Quote: @Skodin said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Loved Jared Allen as a pass rusher, but with all due respect to him, he's kind of a moron. Achilles injuries aren't what they were even as recently as when he played. And we're not talking about a running back here, or a receiver, or a pass rusher or a corner. We're talking about a QB for whom mobility was never his bread and butter.
right a QB who you will have to tie another $70 million into who will be even more immobile @ 37 and 38 only to have to use said repaired achilles to push off of every single pass of that $60 million.
Kirk is not taking a home town deal, he's going to be asking for $35-40 million a year and force the team to have to not add other pieces so we can ride the Cousins ride a little longer.
Jared is the not the sharpest, but he's not wrong.
Yes he is. And so are you.
For whatever reason, some continue to believe that it's easy to just pull a QB from the draft who's ready to replace Cousins in this offense and deliver dimes to JJ, Addison and Hock on day one. Aren't we smarter than that by now?
Those people might want to look at Chicago. In their 104-year history, they haven't had a QB season as good as Cousins career-worst, despite using eleven 1st round picks on QBs.
Might want to look at Cleveland....or Carolina. In their short history, the Panthers have drafted 11 QBs. In the last six seasons, they have had 16 different starting QBs from Young to Darnold to Mayfield to Bridgewater. 16 different starters in 6 seasons!!! And they'll probably be trying again in a couple years.
But the Vikings are going to just stick in their thumb and pull out a plum? Then hand the keys to this highly paid offense to a rookie, potentially wasting the primes of JJ, Darrisaw, Addison, Hockenson?
You know why everyone talks about how unusually great the situation in Minnesota would be for a rookie QB? He'd have a stable, veteran OL and the best receivers in the NFL. It never happens because teams never saddle an offense like that with an unproven QB.
You know all those QBs we talk about in the 2024 QB thread? Odds tell us that about 2/3 of them are going to be busts. There was just as much excitement about Trey Lance and Mac Jones and Zach Wilson and Justin Fields and Daniel Jones and Dwayne Haskins and Baker Mayfield....Darnold, Rosen, Trubisky, Wentz, Lynch, Winston, Mariota, Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater, Manuel, RGIII, etc., etc...1st rounders all.
It's not going to happen. They'll draft a QB, but not before giving Cousins a deal. It won't be top of market, but it's not going to be peanuts either. The only way it DOESN'T happen IMO is if Jaren Hall starts the rest of the season and is a Purdy-like revelation. Seems a bit unlikely.
This fear of Viking fans of being the Bears, Browns, Carolina is nuts to me. You can name 1, 1 impactful single receiving threat on those teams over the last 40 years (Steve Smith)
The 2004 Steelers had a small school rookie take over a team that had Bettis, Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress, lost to Brady in the Championship game. 2006 the Chargers handed off the team to Phillip Rivers that had LT, Gates, etc, lost to Brady in the playoffs. 2018 Houston handed over a team with Lamar Miller, Dandre Hopkins, Will Fuller to D. Watson, went to the playoffs.
Pretty much all of those QBs you listed had nothing going for the teams they joined, except for Trey Lance. He was anointed starter, broke his ankle and lost his job. I wish we had went after him this year to see what he could have done here, probably nothing, maybe something.
Cousins can't elevate a team with holes, he needs soo much to be ideal that you can see how other QBs can be successful at half the cost. He's 36, he is what he is. This team because of terrible drafts in 2020 (Gladney, Cleveland, Dantzler) 2021 (Surrat, Mond, Davis), and 2022 (Cine, Booth, Asamoah), has holes it needs to fill to be a real contender (2-3 pieces away). That is 6 defensive picks that were absolute busts from the top 3 rounds. That's a killer.
If you hit on half of them, your defense would be top 5 with many players still on rookie deal. THEN THE Cousins conversation would be different.
None of the teams that want a QB have the weapons we do (except maybe Atlanta).
So you're going to argue that the only reason Trubisky, McNown, Mayfield, etc failed is because they didn't have good receivers? C'mon.
Regarding those rookie QBs, Roethlisberger was not intended to start as a rookie. The Steelers had Tommy Maddox, a former 1st rounder who took the Steelers to the playoffs a year earlier and was named Comeback Player of the Year. Ben came in as a rookie only after two ineffective starts from Maddox.
Despite being a top 5 pick, Rivers was not the starter in San Diego until his 3rd season. Brees was the starter there. In fact the situation in San Diego argues my point that it's best to draft a QB when you have a stable veteran incumbent. Rivers was QB3 in San Diego as a rookie.
Will Fuller and Lamar Miller?
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
I'm starting to get the feeling that if they think Cousins can be signed and is healthy, they might not draft a QB in the Spring. They might take the top DT or another player with their pick in round 1. Not saying that will happen, but it could under the right circumstances.
I can only speak in likelihoods. It's likely they resign Cousins IMO. It's likely they draft a QB IMO. But none of this is for certain. Is there a hiccup in Cousins recovery? Is there a chance Cousins signs a longer-term deal than we're all thinking? Are the QBs we're targeting scooped up in front of us? Yeah, I think there are things that could see us go another direction.
I just don't think Minnesota wants to trade a bunch of comp to move up for a QB. If the top DT falls into their laps, I think they'll really have to think about it. I know they want to draft a QBOTF and need to, but it all depends on what their QB board looks like. Maybe the guy they are really excited about will be there for them or close to where they are so they can move up without giving up too much.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
I'm starting to get the feeling that if they think Cousins can be signed and is healthy, they might not draft a QB in the Spring. They might take the top DT or another player with their pick in round 1. Not saying that will happen, but it could under the right circumstances.
I can only speak in likelihoods. It's likely they resign Cousins IMO. It's likely they draft a QB IMO. But none of this is for certain. Is there a hiccup in Cousins recovery? Is there a chance Cousins signs a longer-term deal than we're all thinking? Are the QBs we're targeting scooped up in front of us? Yeah, I think there are things that could see us go another direction.
I just don't think Minnesota wants to trade a bunch of comp to move up for a QB. If the top DT falls into their laps, I think they'll really have to think about it. I know they want to draft a QBOTF and need to, but it all depends on what their QB board looks like. Maybe the guy they are really excited about will be there for them or close to where they are so they can move up without giving up too much.
It's possible we're all just thinking of this wrong. I guess it wouldn't surprise me too much if the Vikings signed Cousins to a long-term deal, a 3 or 4 year deal, and then just wait on drafting a QB. I mean the Packers signed Rodgers to a 3-year, $150M contract when he was 38. Cousins is only 35.
I think the Vikings are going to be in "go for it" mode this spring and maybe a starting interior pass rusher could make some sense in that case. But it just seems, considering the achilles, the depth of the QB class, where we'll be picking (likely a much higher pick than we'll see for a while), QB is the smart, take your medicine, move. Vikings have the money to add a top-level DT in free agency.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
Sign Kirk for 2 years. Draft a heir apparent. KOC's and KAM's job rest on the team winning games. That's why they'll resign him.
Identical to what I've been saying going into this season.
Unless Hall is progressing better than we know about, we're gonna be QB hunting in the draft. Dobbs...I hate to say this, but he has shown the weaknesses in some tendencies in the last couple of games, and I can't see him as more than the backup he's typically been. Mullens is meant to ride the pine, but is solid in that respect.
Kirk has proven that he knows how to condition, to heal from game abuse, and I'm certain that he's approaching his rehab the same way. I wouldn't give him a raise, but given that the "top QB pay range" is now hovering over $50 million per season (thanks, Herbert and Burrows...), giving him access to the same compensation he's recently gotten isn't market-unreasonable.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ AGRforever said:
Sign Kirk for 2 years. Draft a heir apparent. KOC's and KAM's job rest on the team winning games. That's why they'll resign him.
Could happen. I'm not sure why some on this board feel that signing Cousins is going to stop the team from drafting a QB?
Its not necessarily that, its that the money could be better spent on improving the roster for the future instead of what will likely be hindering the future cap by spreading the contract onto unplayed years as they have done with his current one. Also the types of deals he tends to push for handicap the team if they do decide to go a different direction before the deal is up.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe JA is wrong, and this is a fluke injury and has nothing to do with a lifetime of playing contact sports on am aging body, maybe Kirk is a super human and his body won't suffer the affects of repeated abuse, maybe Kirk is so in love with MN he agrees to a much smaller deal to allow the team to invest in better FAs than they've been able to previously with his deal to manage, maybe Kirk suddenly decides that huge guaranteed money and no trade clauses hurts the team he and wants to be a team first guy....maybe, but I think history is on my side on this one.
i think uou hit on it. im okay with bringing Kirk back, but it needs to be an incentive laden low risk deal for the Vikes or we’re walkinh.
If KOC loves Cousins so much, why wasn't he able to convince Kwesi to sign him in the off-season when they were in negotiations with Cousins and his Agent who tried to get Kwesi and the Vikings to commit to a contract extension? A healthy Kirk was too expensive and Kwesi has maintained wanting Roster and Cap flexibility. A torn Achilles Kirk and his contract demands is an unknown at this point. I think Kwesi has a number in his head that he is willing to pay and I have my doubts that it will be enough to secure Cousins for next year and beyond. March 15 is the start of Free Agency so we will know long before the draft if Cousins will be on this team or not.
Quote: @TBro said:
March 15 is the start of Free Agency so we will know long before the draft if Cousins will be on this team or not.
Yep, we should. Which is a positive. Time to pivot from a strategy if necessary.
Quote: @TBro said:
If KOC loves Cousins so much, why wasn't he able to convince Kwesi to sign him in the off-season when they were in negotiations with Cousins and his Agent who tried to get Kwesi and the Vikings to commit to a contract extension? A healthy Kirk was too expensive and Kwesi has maintained wanting Roster and Cap flexibility. A torn Achilles Kirk and his contract demands is an unknown at this point. I think Kwesi has a number in his head that he is willing to pay and I have my doubts that it will be enough to secure Cousins for next year and beyond. March 15 is the start of Free Agency so we will know long before the draft if Cousins will be on this team or not.
Because there was no need to. He was already under contract.
Look, everyone is jumping the gun on these contracts. Oh we have to extend JJ. Yes, but technically he's not even a free agent until 2025. We have to sign Darrisaw. Yes, but he's not a free agent until 2026. Someone just the other day put Addison on the list of big contracts to come.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ TBro said:
If KOC loves Cousins so much, why wasn't he able to convince Kwesi to sign him in the off-season when they were in negotiations with Cousins and his Agent who tried to get Kwesi and the Vikings to commit to a contract extension? A healthy Kirk was too expensive and Kwesi has maintained wanting Roster and Cap flexibility. A torn Achilles Kirk and his contract demands is an unknown at this point. I think Kwesi has a number in his head that he is willing to pay and I have my doubts that it will be enough to secure Cousins for next year and beyond. March 15 is the start of Free Agency so we will know long before the draft if Cousins will be on this team or not.
Because there was no need to. He was already under contract.
Look, everyone is jumping the gun on these contracts. Oh we have to extend JJ. Yes, but technically he's not even a free agent until 2025. We have to sign Darrisaw. Yes, but he's not a free agent until 2026. Someone just the other day put Addison on the list of big contracts to come.
You don't let your Franchise QB who you really want on the team make it to Free Agency. That would be a stupid business decision. I've said this before. The Vikings like Football Kirk, but the not the business side because he's become unaffordable when you have to build out the rest of the roster and get those extensions you mentioned taken care of. The longer you wait on those extensions, the more expensive they become.
KOC loves him some passing game as much as Zimmer loved his DB's.
Drafting offense in this era should pretty much harken us old timers back to the Denny Green era.
Hopefully the defense wont.
My point being, having the right triggerman for the future will very likely be a major priority for KAM/KOC this draft.
|
