Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.
December 2022
Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach? Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.
So....it almost sounds like you're saying Ingram was bad last year. B)
I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)
The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns.
![[Image: 2dvieg4yycvh.png]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/ms/2dvieg4yycvh.png)
I expect improvement but how much is really needed by the whole interior to go from Kirk getting hit the 4th most to middle of the pack?? I guess my point is improvement is expected when you are essentially at the bottom. I'm not sure where he ended up but I read that Ingram was on pace for the most QB pressures by a Guard since they started recording in 2009. He was on pace for 68 which would have been the record. I think he ended up with 62/63 so not sure how he ended up.
Dunno, but I don't think he got there. He improved later in the season. He had four games in a row between week 5 and week 9 where his pass blocking grade was 31, 36, 16 and 48. That has to be some kind of record for ineptitude.
However, after that stretch, his pass blocking grade fell below 50 only once, and he had three games over 70, one over 80.
This is the hope--that he was showing improvement over time and will become serviceable. It seems the "wait 3 years before you know if a guy was a good pick" thing is out the window with Ingram for most people. I don't think he has nearly as many ? marks as say, Andrew Booth Jr. That guy is teetering on the edge of Bustville, but Ingram, I'm willing to wait another year or two and see what happens.
Quote: @comet52 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.
December 2022
Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach? Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.
So....it almost sounds like you're saying Ingram was bad last year. B)
I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)
The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns.
I expect improvement but how much is really needed by the whole interior to go from Kirk getting hit the 4th most to middle of the pack?? I guess my point is improvement is expected when you are essentially at the bottom. I'm not sure where he ended up but I read that Ingram was on pace for the most QB pressures by a Guard since they started recording in 2009. He was on pace for 68 which would have been the record. I think he ended up with 62/63 so not sure how he ended up.
Dunno, but I don't think he got there. He improved later in the season. He had four games in a row between week 5 and week 9 where his pass blocking grade was 31, 36, 16 and 48. That has to be some kind of record for ineptitude.
However, after that stretch, his pass blocking grade fell below 50 only once, and he had three games over 70, one over 80.
This is the hope--that he was showing improvement over time and will become serviceable. It seems the "wait 3 years before you know if a guy was a good pick" thing is out the window with Ingram for most people. I don't think he has nearly as many ? marks as say, Andrew Booth Jr. That guy is teetering on the edge of Bustville, but Ingram, I'm willing to wait another year or two and see what happens.
Let's hope Kirk or any of our QB's can withstand the time needed for Igram to improve from basically being a bottom 5 G in football.
Are we sure he really improved, or did it have anything to do with who he was going up against? Don't know, just something to consider.
If Ingram has another poor showing this week, I think we need to reach out to Risner to get him acclimated ASAP or at the minimum as Maroon points out, get Brandel in there.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ comet52 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.
December 2022
Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach? Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.
So....it almost sounds like you're saying Ingram was bad last year. B)
I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)
The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns.
I expect improvement but how much is really needed by the whole interior to go from Kirk getting hit the 4th most to middle of the pack?? I guess my point is improvement is expected when you are essentially at the bottom. I'm not sure where he ended up but I read that Ingram was on pace for the most QB pressures by a Guard since they started recording in 2009. He was on pace for 68 which would have been the record. I think he ended up with 62/63 so not sure how he ended up.
Dunno, but I don't think he got there. He improved later in the season. He had four games in a row between week 5 and week 9 where his pass blocking grade was 31, 36, 16 and 48. That has to be some kind of record for ineptitude.
However, after that stretch, his pass blocking grade fell below 50 only once, and he had three games over 70, one over 80.
This is the hope--that he was showing improvement over time and will become serviceable. It seems the "wait 3 years before you know if a guy was a good pick" thing is out the window with Ingram for most people. I don't think he has nearly as many ? marks as say, Andrew Booth Jr. That guy is teetering on the edge of Bustville, but Ingram, I'm willing to wait another year or two and see what happens.
Let's hope Kirk or any of our QB's can withstand the time needed for Igram to improve from basically being a bottom 5 G in football.
Are we sure he really improved, or did it have anything to do with who he was going up against? Don't know, just something to consider.
If Ingram has another poor showing this week, I think we need to reach out to Risner to get him acclimated ASAP or at the minimum as Maroon points out, get Brandel in there.
Brandel is already working as a guard. So they seem to have a plan for that worst case scenerio.
It pisses me off how weak the Viking O-line interior is.....
![[Image: dammit-damn.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/Dne0Xom0BLQAAAAd/dammit-damn.gif)
Quote: @StickyBun said:
It pisses me off how weak the Viking O-line interior is.....
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
It pisses me off how weak the Viking O-line interior is.....
I STILL cringe thinking Bradbury was taken one pick ahead of Jefferey Simmons. UGH!
That clip is going to haunt Bradbury's twitter feed all year. But in the 11 on 11 clips I saw it was a pretty good matchup with Tart and Simmons winning their share, but Bradbury and the IOL winning a fair amount too. In fact, Tart was thrown out of practice after he threw a punch at Bradbury who threw Tart to the ground after a standoff. Be fun to watch these two go at it Saturday...if'n KOC plays any starters.
Quote: @1VikesFan said:
He's another guy who couldn't anchor, so not surprised to hear him trying to defend Bradbury
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