Quote: @supafreak84 said:
This was Zimmers problem, great coach up until the covid year and I don't think that's disputable. 2020 was a weird season, and his best defensive player and the straw that stirred the drink, Danielle Hunter, never even played a down on top of Linval Joseph amd Everson Gruffin both leaving in free agency. Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes (starting corners) also left in free agency. Zimm had to once again replace his offensive coordinator when Stefanski took the Browns job. We had a predictably bad season and finished 7-9
2021 we lose a record number of one score games, and Hunter is hurt once again. Zimmer had to replace another OC as Gary Kubiak retired. I can't even count the number of OC's Zimmer had to replace during his tenure. We finish 8-9
Then he gets fired mostly due to frayed relationships within the organization after two down seasons.
he had a belicheat attitude, without the hardware to back it up.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
This was Zimmers problem, great coach up until the covid year and I don't think that's disputable. 2020 was a weird season, and his best defensive player and the straw that stirred the drink, Danielle Hunter, never even played a down on top of Linval Joseph amd Everson Gruffin both leaving in free agency. Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes (starting corners) also left in free agency. Zimm had to once again replace his offensive coordinator when Stefanski took the Browns job. We had a predictably bad season and finished 7-9
2021 we lose a record number of one score games, and Hunter is hurt once again. Zimmer had to replace another OC as Gary Kubiak retired. I can't even count the number of OC's Zimmer had to replace during his tenure. We finish 8-9
Then he gets fired mostly due to frayed relationships within the organization after two down seasons.
Zimmer was a great defensive mind. And yeah, I think the covid craziness cemented his decline. But the biggest issue for him was being a defensive coach and having to replace the OC every year. Stephanski and Shurmur were the only real standouts and they went away after 1 year. That disruption of the offense was the insurmountable task.
Zimmer was objectively a good but not great head coach. His worst seasons were 7-9 seasons and he had
gotten into the playoffs multiple times, but couldn’t go further. His .562 winning percentage is objectively
good. I know there are some people who think that
every coach without a Lombardi is dog shit, but those people are bitter souls.
His teams had a minimum of mental mistakes. I think they were usually well prepared and
players rarely looked around in confusion, a stark contrast to what we saw last
year on defense. His players knew what was
expected of them, and criticism was mostly just. That said, he wasn’t going to be able to win
a SB. This is an offensive league that is
won by top shelf QBs, and his unwillingness to cultivate a productive
relationship with his QB and offensive staff was always going to be his
downfall. You can’t be a head coach and
just let the offense handle itself.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
This was Zimmers problem, great coach up until the covid year and I don't think that's disputable. 2020 was a weird season, and his best defensive player and the straw that stirred the drink, Danielle Hunter, never even played a down on top of Linval Joseph amd Everson Gruffin both leaving in free agency. Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes (starting corners) also left in free agency. Zimm had to once again replace his offensive coordinator when Stefanski took the Browns job. We had a predictably bad season and finished 7-9
2021 we lose a record number of one score games, and Hunter is hurt once again. Zimmer had to replace another OC as Gary Kubiak retired. I can't even count the number of OC's Zimmer had to replace during his tenure. We finish 8-9
Then he gets fired mostly due to frayed relationships within the organization after two down seasons.
Zimmer was a great defensive mind. And yeah, I think the covid craziness cemented his decline. But the biggest issue for him was being a defensive coach and having to replace the OC every year. Stephanski and Shurmur were the only real standouts and they went away after 1 year. That disruption of the offense was the insurmountable task.
Totally agree with you. The covid season coincided with losing some really key veteran pieces on defense. We were starting the process of "paying the piper" for our window the previous four years. Shuffling of OC's every year was the nail in the coffin for Zimm.
I think we could see the same with KOC on defense. If Flores has any kind of success, he'll be one and done and we will be looking for our 3rd DC in three seasons. Welcome to the club Kevin!
Zim was not emotionally or temperamentally suited to the job of HC and that was evident by 2016. His ceiling is DC.
Quote: @comet52 said:
Zim was not emotionally or temperamentally suited to the job of HC and that was evident by 2016. His ceiling is DC.
agree, I think his issue with Mond was mostly that he wasnt a defensive player and that Zim desperately needed fresh blood for his schemes to work by Rick needed to stop ignoring the O too.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
This was Zimmers problem, great coach up until the covid year and I don't think that's disputable. 2020 was a weird season, and his best defensive player and the straw that stirred the drink, Danielle Hunter, never even played a down on top of Linval Joseph amd Everson Gruffin both leaving in free agency. Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes (starting corners) also left in free agency. Zimm had to once again replace his offensive coordinator when Stefanski took the Browns job. We had a predictably bad season and finished 7-9
2021 we lose a record number of one score games, and Hunter is hurt once again. Zimmer had to replace another OC as Gary Kubiak retired. I can't even count the number of OC's Zimmer had to replace during his tenure. We finish 8-9
Then he gets fired mostly due to frayed relationships within the organization after two down seasons.
Zimmer was a great defensive mind. And yeah, I think the covid craziness cemented his decline. But the biggest issue for him was being a defensive coach and having to replace the OC every year. Stephanski and Shurmur were the only real standouts and they went away after 1 year. That disruption of the offense was the insurmountable task.
Totally agree with you. The covid season coincided with losing some really key veteran pieces on defense. We were starting the process of "paying the piper" for our window the previous four years. Shuffling of OC's every year was the nail in the coffin for Zimm.
I think we could see the same with KOC on defense. If Flores has any kind of success, he'll be one and done and we will be looking for our 3rd DC in three seasons. Welcome to the club Kevin!
Yeah, losing his top 3 corners definitely changed what he could do on D.
But I don't think defensive coordinators are as attractive as head coaches now and it seems easier to replace IMO.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
This was Zimmers problem, great coach up until the covid year and I don't think that's disputable. 2020 was a weird season, and his best defensive player and the straw that stirred the drink, Danielle Hunter, never even played a down on top of Linval Joseph amd Everson Gruffin both leaving in free agency. Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes (starting corners) also left in free agency. Zimm had to once again replace his offensive coordinator when Stefanski took the Browns job. We had a predictably bad season and finished 7-9
2021 we lose a record number of one score games, and Hunter is hurt once again. Zimmer had to replace another OC as Gary Kubiak retired. I can't even count the number of OC's Zimmer had to replace during his tenure. We finish 8-9
Then he gets fired mostly due to frayed relationships within the organization after two down seasons.
Zimmer was a great defensive mind. And yeah, I think the covid craziness cemented his decline. But the biggest issue for him was being a defensive coach and having to replace the OC every year. Stephanski and Shurmur were the only real standouts and they went away after 1 year. That disruption of the offense was the insurmountable task.
Totally agree with you. The covid season coincided with losing some really key veteran pieces on defense. We were starting the process of "paying the piper" for our window the previous four years. Shuffling of OC's every year was the nail in the coffin for Zimm.
I think we could see the same with KOC on defense. If Flores has any kind of success, he'll be one and done and we will be looking for our 3rd DC in three seasons. Welcome to the club Kevin!
Yeah, losing his top 3 corners definitely changed what he could do on D.
But I don't think defensive coordinators are as attractive as head coaches now and it seems easier to replace IMO.
That and without Hunter (two years injured), Everson, and Linval Joseph we had no semblance of a pass rush to protect the back end. It was like a perfect storm of events and our usually stout defense under Zimm quickly went in the shitter.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Bullazin said:
Another case in point. Mike Zimmer was a damn decent head coach. He had weaknesses that helped keep this team from going as far as they should, and he had run his course here as the guy that wasnt going to get us to the top, but the bashing of him like he sucks is just fanatic bullshit.
his clock/game management was not good, his relationship with the O was not good, his relationship with the ST guys not good, I dont think he worked the refs very well, and his relationship with the media was shit ( but I give him a thumbs up for trying, pretty sure I would have fared about as bad ) like I said, he was a great D coach, but after that he wasnt much to write home about. Other than running a solid D when all the talent was there, what do you think he did a good job of while he was in MN?
I believe the issues you raise here are certainly valid. I think you had access I never came close to. Zim had cred coming in with his defensive record, had paid all his dues, he had support of prime, who of course was the best ever at corner. He was a hardass old school coach that rubbed certain players wrong especially when shit wasnt going right. But he also had guys that would run through a wall for him. @supa mentioned about his roster luck and such, he reportedly ran Carlson off and wasnt especially good with relationships. Bottom line though he had a good record and got teams to the playoffs and held it together until his handpicked d guys aged out.
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