Quote: @TBro said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
https://sidelionreport.com/posts/recent-...nson-trade
Lions already claiming "victory" in Hockenson trade with Vikings for the same reasons I was saying it might have been a smarter play for the Vikings to sit tight and draft a guy in a historically deep TE draft crop..
Fully evaluating the "winner" and "loser" from an NFL trade with players and draft picks in it would usually take longer. Like after said draft picks become players, then said players have played some meaningful games. But the Hockenson deal can already be called as a win for the Lions.
What the hell kind of conclusion is that? We have an all pro TE that we will have to pay FMV and the Lions have two unknown draft picks, where is the win?
The win would be they didn't value him at the cost of paying him top 2 or 3 money, and we're able to parlay him into draft picks and drafted Sam LaPorta in the second round, who has reportedly been very impressive in camp, and have him on a rookie contract for the next four years.
I think the Vikings made the trade in an attempt to get over the hump last year and compete for the Super Bowl. It was a gamble that didn't pay off and now we are going to have to pay him big money....on top of trying to find money to pay Jefferson a record contract and eventually Darrisaw. Never mind the fact that we have no long term answer at QB unless we extend Kirk, which will be another big money contract. There's only so much pie to go around.
The way things are shaping up, we will have him this season and next under the Franchise Tag before we let him walk in 2025. He and his agent are delusional for thinking they can reset the TE market for a one dimensional pass catching Tight End. Oliver actually looks a lot more like a complete player at only $7 Million, Mundt is a fantastic number 2, and I hope they figure out a way to keep Muse who is shaping up to be a great receiving threat with some run after the catch abilities. If the Vikings season goes sideways, I suspect they will try to trade him at the deadline. His agent is well aware that the best chance to get the most money out of the Vikings was to get the deal done now before JJ's extension which is why they tried the soft holdout strategy, but all reports indicate they are not even close on money so unless his number comes down closer to $13 Million, I don't see it happening.
With Evan Engram and Kmet getting more than 13 mil per year earlier this off-season, we ain't getting Hock for that.
It's one reason I didn't understand waiting... it was only going to get more expensive once more data points were on the market. If Hock isn't worth paying top tier TE money, then we shouldn't have traded for him to begin with.
I'm not feeling real confident in Kwesi right now. Sounds like there were discussions with Jefferson's agent earlier this summer about doing an extension and then that fizzled. Now talks with Hock have fizzled... I'm not getting good vibes.
Wetlander,
The thread is too long for me to quote so here is my response. You make some very valid points.
| Player | Team | Age | Total
Value | Avg./Year | Total
Guaranteed | Fully
Guaranteed | Free
Agency |
|---|
| Darren Waller | Giants | 31 | $51,000,000 | $17,000,000 | $22,000,000 | $19,250,000 | 2027 UFA | | George Kittle | 49ers | 30 | $75,000,000 | $15,000,000 | $40,000,000 | $30,000,000 | 2026 Void | | Travis Kelce | Chiefs | 34 | $57,250,000 | $14,312,500 | $23,000,000 | $21,000,000 | 2026 UFA | | Dallas Goedert | Eagles | 28 | $57,000,000 | $14,250,000 | $35,127,549 | $14,877,549 | 2026 Void | | Mark Andrews | Ravens | 28 | $56,000,000 | $14,000,000 | $37,583,059 | $30,083,059 | 2026 UFA | | Evan Engram | Jaguars | 29 | $41,250,000 | $13,750,000 | $25,500,000 | $24,000,000 | 2026 Void | | David Njoku | Browns | 27 | $54,750,000 | $13,687,500 | $28,000,000 | $17,000,000 | 2026 Void | | Dawson Knox | Bills | 27 | $52,000,000 | $13,000,000 | $31,200,000 | $19,920,000 | 2027 UFA | | Hunter Henry | Patriots | 29 | $37,500,000 | $12,500,000 | $25,000,000 | $25,000,000 | 2024 UFA | | Cole Kmet | Bears | 24 | $50,000,000 | $12,500,000 | $32,793,000 | $22,893,000 | 2028 UFA | | Zach Ertz | Cardinals | 33 | $31,650,000 | $10,550,000 | $17,500,000 | $14,500,000 | 2025 Void | | Taysom Hill | Saints | 33 | $40,000,000 | $10,000,000 | $21,500,000 | $10,100,000 | 2026 Void | |
I'm sharing your concern over Kwesi's handling of the contracts that need to get done. I think we could make a separate thread about that and his overall decision making regarding the draft as well.
I posted the top 12 TE's above in Compensation. When I said closer to $13 Million, I didn't mean literally $13 Million but something closer to $13M vs. Waller's $17M. However, Mark Andrews to me is a good comparison based on Age and the 4 year extension he signed this time last year. His stats are better than TJ's and he is a better blocker and more complete TE than TJ. The question I have is what did Kwesi and Vikings know about TJ and his Agent's contract demands and when did they know it before making the trade?
The Lions received our 2nd in 2023 and our 3rd in 2024 while the Vikings received Hockenson, the Lions' 2023 4th rounder which we traded to Kansas City for their 4th in 2023(Jay Ward), and their 4th in 2024 because the Vikings didn't win their playoff game against the Giants which would have turned it into their 5th.
A lot to unpack here, but the Vikings intention to sign TJ to an extension may have changed in the offseason after they signed Oliver at a much lower cost than what TJ and his agent are demanding. If they let him walk after the 2024 season(assuming he plays under the Franchise Tag), they will also get a comp pick to help mitigate the cost of the trade. I think Oliver's camp performance has really opened their eyes after getting all the first team reps, plus they have depth in Mundt, and Muse is looking like another great find if they can create a spot for him. Just like the 49ers plans changed when Purdy surprised everyone with his performance last year which ended the Trey Lance experiment despite giving up three 1sts and a 3rd to Miami. JJ's contract will be historic, and I don't see any way the Vikings can let Kirk walk out the door next year and absorb a $28.5 Million Dead Cap Hit so that has to be factoring into a lot of contract stuff that needs to be sorted out.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
https://sidelionreport.com/posts/recent-...nson-trade
Lions already claiming "victory" in Hockenson trade with Vikings for the same reasons I was saying it might have been a smarter play for the Vikings to sit tight and draft a guy in a historically deep TE draft crop..
Fully evaluating the "winner" and "loser" from an NFL trade with players and draft picks in it would usually take longer. Like after said draft picks become players, then said players have played some meaningful games. But the Hockenson deal can already be called as a win for the Lions.
What the hell kind of conclusion is that? We have an all pro TE that we will have to pay FMV and the Lions have two unknown draft picks, where is the win?
The win would be they didn't value him at the cost of paying him top 2 or 3 money, and we're able to parlay him into draft picks and drafted Sam LaPorta in the second round, who has reportedly been very impressive in camp, and have him on a rookie contract for the next four years.
I think the Vikings made the trade in an attempt to get over the hump last year and compete for the Super Bowl. It was a gamble that didn't pay off and now we are going to have to pay him big money....on top of trying to find money to pay Jefferson a record contract and eventually Darrisaw. Never mind the fact that we have no long term answer at QB unless we extend Kirk, which will be another big money contract. There's only so much pie to go around.
LaPorta has had a good camp which means what...nothing when the lights come on! We have to pay, and the Lions would have had to pay, Top money for a Top TE..shocking! We sign Hock for Top Money and next year it will be the equivalent of Top 5-10 money and if he plays like a Top 5 money we win easily. CAP keeps going up and as each top player at a position sets the market the following year it suddenly becomes a very reasonable contract if they perform.
Granted, if Hock sucks the next few years and we are paying him top money we lose. But way too early to give anyone a win or loss based a guy that looks good in camp - IMO.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
https://sidelionreport.com/posts/recent-...nson-trade
Lions already claiming "victory" in Hockenson trade with Vikings for the same reasons I was saying it might have been a smarter play for the Vikings to sit tight and draft a guy in a historically deep TE draft crop..
Fully evaluating the "winner" and "loser" from an NFL trade with players and draft picks in it would usually take longer. Like after said draft picks become players, then said players have played some meaningful games. But the Hockenson deal can already be called as a win for the Lions.
What the hell kind of conclusion is that? We have an all pro TE that we will have to pay FMV and the Lions have two unknown draft picks, where is the win?
The win would be they didn't value him at the cost of paying him top 2 or 3 money, and we're able to parlay him into draft picks and drafted Sam LaPorta in the second round, who has reportedly been very impressive in camp, and have him on a rookie contract for the next four years.
I think the Vikings made the trade in an attempt to get over the hump last year and compete for the Super Bowl. It was a gamble that didn't pay off and now we are going to have to pay him big money....on top of trying to find money to pay Jefferson a record contract and eventually Darrisaw. Never mind the fact that we have no long term answer at QB unless we extend Kirk, which will be another big money contract. There's only so much pie to go around.
LaPorta has had a good camp which means what...nothing when the lights come on! We have to pay, and the Lions would have had to pay, Top money for a Top TE..shocking! We sign Hock for Top Money and next year it will be the equivalent of Top 5-10 money and if he plays like a Top 5 money we win easily. CAP keeps going up and as each top player at a position sets the market the following year it suddenly becomes a very reasonable contract if they perform.
Granted, if Hock sucks the next few years and we are paying him top money we lose. But way too early to give anyone a win or loss based a guy that looks good in camp - IMO.
It's just about money allocation, not that Hock isn't a really good TE. The Lions did not want to pay a huge TE contract because it didn't figure into their rebuild. The huge contract is now the Vikings issue to deal with and that's fine, but when you have these other huge contract on the horizon it makes me wonder if we can do it without crippling the rest of the roster. The salary cap is set to where you can only have so many stars making huge money. It's exactly why the Chiefs were forced to move Tyreek Hill.
How much influence does Rob Brzezinski have in this, I was of the impression he played a strategic role in managing cap money?
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
https://sidelionreport.com/posts/recent-...nson-trade
Lions already claiming "victory" in Hockenson trade with Vikings for the same reasons I was saying it might have been a smarter play for the Vikings to sit tight and draft a guy in a historically deep TE draft crop..
Fully evaluating the "winner" and "loser" from an NFL trade with players and draft picks in it would usually take longer. Like after said draft picks become players, then said players have played some meaningful games. But the Hockenson deal can already be called as a win for the Lions.
What the hell kind of conclusion is that? We have an all pro TE that we will have to pay FMV and the Lions have two unknown draft picks, where is the win?
The win would be they didn't value him at the cost of paying him top 2 or 3 money, and we're able to parlay him into draft picks and drafted Sam LaPorta in the second round, who has reportedly been very impressive in camp, and have him on a rookie contract for the next four years.
I think the Vikings made the trade in an attempt to get over the hump last year and compete for the Super Bowl. It was a gamble that didn't pay off and now we are going to have to pay him big money....on top of trying to find money to pay Jefferson a record contract and eventually Darrisaw. Never mind the fact that we have no long term answer at QB unless we extend Kirk, which will be another big money contract. There's only so much pie to go around.
LaPorta has had a good camp which means what...nothing when the lights come on! We have to pay, and the Lions would have had to pay, Top money for a Top TE..shocking! We sign Hock for Top Money and next year it will be the equivalent of Top 5-10 money and if he plays like a Top 5 money we win easily. CAP keeps going up and as each top player at a position sets the market the following year it suddenly becomes a very reasonable contract if they perform.
Granted, if Hock sucks the next few years and we are paying him top money we lose. But way too early to give anyone a win or loss based a guy that looks good in camp - IMO.
It's just about money allocation, not that Hock isn't a really good TE. The Lions did not want to pay a huge TE contract because it didn't figure into their rebuild. The huge contract is now the Vikings issue to deal with and that's fine, but when you have these other huge contract on the horizon it makes me wonder if we can do it without crippling the rest of the roster. The salary cap is set to where you can only have so many stars making huge money. It's exactly why the Chiefs were forced to move Tyreek Hill.
Good point but still way too early to declare a winner. I would say it is a win/win right now.
Quote: @savannahskol said:
Earache? Earache, my eye!
This shit better get worked out before I take Hock in the second round of my FF drafts.
Take Darren Waller instead. Then Irv Smith Jr in the last round. Thank me later.
Reportedly signed his extension. Details to be released, but expected to be amongst the highest paid TE's in the league per Rapsheet
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Reportedly signed his extension. Details to be released, but expected to be amongst the highest paid TE's in the league per Rapsheet
Highest paid TE.....highest paid WRer.....soon to be highest paid LT. Meanwhile, back on the defense:
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media3.giphy.com/media/3FcmisopTbOpO/giphy.gif)
And is there really room to extend Cousins or are we going with a rookie QB.
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