Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingIowA said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Montana Tom said:
We have so many needs that have piled up now, saving $4.65mm on a position that you then have to go and find a replacement for that is significantly better, I just don't see it. Right now, I see so many positions on D with bigger question marks, specifically the D line (DT/Edge). Plus now clear questions at RB, certainly at QB. This is one of the biggest "I have no idea what they're gonna do" offseasons that I remember. All while the other three NFC N teams have improved.
I don't think we should release him without having a replacement in mind. And that has to be a veteran. There were two centers released this week in cost-cutting moves, both of whom graded a little bit better than Bradbury and don't have back problems. So I could see that route. Vikings have plenty of money.
Another option is Austin Schlottmann, who was actually pretty good in relief. His pass blocking graded even better than Bradbury. Just don't ask him to run block. Same with Risner.
What we can't do is assume we're going to draft an upgrade. That's just stupid. We could get a helluva lot worse than we were with Bradbury if that's what we do. A hot name among centers in the draft last year was John Michael Schmitz. He was the worst center in the NFL last year.
I just don’t see how we could possibly draft a center for
this year unless we get lucky. We
certainly can’t afford a premium pick on a position that is already relatively
decent compared to almost every position on defense, and by the time you get to
a round where it makes sense, you aren’t talking about an immediate starter.
its one of the deepest OL drafts in a while, there is a lot of quality available, better off to prioritize a glaring need at a critical position and if it doesnt work out maybe you get an upgrade at OG as opposed to burning a pick on a corner or LB that has no other discernable position to help the team. I agree we need a lot of help, but getting a center that can get a little push or anchor a pass rush would be wonderful considering its been about 15 years since we had a consistent quality C to really make the OL work.
Not understanding the "this guy sucked so the same thing will happen to us" logic.
Identify need, identify position strength/depth/actual production as it pertains to the current draft options and make moves accordingly. Basically everything Kwesi didn't do his first draft.
i am not following what you are not understanding in my statement. if we take a day 2 center and he doesnt work out at C, maybe he is still a decent OG for us ( also an area that needs improvment, if they go defense at CB, LB, or some other more specialized positions and they dont cut it, then there isnt really a fall back position. ( maybe you get a DL that can be serviceable at another DL spot that you didnt draft them for.
Looks like he meant to quote MaroonBells’ comment on John Michael Schmitz.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
Center isn’t a glaring need.
We need need 2 starting edge rushers with one of them being a
stud or better. We need need
another starting CB. We need to
get a starting RB. We really should
pick up our QBOTF. We really should
upgrade our IDL. We could use an
upgrade at C.
With our limited draft capital, I just don’t see how we get
a starting center out of the draft.
IMO you dont draft for need or you end up in a mess, if they havent addressed those areas of glaring need in FA, then they are setting the 24 season up for failure, its nice to get players at position of need in the draft, but to count on it is well.... hope, and we have covered "hope as a tactic" all offseason. especially if they bring Cousins back, if you invest that kind of coin into an aging veteran you better be doing all you can to get the most out of these last couple years. this toe in the water approach is getting stale.
I don’t think it’s purely about need, but also about impact
players at cost effective deals. Like the
top centers are getting paid $12-$14M a year.
If you go get a top CB in free agency you’re paying $20M a year. If you get a top edge in FA you’re paying
upper 20’s a year.
With the draft you’re getting 4-5 years where the price is
determined by what draft pick you used, not what position you picked. If you go get an edge in FA and you’re paying
$25M a year and then draft a center at 11 for $5M a year, so you’re paying $30M
for an edge and a center per year. If
you switch it around and get a center in FA for $12M and then draft an edge at
11 for $5M, now you are paying $17M a year for an edge and a center and now you
have an extra $13M every year for the next 5 years to spend in FA.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
Center isn’t a glaring need.
We need need 2 starting edge rushers with one of them being a
stud or better. We need need
another starting CB. We need to
get a starting RB. We really should
pick up our QBOTF. We really should
upgrade our IDL. We could use an
upgrade at C.
With our limited draft capital, I just don’t see how we get
a starting center out of the draft.
IMO you dont draft for need or you end up in a mess, if they havent addressed those areas of glaring need in FA, then they are setting the 24 season up for failure, its nice to get players at position of need in the draft, but to count on it is well.... hope, and we have covered "hope as a tactic" all offseason. especially if they bring Cousins back, if you invest that kind of coin into an aging veteran you better be doing all you can to get the most out of these last couple years. this toe in the water approach is getting stale.
I don’t think it’s purely about need, but also about impact
players at cost effective deals. Like the
top centers are getting paid $12-$14M a year.
If you go get a top CB in free agency you’re paying $20M a year. If you get a top edge in FA you’re paying
upper 20’s a year.
With the draft you’re getting 4-5 years where the price is
determined by what draft pick you used, not what position you picked. If you go get an edge in FA and you’re paying
$25M a year and then draft a center at 11 for $5M a year, so you’re paying $30M
for an edge and a center per year. If
you switch it around and get a center in FA for $12M and then draft an edge at
11 for $5M, now you are paying $17M a year for an edge and a center and now you
have an extra $13M every year for the next 5 years to spend in FA.
I get that, but that QB you just took in the first that you are going to build your future around is going to need a quality center, get them both in the house now. Worry about backs next year, let's quit trying to build this team from the outside in. Fix the trenches first and then get the guys with shorter careers. If we can get a top center in FA then go draft a kicker for all I care, but the center of our line has been an issue for nearly 20 years ( thinking back to the injuries Birk had towards the end of his run here, then Sullivan them elflein then bradbury... I just want to see the position addressed.
I still say if they want to compete you fill holes with FA and draft for the future.
Fastest line to the QB. Strong Center is the key to a good to great OL
If this guy wasn't drafted in the first round he would have been sent packing a long time ago. Good at his best, mid to below average most of his career. Dominated by real monsters (which is what you will face when playing good teams)
If you are serious about a new QB or running this back, he's not the guy at all. Give me Mason Cole, Conor Williams, a rookie, someone.
Jeff Christy was a nobody, became a great C
Matt Birk was a RT but smart and strong, was a great C
Sullivan, 5th round rookie, took over as C and played very well.
1st round pick, never a top 10 center in this league. Please move on.
Everyone talks about having a blind side tackle as a crucial player. Can't disagree. But a great center seems to be found on most championship teams. And yes the Vikings need to acquire talent on defense first. But they should take a shot at a late round developmental center. It usually takes an O lineman a year or so to physically develop into a competent nfl player. But it wouldn't hurt to take a shot. And given their current cap situation, it may be better to find one who can be an upgrade immediately in free agency.
Put Bradbury behind the wheel, have Cousins hop in the back seat, & back the car in reverse all the way to Atlanta. That should feel familiar to those two…!  B)
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Montana Tom said:
We have so many needs that have piled up now, saving $4.65mm on a position that you then have to go and find a replacement for that is significantly better, I just don't see it. Right now, I see so many positions on D with bigger question marks, specifically the D line (DT/Edge). Plus now clear questions at RB, certainly at QB. This is one of the biggest "I have no idea what they're gonna do" offseasons that I remember. All while the other three NFC N teams have improved.
I don't think we should release him without having a replacement in mind. And that has to be a veteran. There were two centers released this week in cost-cutting moves, both of whom graded a little bit better than Bradbury and don't have back problems. So I could see that route. Vikings have plenty of money.
Another option is Austin Schlottmann, who was actually pretty good in relief. His pass blocking graded even better than Bradbury. Just don't ask him to run block. Same with Risner.
What we can't do is assume we're going to draft an upgrade. That's just stupid. We could get a helluva lot worse than we were with Bradbury if that's what we do. A hot name among centers in the draft last year was John Michael Schmitz. He was the worst center in the NFL last year.
I just don’t see how we could possibly draft a center for
this year unless we get lucky. We
certainly can’t afford a premium pick on a position that is already relatively
decent compared to almost every position on defense, and by the time you get to
a round where it makes sense, you aren’t talking about an immediate starter.
Agree. It will either be Bradbury, Schlottmann or a veteran acquisition of some sort. We can, and likely will, draft a center on day three, but you're not going to get a starter there.
Actually plenty of teams find starting centers on Day 3. It's just the Vikings who seemingly can't develop any OL picked after round 2.
Quote: @RS Express said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Montana Tom said:
We have so many needs that have piled up now, saving $4.65mm on a position that you then have to go and find a replacement for that is significantly better, I just don't see it. Right now, I see so many positions on D with bigger question marks, specifically the D line (DT/Edge). Plus now clear questions at RB, certainly at QB. This is one of the biggest "I have no idea what they're gonna do" offseasons that I remember. All while the other three NFC N teams have improved.
I don't think we should release him without having a replacement in mind. And that has to be a veteran. There were two centers released this week in cost-cutting moves, both of whom graded a little bit better than Bradbury and don't have back problems. So I could see that route. Vikings have plenty of money.
Another option is Austin Schlottmann, who was actually pretty good in relief. His pass blocking graded even better than Bradbury. Just don't ask him to run block. Same with Risner.
What we can't do is assume we're going to draft an upgrade. That's just stupid. We could get a helluva lot worse than we were with Bradbury if that's what we do. A hot name among centers in the draft last year was John Michael Schmitz. He was the worst center in the NFL last year.
I just don’t see how we could possibly draft a center for
this year unless we get lucky. We
certainly can’t afford a premium pick on a position that is already relatively
decent compared to almost every position on defense, and by the time you get to
a round where it makes sense, you aren’t talking about an immediate starter.
Agree. It will either be Bradbury, Schlottmann or a veteran acquisition of some sort. We can, and likely will, draft a center on day three, but you're not going to get a starter there.
Actually plenty of teams find starting centers on Day 3. It's just the Vikings who seemingly can't develop any OL picked after round 2.
You can find starters on day three, but not immediate starters. And that's what we'd be talking about. No team in its right mind would go into a draft expecting to replace its starting center with a day-3 pick.
In 5 minutes of research I could find only one in the last 20 years or so who was taken day 3, started as a rookie and was not a liability: Jason Kelce. There might be others but there's no denying it's extremely rare.
I wonder if Bradbury is planning to retire due to his back issues and the Vikings don’t wish for him to announce until after the draft.
His back is messed up.
I thought he had all the ability to be as good as Jason Kelce. to play the same kind of game. Technical and powerful.
Nope.
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