this should also count as a coaching failure. Nobody is off the hook on this one.
Quote: @dadevike said:
I wanted Hamilton in that draft and was delighted when he "fell" to us and flabbergasted when we traded out of that spot. That said, I thought Cine was a very good second safety with a lot of physical talent. You may be disappointed that he was drafted, assuming he is too dumb to learn his role in the defense. I am also disappointed that our coaches have not been able to make it work. I refuse to believe he is a lost cause and should be cut. If you have ever coached sports you know that some kids are harder to reach than others. They learn differently and you need to be creative and persistent to find a way to communicate and help them understand. In short, I see this also as a coaching failure.
Zimmer hated Kearse and felt he was too dumb to learn the defense. Z could never figure out how to use him-except one game vs. Denver when Kearse was critical in the win. Kearse was never as talented as Cine. But he did OK in Dallas after he left the Vikings. (Coincidentally, Zimmer is now the OC in Dallas so I assume Kearse has played his last game as a Cowboy.)
You can be critical of the player. You can be critical of the GM for taking that player. That is valid. But unless the player is refusing to make an effort-and I do not believe that to be the case-reserve some criticism for the coaches who are unable to teach the player. We all love Flores but this should also count as a coaching failure. Nobody is off the hook on this one.
to your point, it may be a bad scheme fit, its probably some combo of intellect, work habits, scheme fit and then he got the awful injury.
Like Zimmer, I dont know how easy it is to get out of a Flores dog-house. This was true in Miami too.
Athletically, Cine looks the part and I too was ok with the pick at the time.
This is truly his last chance here with this team.
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