Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Akers looks better than Mattison because he's got a little burst. Mattison takes a bit to get up to speed and it allows defenders to close the gap/catch up. Been some big holes that have evaporated because the dump truck is stuck in 1st gear.
This was exactly why I said swapping Dalvin for Mattison was a mistake. He can't match the burst and is not close to being as good of a receiver. Dalvin may not be doing jack behind Breece Hall and a decimated Jets offensive line, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be doing more for the Vikings and be an upgrade to Mattison
dalvin at the money he wanted was not a viable option, you are not going to get value out of DC even if he was marginally better than Mattison. And AM has been a better pass catcher in the past, not sure whats fucked his head on catching the ball, but this is a new problem for him and shouldnt have been expected.
I think Cook would have been more productive in this offense than Mattison has been and losing the home run potential that was key in a handful of these one score wins last season would be missed (and it has been). What kind of value do you place on that? It might not have coincided with what the Vikings wanted to pay, but it doesn't mean it's not missed. I'm curious to see if Nwagwu can give us some juice in the run game not that he's cleared from IR.
Cook might have broke one, but he also would have led to more 3 and outs with his dancing behind the LOS which could have killed one of the scoring drives we had with Mattison. Its easy to think about coulda wouldas, but we let him walk for a reason and its showing in NY.
We are 30th in rushing offense averaging 75 yards a game. Zero rushing TD's on the year (one of only two teams), and have zero runs of 20+ yards. People want to know what's wrong with our offense this year? We can start with the lack of explosion in the running game and missing that element that Cook provided.
Also go back and look at how little KOC was running the ball some of those games. Sorry I am not on board with bringing cook back, its not his location that is the problem, hes done. Sure he might have a flash here or there, but when RBs start dancing, looking for homeruns instead of 4 yards, then they become a liability, positive yards ans first downs should be the priority first and if one of those runs breaks then great, but his game was declining 2 years ago and continued since.
Just my opinion but KOC comes from the Rams and that style offense has never prioritized the run. That played out last season with Cook, who despite that hit some big homeruns that were sorely needed in close games. You might be right that he is in decline, but even in decline he's a better player than Mattison. Mattison is the definition of taking the short run and gaining positive yards, but the big play element is just missing. When teams don't fear a running back breaking one on them, their job becomes a lot easier.
Remember Cook lead the league in zero or negative runs, that doesn't move the chains, 3 to 4 yard runs keep the O ahead of the chains. Using him more may have lead to more positive runs, but likely would have led to even more negative runs as well, some of that is on the OL or the system, but largely that was Cook looking for a bigger run when it wasn't there.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Akers looks better than Mattison because he's got a little burst. Mattison takes a bit to get up to speed and it allows defenders to close the gap/catch up. Been some big holes that have evaporated because the dump truck is stuck in 1st gear.
This was exactly why I said swapping Dalvin for Mattison was a mistake. He can't match the burst and is not close to being as good of a receiver. Dalvin may not be doing jack behind Breece Hall and a decimated Jets offensive line, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be doing more for the Vikings and be an upgrade to Mattison
dalvin at the money he wanted was not a viable option, you are not going to get value out of DC even if he was marginally better than Mattison. And AM has been a better pass catcher in the past, not sure whats fucked his head on catching the ball, but this is a new problem for him and shouldnt have been expected.
I think Cook would have been more productive in this offense than Mattison has been and losing the home run potential that was key in a handful of these one score wins last season would be missed (and it has been). What kind of value do you place on that? It might not have coincided with what the Vikings wanted to pay, but it doesn't mean it's not missed. I'm curious to see if Nwagwu can give us some juice in the run game not that he's cleared from IR.
Cook might have broke one, but he also would have led to more 3 and outs with his dancing behind the LOS which could have killed one of the scoring drives we had with Mattison. Its easy to think about coulda wouldas, but we let him walk for a reason and its showing in NY.
We are 30th in rushing offense averaging 75 yards a game. Zero rushing TD's on the year (one of only two teams), and have zero runs of 20+ yards. People want to know what's wrong with our offense this year? We can start with the lack of explosion in the running game and missing that element that Cook provided.
Also go back and look at how little KOC was running the ball some of those games. Sorry I am not on board with bringing cook back, its not his location that is the problem, hes done. Sure he might have a flash here or there, but when RBs start dancing, looking for homeruns instead of 4 yards, then they become a liability, positive yards ans first downs should be the priority first and if one of those runs breaks then great, but his game was declining 2 years ago and continued since.
Just my opinion but KOC comes from the Rams and that style offense has never prioritized the run. That played out last season with Cook, who despite that hit some big homeruns that were sorely needed in close games. You might be right that he is in decline, but even in decline he's a better player than Mattison. Mattison is the definition of taking the short run and gaining positive yards, but the big play element is just missing. When teams don't fear a running back breaking one on them, their job becomes a lot easier.
Remember Cook lead the league in zero or negative runs, that doesn't move the chains, 3 to 4 yard runs keep the O ahead of the chains. Using him more may have lead to more positive runs, but likely would have led to even more negative runs as well, some of that is on the OL or the system, but largely that was Cook looking for a bigger run when it wasn't there.
I don't think the offense suited his skill set at all and we know about the problems last season with our interior of Bradbury and Ingram struggling and Darrisaw missing time with concussions. We saw no stretch zone runs and he was hugely underutilized in the screen game. Still though, if it's all the same, I'd rather have the guy who's the threat to break some big ones like Cook did last season over the plodding short runs of Mattison
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
Akers looks better than Mattison because he's got a little burst. Mattison takes a bit to get up to speed and it allows defenders to close the gap/catch up. Been some big holes that have evaporated because the dump truck is stuck in 1st gear.
This was exactly why I said swapping Dalvin for Mattison was a mistake. He can't match the burst and is not close to being as good of a receiver. Dalvin may not be doing jack behind Breece Hall and a decimated Jets offensive line, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be doing more for the Vikings and be an upgrade to Mattison
dalvin at the money he wanted was not a viable option, you are not going to get value out of DC even if he was marginally better than Mattison. And AM has been a better pass catcher in the past, not sure whats fucked his head on catching the ball, but this is a new problem for him and shouldnt have been expected.
I think Cook would have been more productive in this offense than Mattison has been and losing the home run potential that was key in a handful of these one score wins last season would be missed (and it has been). What kind of value do you place on that? It might not have coincided with what the Vikings wanted to pay, but it doesn't mean it's not missed. I'm curious to see if Nwagwu can give us some juice in the run game not that he's cleared from IR.
Cook might have broke one, but he also would have led to more 3 and outs with his dancing behind the LOS which could have killed one of the scoring drives we had with Mattison. Its easy to think about coulda wouldas, but we let him walk for a reason and its showing in NY.
We are 30th in rushing offense averaging 75 yards a game. Zero rushing TD's on the year (one of only two teams), and have zero runs of 20+ yards. People want to know what's wrong with our offense this year? We can start with the lack of explosion in the running game and missing that element that Cook provided.
Also go back and look at how little KOC was running the ball some of those games. Sorry I am not on board with bringing cook back, its not his location that is the problem, hes done. Sure he might have a flash here or there, but when RBs start dancing, looking for homeruns instead of 4 yards, then they become a liability, positive yards ans first downs should be the priority first and if one of those runs breaks then great, but his game was declining 2 years ago and continued since.
Just my opinion but KOC comes from the Rams and that style offense has never prioritized the run. That played out last season with Cook, who despite that hit some big homeruns that were sorely needed in close games. You might be right that he is in decline, but even in decline he's a better player than Mattison. Mattison is the definition of taking the short run and gaining positive yards, but the big play element is just missing. When teams don't fear a running back breaking one on them, their job becomes a lot easier.
Ehh... so KO joined the Rams in 2020 so maybe HE doesn't prioritize the run (seems clear at this point), but McVay absolutely forcefed Gurley the ball with carries and receptions when Gurley was humming and arguably the best back in the league for a couple of years. Again that was prior to KO's arrival in LA but I wouldn't say the Rams don't run the ball. Heck, Kyren Williams has been getting tons of work this season for them, though he's dinged up now.
Unfortunately it does look like Cook might be washed, so I don't think he's an option. The time to do something was this past offseason when guys like Jamaal Williams, Raheem Mostert, Montgomery, etc were available. Or by drafting someone. Cook and Mattison were not the only two options. It's hard to see the future so I get why the team stuck with Mattison, it just hasn't worked out up to this point.
Last year, our running game struggled
a lot. When our passing game was
clicking and had defenses on their heels, then we could run, but when Kirk was
struggling or we needed to run a 4 minute offense and we needed our running
game to work on it’s own accord, they just couldn’t do it. I think the problem we’re having this year,
is that everything is struggling on offense, and our running game can’t take
advantage of a distracted defense. I do
think that running the ball has historically been an afterthought for KOC, and
that he realized that he needed it to be better last year, but hasn’t really
figured out how to get it installed at a high level.
Quote: @medaille said:
Last year, our running game struggled
a lot. When our passing game was
clicking and had defenses on their heels, then we could run, but when Kirk was
struggling or we needed to run a 4 minute offense and we needed our running
game to work on it’s own accord, they just couldn’t do it. I think the problem we’re having this year,
is that everything is struggling on offense, and our running game can’t take
advantage of a distracted defense. I do
think that running the ball has historically been an afterthought for KOC, and
that he realized that he needed it to be better last year, but hasn’t really
figured out how to get it installed at a high level.
our O has definitely been "pass to set up the run" orientated under KOC.
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