Quote: @Vikergirl said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ TBro said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ TBro said:
If KOC loves Cousins so much, why wasn't he able to convince Kwesi to sign him in the off-season when they were in negotiations with Cousins and his Agent who tried to get Kwesi and the Vikings to commit to a contract extension? A healthy Kirk was too expensive and Kwesi has maintained wanting Roster and Cap flexibility. A torn Achilles Kirk and his contract demands is an unknown at this point. I think Kwesi has a number in his head that he is willing to pay and I have my doubts that it will be enough to secure Cousins for next year and beyond. March 15 is the start of Free Agency so we will know long before the draft if Cousins will be on this team or not.
Because there was no need to. He was already under contract.
Look, everyone is jumping the gun on these contracts. Oh we have to extend JJ. Yes, but technically he's not even a free agent until 2025. We have to sign Darrisaw. Yes, but he's not a free agent until 2026. Someone just the other day put Addison on the list of big contracts to come.
You don't let your Franchise QB who you really want on the team make it to Free Agency. That would be a stupid business decision. I've said this before. The Vikings like Football Kirk, but the not the business side because he's become unaffordable when you have to build out the rest of the roster and get those extensions you mentioned taken care of. The longer you wait on those extensions, the more expensive they become.
I think free agency is irrelevant for Kirk Cousins. There's no gamesmanship at play here. Everyone knows where he wants to play.
But he is very business oriented and about getting bad, if there are other offers he could use it as leverage
I don't think it gets that far. And assuming you mean "getting paid," I think that's mostly a myth.
Paid, don't know what happened there. It's definitely not a myth as evidenced by his contracts. I get it, it's a business. But I don't see him taking a hometown discount
Hometown discount, age discount, injury discount, call it what you want, or all of the above, but he won't get top of market money.
Quote: @medaille said:
The fans are all over this, we got to pay this guy and we
got to pay that guy, but I think Kwesi is very acknowledging of the risk of
paying a guy too early. The only reason
to pay a guy early is if you can save a lot of money doing so. All it takes is one injury to derail a
career. The idea that we would pay JJ
last offseason was ludicrous.
I think we were actively ready to pay Cousins last year, but
only for 2 years. He wanted 3 so it wasn’t
going to happen. Cousins is what he
is. He’s a good but not great QB and you
surround him with talent and maybe he starts to shine more.
I am of the firm belief that if you have a chance to take a QB
you think has good potential to be a franchise altering move, you should always
draft that QB. At worst you can trade
them later on and recoup your picks. At
best they turn into that guy who puts the game on easy mode. After that, I think you start talking about
Flores. I think it’s pretty clear, he’s
not going to be here for long, so I think if he’s back in 2024 you should treat
that as sort of as a window for going all in.
He’s getting so much more out of our defensive talent than probably anybody
else would. If Flores is back, I think it
would be foolish to enter 2024 without a quality veteran QB on the roster. You just can’t risk wasting 2024 because you
dumped your QB and missed on getting a guy who can immediately contribute. I think the Vikings should be one of the most
desirable spots for a FA QB to end up, so as long as the pocketbook is open, we
should be able to end up with Cousins, Dobbs or a solid FA option. While I think it would be foolish for the
team to pass on a franchise altering QB, I think there’s plenty of room for, “Hey,
the draft just didn’t work out for getting that guy, so lets get a stud DL/Edge
and rally around our good but not great veteran QB.”
Agree. There's no doubt the Vikings would be legit Super Bowl contenders right now with Cousins and JJ to go along with Hockeson, Addison and Flores's much improved defense. So I think it's very likely that if they're able to keep Flores (or at least his defense), they will see the '24 version of this team as a potential champion. And they will make moves reflecting that, including resigning Cousins. They will not give that team to either a rookie or a bridge.
Quote: @medaille said:
What do you guys think the market is for Cousins? I just don’t think there’s going to be that
much more money out there that screws this up for us. Obviously, if some team is offering him 3
years, $120M fully guaranteed, we probably can’t compete with a 2 year, $66M
deal, because that’s pretty life changing money, even for someone who already
has money, but I just don’t think there’s going to be many teams that are going
to be that generous. He’s a good but not
great QB that’s old and coming off a fairly significant injury. If you have subpar offensive talent, he’s not
your guy. If you are more in the rebuilding
phase he’s not your guy. You’re basically
looking for a team that is on the upper spectrum of offensive talent and is in
win now mode. Who are those teams? If Cousins is comparing us at $66M for 2
years and a lesser team at $80M for 2 years, I think he’d choose us any day of
the week. I don’t think he’s that much
of a mercenary.
I think the Vikings will extend him before it gets to the point where he's fielding offers from other teams. The injury could complicate that, but I think all sides have to just assume he returns to full health in time for OTAs and training camp. Not a reckless assumption, despite Jared Allen's dickish comment.
If I were to guess, I'd say the Vikings offer 1-year, $46M. Kirk's team will pursue a longer term and be willing to take less money to get the longer term. Eventually, they'll settle on 2 years, $42M AAV.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
What do you guys think the market is for Cousins? I just don’t think there’s going to be that
much more money out there that screws this up for us. Obviously, if some team is offering him 3
years, $120M fully guaranteed, we probably can’t compete with a 2 year, $66M
deal, because that’s pretty life changing money, even for someone who already
has money, but I just don’t think there’s going to be many teams that are going
to be that generous. He’s a good but not
great QB that’s old and coming off a fairly significant injury. If you have subpar offensive talent, he’s not
your guy. If you are more in the rebuilding
phase he’s not your guy. You’re basically
looking for a team that is on the upper spectrum of offensive talent and is in
win now mode. Who are those teams? If Cousins is comparing us at $66M for 2
years and a lesser team at $80M for 2 years, I think he’d choose us any day of
the week. I don’t think he’s that much
of a mercenary.
I think the Vikings will extend him before it gets to the point where he's fielding offers from other teams. The injury could complicate that, but I think all sides have to just assume he returns to full health in time for OTAs and training camp. Not a reckless assumption, despite Jared Allen's dickish comment.
If I were to guess, I'd say the Vikings offer 1-year, $46M. Kirk's team will pursue a longer term and be willing to take less money to get the longer team. Eventually, they'll settle on 2 years, $42M AAV.
Iirc they could have had him for lass prior to this year. Of course we dont know the actual terms, but imo his value isn't greater now.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
What do you guys think the market is for Cousins? I just don’t think there’s going to be that
much more money out there that screws this up for us. Obviously, if some team is offering him 3
years, $120M fully guaranteed, we probably can’t compete with a 2 year, $66M
deal, because that’s pretty life changing money, even for someone who already
has money, but I just don’t think there’s going to be many teams that are going
to be that generous. He’s a good but not
great QB that’s old and coming off a fairly significant injury. If you have subpar offensive talent, he’s not
your guy. If you are more in the rebuilding
phase he’s not your guy. You’re basically
looking for a team that is on the upper spectrum of offensive talent and is in
win now mode. Who are those teams? If Cousins is comparing us at $66M for 2
years and a lesser team at $80M for 2 years, I think he’d choose us any day of
the week. I don’t think he’s that much
of a mercenary.
I think the Vikings will extend him before it gets to the point where he's fielding offers from other teams. The injury could complicate that, but I think all sides have to just assume he returns to full health in time for OTAs and training camp. Not a reckless assumption, despite Jared Allen's dickish comment.
If I were to guess, I'd say the Vikings offer 1-year, $46M. Kirk's team will pursue a longer term and be willing to take less money to get the longer team. Eventually, they'll settle on 2 years, $42M AAV.
Iirc they could have had him for lass prior to this year. Of course we dont know the actual terms, but imo his value isn't greater now.
You're not factoring in time--the fact that the salary cap and QB contracts go up every year.
I don't know if my numbers are accurate. It's just a guess. They could be WAY off. There are just too many variables to consider. Either way, it's probably more accurate to think of where Cousins slots in among other QBs rather than the amount of money. I agree with PF in that it will be well below the young, long-term QBs like Burrow, Hurts, etc but above QBs like Stafford, Carr, Jones, etc.
I think assuming Cousins looks good on his ankle in March, Cousins
will resign here for something like:
Year 1: $30M +$5M
bonus for number for games played+$5M bonus for performance
Year 2: $35M
+$5M performance bonus
No trade clause to protect Cousins from getting
shipped somewhere he doesn’t want to go.
Team has an option to cancel year 2 if Cousins misses
X number of games due to injury or fails to meet his performance bonus in year
1, otherwise year 2 salary is guaranteed.
I don’t think there’s any possibility of him getting 3 years
here. Vikings are limited to only year 1
if his ankle is limiting him severely.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
What do you guys think the market is for Cousins? I just don’t think there’s going to be that
much more money out there that screws this up for us. Obviously, if some team is offering him 3
years, $120M fully guaranteed, we probably can’t compete with a 2 year, $66M
deal, because that’s pretty life changing money, even for someone who already
has money, but I just don’t think there’s going to be many teams that are going
to be that generous. He’s a good but not
great QB that’s old and coming off a fairly significant injury. If you have subpar offensive talent, he’s not
your guy. If you are more in the rebuilding
phase he’s not your guy. You’re basically
looking for a team that is on the upper spectrum of offensive talent and is in
win now mode. Who are those teams? If Cousins is comparing us at $66M for 2
years and a lesser team at $80M for 2 years, I think he’d choose us any day of
the week. I don’t think he’s that much
of a mercenary.
I think the Vikings will extend him before it gets to the point where he's fielding offers from other teams. The injury could complicate that, but I think all sides have to just assume he returns to full health in time for OTAs and training camp. Not a reckless assumption, despite Jared Allen's dickish comment.
If I were to guess, I'd say the Vikings offer 1-year, $46M. Kirk's team will pursue a longer term and be willing to take less money to get the longer team. Eventually, they'll settle on 2 years, $42M AAV.
Iirc they could have had him for lass prior to this year. Of course we dont know the actual terms, but imo his value isn't greater now.
You're not factoring in time--the fact that the salary cap and QB contracts go up every year.
I don't know if my numbers are accurate. It's just a guess. They could be WAY off. There are just too many variables to consider. Either way, it's probably more accurate to think of where Cousins slots in among other QBs rather than the amount of money. I agree with PF in that it will be well below the young, long-term QBs like Burrow, Hurts, etc but above QBs like Stafford, Carr, Jones, etc.
They were at the time. It was reported he would play for around 40 per year avg. and the team declined it iirc. So of they didn't want to go 40, your proposed numbers seem pretty unlikely now that he got broke once. The Ironman money will be off the table and replaced with likely to be reached incentives IMO.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
What do you guys think the market is for Cousins? I just don’t think there’s going to be that
much more money out there that screws this up for us. Obviously, if some team is offering him 3
years, $120M fully guaranteed, we probably can’t compete with a 2 year, $66M
deal, because that’s pretty life changing money, even for someone who already
has money, but I just don’t think there’s going to be many teams that are going
to be that generous. He’s a good but not
great QB that’s old and coming off a fairly significant injury. If you have subpar offensive talent, he’s not
your guy. If you are more in the rebuilding
phase he’s not your guy. You’re basically
looking for a team that is on the upper spectrum of offensive talent and is in
win now mode. Who are those teams? If Cousins is comparing us at $66M for 2
years and a lesser team at $80M for 2 years, I think he’d choose us any day of
the week. I don’t think he’s that much
of a mercenary.
I think the Vikings will extend him before it gets to the point where he's fielding offers from other teams. The injury could complicate that, but I think all sides have to just assume he returns to full health in time for OTAs and training camp. Not a reckless assumption, despite Jared Allen's dickish comment.
If I were to guess, I'd say the Vikings offer 1-year, $46M. Kirk's team will pursue a longer term and be willing to take less money to get the longer team. Eventually, they'll settle on 2 years, $42M AAV.
Iirc they could have had him for lass prior to this year. Of course we dont know the actual terms, but imo his value isn't greater now.
You're not factoring in time--the fact that the salary cap and QB contracts go up every year.
I don't know if my numbers are accurate. It's just a guess. They could be WAY off. There are just too many variables to consider. Either way, it's probably more accurate to think of where Cousins slots in among other QBs rather than the amount of money. I agree with PF in that it will be well below the young, long-term QBs like Burrow, Hurts, etc but above QBs like Stafford, Carr, Jones, etc.
They were at the time. It was reported he would play for around 40 per year avg. and the team declined it iirc. So of they didn't want to go 40, your proposed numbers seem pretty unlikely now that he got broke once. The Ironman money will be off the table and replaced with likely to be reached incentives IMO.
I don't think anyone knows what the numbers were. Even if $40M is correct, there's no term attached to that. $40M AAV on a 1-year term is a helluva lot different than $40M AAV on a 3-year term.
Either way, the market for QB contracts in '24 should be about 12% higher than 2023 (assuming it follows the cap increase, and it always does). So if you factor that in, then subtract the achilles uncertainty (more or less than 12%? Who knows), they might end up right around the same place.
Just hope they get something done before Jared Goff drops everyone's jaws with his.
All his agent has to do is talk to a couple other teams and voila, he's got a "market" and leverage. But I don't see Kwesi going for a Rick Spielman style giveaway. He's been pretty consistent about what they are and aren't willing to do with/for Kirk.
Quote: @comet52 said:
All his agent has to do is talk to a couple other teams and voila, he's got a "market" and leverage. But I don't see Kwesi going for a Rick Spielman style giveaway. He's been pretty consistent about what they are and aren't willing to do with/for Kirk.
If Cousins gets the point where it's legal for his agents to talk to other teams, it's probably gone too far. But even if it does, the LAST thing Cousins wants is to go learn a new offense, in a new city, without his line, without Jefferson, Addison and Hockenson. That, the injury and the fact that the Vikings have no other options at QB, should lead to an agreement.
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