The only other scenario I can even come up with would be Justin Fields. If the Bears do go QB, they're going to have to trade him.
I'm not an NFL GM by any stretch, but I would think you could get Fields for a second rounder this year and likely a conditional pick the following year that would escalate if he turns into an all-pro. I mean Chase Young was dealt for a second rounder...
He's got 2 years left on his rookie deal which gives you breathing room at a lower cost and the team is not committed beyond that. He gets to audition for a year and the team can decide after that.
I personally think Justin Fields floor is Baker Mayfield level. At best you get a top flight QB, at worst a young lower cost "transitional QB"
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Both Green Bay and Detroit are improved, but this is a very weak NFC class. The Bucs and Baker Mayfield? C'mon. Jared Goff? Jordan Love and a Packer team whose receivers might be even worse than the Chiefs? Even the 49ers look very beatable this year.
Weakest NFC class that I can remember for a long while...
=============================================
Green Bay has built a football tradition grand enough to unironically call itself "Titletown".The Packers have own 13 NFL championships, including four Super Bowls -- the last coming in 2010. That is more than enough equity to withstand lean years and even the occasional disappointment.
But "occasional" does not describe the level of playoff heartbreak the Packers and their fans have experienced since that last championship. Indeed, the Packers could now hang a different banner quite unironically, a new title for Titletown:
The most cursed franchise of the past decade-plus.
Packers fans and the organization itself can certainly gain comfort in knowing this year's team overachieved and sprinted to the finish: After starting 2-5, Green Bay rallied to finish 9-8, pulled an upset at Dallas on Wild Card weekend and had No. 1 seeded San Francisco on the ropes Saturday.
But the Packers might also never play a softer NFC playoff field, nor will this exact team be on the field together again. "There's a lot of promise for the future," head coach Matt LaFleur said after the game. "But nothing's guaranteed."
Nobody knows that better at this point than Green Bay and its fans.
After Aaron Rodgers led the upstart Packers to a Super Bowl in just his third year as a starter, the assumption was that it could be the first of many.
i nstead, the last 13 years have produced:
The specifically bad losses:
Getting blown out at home by the Giants in 2011 after a 15-1 regular season;
losing at home to San Francisco on a last-second field goal in 2013;
botching an on-side kick and losing the NFC title game to Seattle in 2014;
losing the NFC title game at home to Tampa Bay in 2020;
allowing a late blocked punt for a touchdown in a 2021 division round loss to San Francisco; and losing Saturday after outplaying the 49ers for much of the day but missing a crucial field goal and failing to capitalize on early and late chances.
Phew.
What could have been an all-NFC North conference title matchup -- a battle of longstanding vs. recent suffering between the Lions and Packers -- failed to materialize.
Another year without a new title banner to hang in Green Bay, unless they want to publicly acknowledge their top recent standing among cursed franchises.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ medaille said:
I don’t really understand the mindset of someone who thinks
we need to burn it down even further. We
are already as uncommitted as possible. At some point you’re just saying, hey I don’t
ever want to keep my good players and I want to ensure that whatever QB I bring
in is going to have to struggle as much as possible since they have no
supporting cast with any experience. I
do agree that bringing Cousins back tends to amplify the desire to go “all-in”,
but I can’t imagine a scenario where we’re auctioning off all our good pieces
to get more draft picks. The only way we
trade guys like Jefferson is if his contract demands make it a bad choice to
keep him because too much is tied up with one guy, in which case he will get franchise
tagged.
The Vikings problem is just that we need to be better at
drafting and coaching guys up. This is a
league where you succeed based on how much production you get out of your low
cost guys. Everyone has their super
stars, it’s the other guys that determine whether you are competitive or not. The Lions and Packers are both showing success
based off having quality drafts.
Let me first say, I absolutely would love to see Justin Jefferson spend his entire career in purple. However, his value to a team with terrible QB play is nil. WR production is directly linked to the quality of your QB.
Let's say we sign Jefferson long term and and draft a non top 3 QB this year. Let's then go with the likelier scenario that QB turns into Christian Ponder, but we identify it early and move on. Now Jefferson is 27-28 years old and you're back to square 1. Except now Jefferson isn't ready to "ball out" for whomever is throwing the rock and his trade value is significantly lower than 2-3 years prior.
If Jefferson were an equally talented player in virtually any other position, you absolutely lock him up because his greatness isn't dependent on another person's ablity.
All I'm saying is, Jefferson's stock will literally never be higher than it is right now And if this team is truly going to rebuild, its going to need picks to do so. You are also absolutely right though that the front needs to draft better, or this whole conversation is moot.
I feel I like if I were of similar mindset to you, I would
plan on getting a QB no matter what in this draft, not extend JJ this offseason,
and then either extend him in 2025 or tag and trade him. Then we would get a whole season to figure
out how confident we felt in the rookie moving forward and we could make a
decision on JJ at that point in time. To
me, I think drafting a QBOTF and then not having JJ or Darrisaw seems as equally
foolish as having them but no QB. After
a year, you’re going to have a fair amount of confidence in whether or not he’s
the guy and you can make a better informed decision in 2025 than you could make
in 2024.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ medaille said:
I don’t really understand the mindset of someone who thinks
we need to burn it down even further. We
are already as uncommitted as possible. At some point you’re just saying, hey I don’t
ever want to keep my good players and I want to ensure that whatever QB I bring
in is going to have to struggle as much as possible since they have no
supporting cast with any experience. I
do agree that bringing Cousins back tends to amplify the desire to go “all-in”,
but I can’t imagine a scenario where we’re auctioning off all our good pieces
to get more draft picks. The only way we
trade guys like Jefferson is if his contract demands make it a bad choice to
keep him because too much is tied up with one guy, in which case he will get franchise
tagged.
The Vikings problem is just that we need to be better at
drafting and coaching guys up. This is a
league where you succeed based on how much production you get out of your low
cost guys. Everyone has their super
stars, it’s the other guys that determine whether you are competitive or not. The Lions and Packers are both showing success
based off having quality drafts.
^^^
Well said and nothing is guaranteed that taking 2 steps back (or 3 or 4) is a recipe for any future success...
To your last point, the last couple of drafts have been mediocre and thats on Kwesi. If these playoffs have highlighted anything, its that this is a game of attrition, especially by playoff time.
Teams with a few superstars left standing (and quality depth) have the best chance to win.
Bills are a case in point; they were a pretty banged-up team last night. It showed in the final score too.
KC had Alex Smith coming off a pro bowl year when they identified Mahomes and made the move to get him. I dont understand the "given" premise that we are going to be taking a step back if we make the move away from Kirk, yes its likely we see a dip in production from the position, but its also likely we are going to see a dip in production from the position as Kirk ages and is coming back from what is likely to be more injuries.
This part of the conversation is more about getting rid of
your non-QB assets. Like should you get
rid of your other talented players if you don’t already have a quality QB in
the pipeline.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ medaille said:
I don’t really understand the mindset of someone who thinks
we need to burn it down even further. We
are already as uncommitted as possible. At some point you’re just saying, hey I don’t
ever want to keep my good players and I want to ensure that whatever QB I bring
in is going to have to struggle as much as possible since they have no
supporting cast with any experience. I
do agree that bringing Cousins back tends to amplify the desire to go “all-in”,
but I can’t imagine a scenario where we’re auctioning off all our good pieces
to get more draft picks. The only way we
trade guys like Jefferson is if his contract demands make it a bad choice to
keep him because too much is tied up with one guy, in which case he will get franchise
tagged.
The Vikings problem is just that we need to be better at
drafting and coaching guys up. This is a
league where you succeed based on how much production you get out of your low
cost guys. Everyone has their super
stars, it’s the other guys that determine whether you are competitive or not. The Lions and Packers are both showing success
based off having quality drafts.
Let me first say, I absolutely would love to see Justin Jefferson spend his entire career in purple. However, his value to a team with terrible QB play is nil. WR production is directly linked to the quality of your QB.
Let's say we sign Jefferson long term and and draft a non top 3 QB this year. Let's then go with the likelier scenario that QB turns into Christian Ponder, but we identify it early and move on. Now Jefferson is 27-28 years old and you're back to square 1. Except now Jefferson isn't ready to "ball out" for whomever is throwing the rock and his trade value is significantly lower than 2-3 years prior.
If Jefferson were an equally talented player in virtually any other position, you absolutely lock him up because his greatness isn't dependent on another person's ablity.
All I'm saying is, Jefferson's stock will literally never be higher than it is right now And if this team is truly going to rebuild, its going to need picks to do so. You are also absolutely right though that the front needs to draft better, or this whole conversation is moot.
but Jefferson does make it easier for the QB to play the position, so having him under contract while the next QB learns the pro game, whether hes the next Ponder, the next Mahomes, or more likely something in between, it will be better for the team as a whole to have a JJ playing for them as long as he isnt being a diggs. Hell, get him under contract and move him in a year or two if its looking like we made a bad pick, but moving him now, when he is happy here, is not the way to improve the team IMO.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
The only other scenario I can even come up with would be Justin Fields. If the Bears do go QB, they're going to have to trade him.
I'm not an NFL GM by any stretch, but I would think you could get Fields for a second rounder this year and likely a conditional pick the following year that would escalate if he turns into an all-pro. I mean Chase Young was dealt for a second rounder...
He's got 2 years left on his rookie deal which gives you breathing room at a lower cost and the team is not committed beyond that. He gets to audition for a year and the team can decide after that.
I personally think Justin Fields floor is Baker Mayfield level. At best you get a top flight QB, at worst a young lower cost "transitional QB"
I dont like the idea of giving up quality picks for what others have decided isnt going to cut it. late day 2 or day 3 is one thing, but with as many holes as our roster has, and the cap situation we are going to be facing, I think giving up a quality day 2 pick isnt very wise, it doesnt find us a long term player, and it doesnt really create much cap space over all in the long run as you will likely still need a bridge type QB as a back up since he is a running QB and will likely miss time.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
As i watch the playoffs the more I’ve realized the idea of a “competitive rebuild” is literally impossible at this point. The Packers are so young and good. The Lions are a legit contender and are not going anywhere. The Bears have 3 picks in the top 75, 2 in the top 10 and won 4 of their last 6 games.
The Vikings IMO have 2 choices, all-in compete or completely rebuild. That decision begins and ends with Cousins. Either they sign him and draft to compete or they let him walk and the tank is on from game 1 of next season.
If Cousins walks, you decide if either Caleb Williams or Drake Maye are worth moving all in for as your franchise QBOTF. If you think either of those QB's are Stroud/Burrow/Lawrence level where you KNOW you can build around them (and QUICKLY), you sell the farm draft pick-wise and go get em. Then you use that extra money to lock up Jefferson and Hunter, because you assume you're a only a year or two out from competing with your new QB.
If you decide that neither Maye nor Williams are THE guy, you nuke the roster. That means trading Jefferson for absolutely as much as you can possibly get for him. He's literally the only piece we can flip for all the gold in the kingdom. He's 25 and he's worthless to a team starting a dog shit journeyman while searching for a QBOTF. You stay at 11, draft the best player available regardless of position, spend some of what you get for Jefferson, and draft a project QB that may or may not work out. Then you trot Josh Dobbs or Nick Mullens out there and stink up the joint in 2024. 2-3 wins gets us a Top 3 pick and we'll have the extra Jefferson picks to spend.
Choose your adventure Vikings
At the bold, I think you're exactly right. If Cousins is back, then it's not hard to argue the Vikings should once again have the best offense in the division. It would certainly be a contender.
If Cousins doesn't come back, then JJ and Addison are virtually wasted and you might as well pull it up from the roots, Hunter included.
That said, I find it hard to believe the front office is in any mood to do that. It's basically throwing their fortunes, their jobs, into the hazard. If they had done what they intended to do last year, it'd be different. Right now, the decision would be to extend Cousins one more year or hand it off to the QB you moved up to draft and have been grooming for a year. Those are good options to have.
As it is now, the decision is to either sign Cousins, start a bridge, start Mullens or start what is likely to be the 4th best QB in the draft from day one. Among those, I see only one feasible option.
My position doesn't change, because the best blueprint is the same: extend Cousins with the plan to draft his successor, let the kid marinate for a couple of years in the system and behind a very professional, productive QB, and they stand to be better off when they get the "keys".
As much as it pains me to give any credit to GB, their current and former QBs both spent serious time on the pine behind a successful predecessor. I believe this works far better than drafting a kid that gets thrown into the deep end too soon.
This is pretty simple. Offer cousins a one year 30 million with a guaranteed 2 year if he meets certain performance incentives, tied to team not individual success. NFC divisional round appearance at minimum. If he doesn't take that, which he won't it proves he is who he is, a self serving, individual first, overpaid player. There could be multiple bridge QBs this offseasn. Hell Goff is only making 25 mil and scheduled for that next year as well. Mayfield, who we could have signed, could have easily been playing in the NFC championship game given a few different outcomes on plays yesterday. Mullens type players won't get the job done but a Minshew, Mac Jones, Cooper Rush, Darnold, Carr (if available), player just might offer competitive play on par with Mayfield while still either drafting a top QB or top defensive player and developing second tier QB drafted in the second whit cap flexibility.
I would do this and dump Cousins because Cousins won't offer a team friendly deal and the likelihood of him suddenly changing his spots when it comes to field of play are extremely low. We need to rebuild but having money to sign free agents (that are good signings) and making Kwesi prove he can draft competently along with those signings are as important as drafting a franchise QB.
Quote: @Zanary said:
My position doesn't change, because the best blueprint is the same: extend Cousins with the plan to draft his successor, let the kid marinate for a couple of years in the system and behind a very professional, productive QB, and they stand to be better off when they get the "keys".
As much as it pains me to give any credit to GB, their current and former QBs both spent serious time on the pine behind a successful predecessor. I believe this works far better than drafting a kid that gets thrown into the deep end too soon.
Overall I agree...It is a huge leap to the NFL, especially @ Qb.
The extent to which a Caleb or Mayes has to sit vs say a JJM is quite a bit different, hopefully the coaching staff gets a good bead on managing it.
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