Vikings still haven't scored a rushing TD?

[StickyBun]

Yikes.

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/viki...hdown-2023

Time to get that fixed. Along with redzone incompetence or there won't be a race to get back into contention.

[Guest]

Big problem.  Alot of teams have run plays for 3rd and 4 or less, I have not seen us run on 3rd unless its 1 yard, and we havent been good at that.  We are so desperate we are trying the shove with Kirk, who is not equipped.  

I have a problem with KOC on his run/pass ratio and lack of solid ideas on running the ball. Maybe not his thing.

People have been raving about his pass gameplan and It has been consistently great. 

[Guest]

@Bullazin said:
Big problem.  Alot of teams have run plays for 3rd and 4 or less, I have not seen us run on 3rd unless its 1 yard, and we havent been good at that.  We are so desperate we are trying the shove with Kirk, who is not equipped.  

I have a problem with KOC on his run/pass ratio and lack of solid ideas on running the ball. Maybe not his thing.

People have been raving about his pass gameplan and It has been consistently great. 

I didnt see how the end r/p ratio looked,  but that often gets skewed by end of game drives where a team is pass happy or run happy depending on what they want the clock to do,  but I think it was in the 3rd they showed that we had just about twice as many passes as run plays,  and that right there will certainly lead to a lack of run game production.  I would also like to see the breakdown of first down runs vs 2nd and 3rd ( with the short yardage runs taken out )  when the D really has no idea what is coming,  how often do we run?  Seems to me that we are run heavy on first down ( predictable) and then have to pass to get caught up with the chains.  Sounds like the Packers are really hurting, maybe this week would be a good one to try and make some changes to our run game philosophy and try and find something that would work.  our goal line efforts are fucking embarrassing.

[Guest]

JJ, Addison, and Hockenson are our 3 best weapons and they all get their work through receiving. Add the fact that KO is apparently better at designing successful pass plays over run plays and you could make an argument that even guys like KJO, Powell, or screen pass receivers are better options than the RBs we currently have. So I get why we're pass heavy.
All that said I do wish our run game could improve. But short of spending early-ish draft capital we don't have on an RB next spring, I'm not sure how great our options are for fixing the run game in 2024, let alone 2023.

[Guest]

These guys can't even get a tush-push right and y'all want a consistent running game???

I dont think it'll happen this year and its probably due to a variety of factors

The RB room is the weakest I can remember in a long while
This is not an OL that will excel at the run
 Passing is a drug KOC gets a mighty fix from 
 The best positional groups on the squad are WR and TE

 IT is what it is this year imo...It'll cost em games and it casts a bad light on the Oliver acquisition.

They cant be this one dimensional, especially in the red zone. 

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:
These guys can't even get a tush-push right and y'all want a consistent running game???

I dont think it'll happen this year and its probably due to a variety of factors

The RB room is the weakest I can remember in a long while
This is not an OL that will excel at the run
 Passing is a drug KOC gets a mighty fix from 
 The best positional groups on the squad are WR and TE

 IT is what it is this year imo...It'll cost em games and it casts a bad light on the Oliver acquisition.

They cant be this one dimensional, especially in the red zone. 

the tush push only works if the QB is adept at the sneak,  KC has no leg strength what so ever, watching Kirk try and run a sneak is like watching a baby duck smoke a cigarette.

and yes,  AM is no AD or Cook so it is weaker at RB1,  but I dont think we are as bad off as it looks,  our OL doesnt get any push,  they arent very good at opening holes,  and KOC doesnt dial up the run often enough for anybody to find a groove in running the ball.  You see how teams decide to run the ball against our D,  opposing OCs dont abandon their efforts when we get one stop,  they keep pounding away and wearing our boys down,  we dont do any of that,  couple that with KC being a pocket statue on passing plays,  our play calling does nothing to wear down opposing defenses front 7,  which again doesnt help the running game.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:


I didnt see how the end r/p ratio looked,  but that often gets skewed by end of game drives where a team is pass happy or run happy depending on what they want the clock to do,  but I think it was in the 3rd they showed that we had just about twice as many passes as run plays,  and that right there will certainly lead to a lack of run game production.  I would also like to see the breakdown of first down runs vs 2nd and 3rd ( with the short yardage runs taken out )  when the D really has no idea what is coming,  how often do we run?  Seems to me that we are run heavy on first down ( predictable) and then have to pass to get caught up with the chains.  Sounds like the Packers are really hurting, maybe this week would be a good one to try and make some changes to our run game philosophy and try and find something that would work.  our goal line efforts are fucking embarrassing.

280 pass compared to 134 Rushes.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/2023_splits.htm#all_down_distance_splits

Down & Yards to Go	Plays	Rushing Attempts	Passing Attempts
1st & 10	162	70	86
1st & >10	10	3	7
1st & <10	17	7	9
2nd & 1-3	25	9	16
2nd & 4-6	32	12	20
2nd & 7-9	34	10	21
2nd & 10+	50	10	40
3rd & 1-3	25	6	18
3rd & 4-6	24	1	19
3rd & 7-9	18		18
3rd & 10+	19	3	16
4th & 1-3	7	2	5
4th & 4-6	4		4
4th & 7-9	0
4th & 10+	2	1	1
3rd/4th & short	32	8	23

[Guest]

The only place it really looks even close to even is first down.  We pretty much don't run on 3rd down regardless of distance.

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@JimmyinSD said:


I didnt see how the end r/p ratio looked,  but that often gets skewed by end of game drives where a team is pass happy or run happy depending on what they want the clock to do,  but I think it was in the 3rd they showed that we had just about twice as many passes as run plays,  and that right there will certainly lead to a lack of run game production.  I would also like to see the breakdown of first down runs vs 2nd and 3rd ( with the short yardage runs taken out )  when the D really has no idea what is coming,  how often do we run?  Seems to me that we are run heavy on first down ( predictable) and then have to pass to get caught up with the chains.  Sounds like the Packers are really hurting, maybe this week would be a good one to try and make some changes to our run game philosophy and try and find something that would work.  our goal line efforts are fucking embarrassing.

280 pass compared to 134 Rushes.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/2023_splits.htm#all_down_distance_splits

Down & Yards to Go	Plays	Rushing Attempts	Passing Attempts
1st & 10	162	70	86
1st & >10	10	3	7
1st & <10	17	7	9
2nd & 1-3	25	9	16
2nd & 4-6	32	12	20
2nd & 7-9	34	10	21
2nd & 10+	50	10	40
3rd & 1-3	25	6	18
3rd & 4-6	24	1	19
3rd & 7-9	18		18
3rd & 10+	19	3	16
4th & 1-3	7	2	5
4th & 4-6	4		4
4th & 7-9	0
4th & 10+	2	1	1
3rd/4th & short	32	8	23

and there it is,  seems balancing that out a bit more would help both the run and pass game.  pass pro is a pain for OL,  run blocking is there chance to get even,  let the uglies get even once in a while.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:
the tush push only works if the QB is adept at the sneak,  KC has no leg strength what so ever, watching Kirk try and run a sneak is like watching a baby duck smoke a cigarette.

Good point and one of the reasons why it works for Philly so well as Hurts is said to have incredibly strong legs. I wonder why the Vikes would just take someone like Mattison or Ham to take the snap and do the sneak.