The NFC North is “calling our bluff” of sorts

[Guest]

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

It's your opinion that the stresses are medically different, but you're not a medical specialist. Like I said, we all have opinions.  Trying to gain a real understanding of the situation is not "being a dick", it's asking legitimate questions because you may think you're a source of infallible knowledge, but I don't.

This study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6415485 contains a lengthy discussion of RTP (return to play) factors and I would note this part of the conclusion:

"We found that 61.3% of NFL players were able to successfully RTP at a mean 11.90 months following a primary AT tear. Unlike other major injuries, draft round and position type were not significantly associated with likelihood of returning after an AT tear."

It doesn't say what you think it says. See table 2. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

It's your opinion that the stresses are medically different, but you're not a medical specialist. Like I said, we all have opinions.  Trying to gain a real understanding of the situation is not "being a dick", it's asking legitimate questions because you may think you're a source of infallible knowledge, but I don't.

This study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6415485 contains a lengthy discussion of RTP (return to play) factors and I would note this part of the conclusion:

"We found that 61.3% of NFL players were able to successfully RTP at a mean 11.90 months following a primary AT tear. Unlike other major injuries, draft round and position type were not significantly associated with likelihood of returning after an AT tear."

It doesn't say what you think it says. See table 2. 

It doesn't list qb presumably because there weren't any?   They'd be skilled not unskilled, don't you think?

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@comet52 said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

Card carrying member of the Curmudgeon Crew. Everything Vikings sucks.

The comment isn't even barely relevant to the discussion, which is about the likelihood of Kirk returning quickly or easily from his injury.   Nothing in the conversation even remotely hints at "everything Vikings sucks". 

Maybe you could find a productive way to contribute by doing things like reading the actual posts and offering your own relevant insights instead of constantly attacking other posters.   

Dude, you're having a ridiculous argument about Kirk Cousins's injury because you don't want the guy to be resigned. And there's zero doubt you're being a dick about it. Calling it like it is. Like somehow you'll know better than the team that signs Cousins for the upcoming season. There's no 'relevant insight' on this to pull of the Internet, he'll recover or he won't. Aaron Rodgers is what, 3 years older and he'll be coming back as well. Gotta love all the Internet doctors, right up there with Waterboy.

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@StickyBun said:

@comet52 said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

Card carrying member of the Curmudgeon Crew. Everything Vikings sucks.

The comment isn't even barely relevant to the discussion, which is about the likelihood of Kirk returning quickly or easily from his injury.   Nothing in the conversation even remotely hints at "everything Vikings sucks". 

Maybe you could find a productive way to contribute by doing things like reading the actual posts and offering your own relevant insights instead of constantly attacking other posters.   

Dude, you're having a ridiculous argument about Kirk Cousins's injury because you don't want the guy to be resigned. And there's zero doubt you're being a dick about it. Calling it like it is. Like somehow you'll know better than the team that signs Cousins for the upcoming season. There's no 'relevant insight' on this to pull of the Internet, he'll recover or he won't. Aaron Rodgers is what, 3 years older and he'll be coming back as well. Gotta love all the Internet doctors, right up there with Waterboy.

Hell, I don't even think it's a hater/homer thing. It's about being deliberately obtuse. 

[Guest]

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

It's your opinion that the stresses are medically different, but you're not a medical specialist. Like I said, we all have opinions.  Trying to gain a real understanding of the situation is not "being a dick", it's asking legitimate questions because you may think you're a source of infallible knowledge, but I don't.

This study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6415485 contains a lengthy discussion of RTP (return to play) factors and I would note this part of the conclusion:

"We found that 61.3% of NFL players were able to successfully RTP at a mean 11.90 months following a primary AT tear. Unlike other major injuries, draft round and position type were not significantly associated with likelihood of returning after an AT tear."

It doesn't say what you think it says. See table 2. 

It doesn't list qb presumably because there weren't any?   They'd be skilled not unskilled, don't you think?

The point is there weren't any. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@StickyBun said:

@comet52 said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

Card carrying member of the Curmudgeon Crew. Everything Vikings sucks.

The comment isn't even barely relevant to the discussion, which is about the likelihood of Kirk returning quickly or easily from his injury.   Nothing in the conversation even remotely hints at "everything Vikings sucks". 

Maybe you could find a productive way to contribute by doing things like reading the actual posts and offering your own relevant insights instead of constantly attacking other posters.   

Dude, you're having a ridiculous argument about Kirk Cousins's injury because you don't want the guy to be resigned. And there's zero doubt you're being a dick about it. Calling it like it is. Like somehow you'll know better than the team that signs Cousins for the upcoming season. There's no 'relevant insight' on this to pull of the Internet, he'll recover or he won't. Aaron Rodgers is what, 3 years older and he'll be coming back as well. Gotta love all the Internet doctors, right up there with Waterboy.

Hell, I don't even think it's a hater/homer thing. It's about being deliberately obtuse. 

[Guest]

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@StickyBun said:

@comet52 said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

@MaroonBells said:

@comet52 said:

@MaroonBells said:

It's not about the recovery time. 

I'm just saying that timeframe is going to be different for a pocket QB than it is for a RB, CB, WR,

Also if you can, which of these statements was the one you actually meant?

Again, it's not about the time it takes to heal. All things equal, the RB/CB/WR and QB are going to be in the same place at the same time. It's about the amount of stress put on the injury when they return. This will obviously be much more for a RB/CB/WR than it would be for a QB who doesn't run. Again, why could I play 1st base and not shortstop? 

I'm just going to assume you're being a dick, because I find it incredibly hard to believe you don't understand this. 

Card carrying member of the Curmudgeon Crew. Everything Vikings sucks.

The comment isn't even barely relevant to the discussion, which is about the likelihood of Kirk returning quickly or easily from his injury.   Nothing in the conversation even remotely hints at "everything Vikings sucks". 

Maybe you could find a productive way to contribute by doing things like reading the actual posts and offering your own relevant insights instead of constantly attacking other posters.   

Dude, you're having a ridiculous argument about Kirk Cousins's injury because you don't want the guy to be resigned. And there's zero doubt you're being a dick about it. Calling it like it is. Like somehow you'll know better than the team that signs Cousins for the upcoming season. There's no 'relevant insight' on this to pull of the Internet, he'll recover or he won't. Aaron Rodgers is what, 3 years older and he'll be coming back as well. Gotta love all the Internet doctors, right up there with Waterboy.

Hell, I don't even think it's a hater/homer thing. It's about being deliberately obtuse. 

It's questioning your assumptions.   It got me wondering if there was better info than just opinions that a qb has it easier than other guys recovering from an achilles.   It doesn't really have anything to do with whether they keep Kirk or not, they will do whatever they do on that front.  

[Guest]

@minny65 said:

@comet52 said:

Of particular interest is the subsection titled "Return to Play (RTP)."  Some excerpts:

This is consistent with the RTP rate (80%) demonstrated in Zellers et al.’s systematic review and meta-analysis, which included 85 studies [57]. In comparison to other common lower extremity orthopedic procedures, including knee microfracture surgery, ACL reconstruction, patellar tendon repair, ankle, or tibial shaft fracture fixation, Achilles Tear (AT) repair is Of particular interest is the subsection titled "Return to Play."  Some excerpts:

This is consistent with the RTP rate (80%) demonstrated in Zellers et al.’s systematic review and meta-analysis, which included 85 studies [57]. In comparison to other common lower extremity orthopedic procedures, including knee microfracture surgery, ACL reconstruction, patellar tendon repair, ankle, or tibial shaft fracture fixation, AT repair is associated with significantly lower RTP rates and significantly longer mean time to RTP ..

While there are many factors that may contribute to the higher RTP rate and the overall improved performance observed among collegiate athletes in contrast to professional athletes, it is likely that the player’s age at time of injury is one notable difference [38••]. For example, among professional soccer players with ATR, age was identified as an important risk factor for worse outcomes [63]. Age greater than 30 years is associated with an increased risk of not returning to the same level of play (OR=4.46, p=0.030)

Once again, Kirk's injury (sadly) is clear handwriting on the wall for me to move in a different direction.

If we resign him and he reinjures or plays at 80% who do we blame?  Last year was bad luck the season before was Defense etc.

Let me just say this upfront, like I have been, the blame will go to Kwesi if we resign him for anything more than a huge bargain like 2 yr.  60 million which is not going to happen.

Time for a new Viking chapter  - IMO.  

Age is a "notable" difference in return to play and increased risk of not returning to the same level of play.  Also, an Achilles tear repair is of particular interest is the subsection titled "Return to Play."  Some excerpts: Of particular interest is the subsection titled "Return to Play."  

Difference between an ACL and an Achilles Tear: 
This is consistent with the RTP rate (80%) demonstrated in Zellers et al.’s systematic review and meta-analysis, which included 85 studies [57]. In comparison to other common lower extremity orthopedic procedures, including knee microfracture surgery, ACL reconstruction, patellar tendon repair, ankle, or tibial shaft fracture fixation, AT repair is associated with significantly lower RTP rates and significantly longer mean time to RTP .


Time to move on folks!

[Guest]

lol.

[Guest]

It’s semantics but the more I see this thread the more I chuckle at OP’s title. The rest of the NFC North likely doesn’t give a rip about the Vikings or “calling our bluff”. DET and GB are already probably better than us and CHI has better things to worry about. I doubt any of those three teams cares much about a 7 win team in QB disarray, until we prove them wrong.