Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
KOC is trying to replicate the Ram formula to a tee. 3-4 defense-check, quarterback dominate throw the ball all over the field offense-check, running back by committee and essentially an afterthought-check. You could not flip a team more from what they were if you tried. We went from a defense dominant 4-3, a ball control run dominant offense that utilized play action as a strength, to all the changes we have become.
Those days were a few years gone when KOC got hear. I loved Zimmer's D, but without intelligent, decent DBs, his defense wasn't holding up. And the dominant offense wasn't there either.
IMO it was the DL that made Zimmers D flow, especially the interior DL that made running the ball very difficult early on when LJ was still in his prime, teams that abandoned the run then had to deal with a relentless pass rush from Griff and BRob, as well as those blitzes that Zim liked to send. Yes the DBs were better, but their job was made much easier by the work of that front 4-6/7.
Pass rush and coverage go hand in hand. Having DBs that could understand his route matching coverage and play within the scheme meant he could dial up different pressures. Having DEs that could get after the QB in different ways made the DBs job easier, or at least shorter.
Having LJ up front on early downs made it that much more fun on 3rd and long. They all worked together. But the dam busted when he lost X, Waynes and Mac all the same year.
I would argue they never did an adequate job replacing Shariff Floyd.
and Floyd never did an adequate job of replacing KWill.
Our IDL has been a Qmark since the Williams wall fell down. LJ was a good player for a couple years, but other than that our IDL has been a major issue for quite a while.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
I don’t know how much of it is modeling the rams, and how
much of it is just the way the league as a whole is trending. The RB position as a whole is just dramatically
devalued and there’s big names still unsigned.
RBs seem more likely to get dinged and miss time, their careers are typically shorter than other positions, and the difference between a top guy and the next tier down in money is not enough to justify the cap space unless you are flush with cap and really need a RB. A team that has as many holes as the Vikings do cant justify paying top tier RB money when their defense cant really put them into a position to try and win with a running game.
But then how do we justify giving a blocking TE with almost zero receiving stats, a 21 million dollar contract as our first order of free agency? Lol. Why not just use that money to retain Dalvin Cook, who does more for this offense, and honor the contract we signed him to? I just think if we are trying to compete this year, it makes zero sense to get rid of Dalvin Cook, and that's the sentiment of a lot of smart people I've heard on NFL Radio talking about it the last few weeks.
I never said that made sense, but if you think that guy will enhance a running game, then he brings value to all parts of that running game, not just Cook so maybe there is a bigger plan in place? I dont think we are going to compete this year with or without Cook, but if you think a TE can help you long term, at that point in the future where the D is rounded into place, then I have no issue with the signing, nor any issue with moving on from Cook who is likely at the pinnacle of his game and wont likely be able to maintain this level of play.
I just think if the plan is to run the ball better, then it makes all the sense in the world to bring back your best running back instead of blowing money on a blocking TE. If the choice was between bringing back Davin Cook or spending money on a blocking TE, then bringing back Cook is the logical answer. So again it goes back to, does this front office really know what they are doing and have a plan? Are we trying to make a playoff run this year or are we not?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
KOC is trying to replicate the Ram formula to a tee. 3-4 defense-check, quarterback dominate throw the ball all over the field offense-check, running back by committee and essentially an afterthought-check. You could not flip a team more from what they were if you tried. We went from a defense dominant 4-3, a ball control run dominant offense that utilized play action as a strength, to all the changes we have become.
Those days were a few years gone when KOC got hear. I loved Zimmer's D, but without intelligent, decent DBs, his defense wasn't holding up. And the dominant offense wasn't there either.
IMO it was the DL that made Zimmers D flow, especially the interior DL that made running the ball very difficult early on when LJ was still in his prime, teams that abandoned the run then had to deal with a relentless pass rush from Griff and BRob, as well as those blitzes that Zim liked to send. Yes the DBs were better, but their job was made much easier by the work of that front 4-6/7.
Pass rush and coverage go hand in hand. Having DBs that could understand his route matching coverage and play within the scheme meant he could dial up different pressures. Having DEs that could get after the QB in different ways made the DBs job easier, or at least shorter.
Having LJ up front on early downs made it that much more fun on 3rd and long. They all worked together. But the dam busted when he lost X, Waynes and Mac all the same year.
I would argue they never did an adequate job replacing Shariff Floyd.
and Floyd never did an adequate job of replacing KWill.
Our IDL has been a Qmark since the Williams wall fell down. LJ was a good player for a couple years, but other than that our IDL has been a major issue for quite a while.
I agree although I think Sheldon Richardson did a nice job the first time we brought him in..
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
KOC is trying to replicate the Ram formula to a tee. 3-4 defense-check, quarterback dominate throw the ball all over the field offense-check, running back by committee and essentially an afterthought-check. You could not flip a team more from what they were if you tried. We went from a defense dominant 4-3, a ball control run dominant offense that utilized play action as a strength, to all the changes we have become.
Those days were a few years gone when KOC got hear. I loved Zimmer's D, but without intelligent, decent DBs, his defense wasn't holding up. And the dominant offense wasn't there either.
IMO it was the DL that made Zimmers D flow, especially the interior DL that made running the ball very difficult early on when LJ was still in his prime, teams that abandoned the run then had to deal with a relentless pass rush from Griff and BRob, as well as those blitzes that Zim liked to send. Yes the DBs were better, but their job was made much easier by the work of that front 4-6/7.
Pass rush and coverage go hand in hand. Having DBs that could understand his route matching coverage and play within the scheme meant he could dial up different pressures. Having DEs that could get after the QB in different ways made the DBs job easier, or at least shorter.
Having LJ up front on early downs made it that much more fun on 3rd and long. They all worked together. But the dam busted when he lost X, Waynes and Mac all the same year.
I would argue they never did an adequate job replacing Shariff Floyd.
and Floyd never did an adequate job of replacing KWill.
Our IDL has been a Qmark since the Williams wall fell down. LJ was a good player for a couple years, but other than that our IDL has been a major issue for quite a while.
I agree although I think Sheldon Richardson did a nice job the first time we brought him in..
he was ok at best, he filled the position, but he didnt make me forget about KWill, or the need to be looking for DT help.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
I don’t know how much of it is modeling the rams, and how
much of it is just the way the league as a whole is trending. The RB position as a whole is just dramatically
devalued and there’s big names still unsigned.
RBs seem more likely to get dinged and miss time, their careers are typically shorter than other positions, and the difference between a top guy and the next tier down in money is not enough to justify the cap space unless you are flush with cap and really need a RB. A team that has as many holes as the Vikings do cant justify paying top tier RB money when their defense cant really put them into a position to try and win with a running game.
But then how do we justify giving a blocking TE with almost zero receiving stats, a 21 million dollar contract as our first order of free agency? Lol. Why not just use that money to retain Dalvin Cook, who does more for this offense, and honor the contract we signed him to? I just think if we are trying to compete this year, it makes zero sense to get rid of Dalvin Cook, and that's the sentiment of a lot of smart people I've heard on NFL Radio talking about it the last few weeks.
I never said that made sense, but if you think that guy will enhance a running game, then he brings value to all parts of that running game, not just Cook so maybe there is a bigger plan in place? I dont think we are going to compete this year with or without Cook, but if you think a TE can help you long term, at that point in the future where the D is rounded into place, then I have no issue with the signing, nor any issue with moving on from Cook who is likely at the pinnacle of his game and wont likely be able to maintain this level of play.
I just think if the plan is to run the ball better, then it makes all the sense in the world to bring back your best running back instead of blowing money on a blocking TE. If the choice was between bringing back Davin Cook or spending money on a blocking TE, then bringing back Cook is the logical answer. So again it goes back to, does this front office really know what they are doing and have a plan? Are we trying to make a playoff run this year or are we not?
I just think they made their efforts to rework his deal, when that wasnt possible they decided to go RBBC and get a guy that will make any RB better. If this guy is as advertised and can elevate a running game, then why not get that for any RB you put back there, for the next few years, instead of putting all your eggs in one aging basket?
as far as the plan... I dont see it yet, but since I cant do anything about it, and bitching hasnt helped yet, I am kind of just saying.... whatever, I guess.
Our new blocking TE is just as much about the passing game
as it is about the running game. It’s
about making the defense switch to bigger, slower personnel groups. Cousins, historically, has also thrived in 2 TE
systems. His price is a hard sell, can’t
argue that.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
I don’t know how much of it is modeling the rams, and how
much of it is just the way the league as a whole is trending. The RB position as a whole is just dramatically
devalued and there’s big names still unsigned.
RBs seem more likely to get dinged and miss time, their careers are typically shorter than other positions, and the difference between a top guy and the next tier down in money is not enough to justify the cap space unless you are flush with cap and really need a RB. A team that has as many holes as the Vikings do cant justify paying top tier RB money when their defense cant really put them into a position to try and win with a running game.
250 lb athletes are flying to the ball and hitting backs in motion. What a brutal beating backs are taking.
Quote: @Bullazin said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
I don’t know how much of it is modeling the rams, and how
much of it is just the way the league as a whole is trending. The RB position as a whole is just dramatically
devalued and there’s big names still unsigned.
RBs seem more likely to get dinged and miss time, their careers are typically shorter than other positions, and the difference between a top guy and the next tier down in money is not enough to justify the cap space unless you are flush with cap and really need a RB. A team that has as many holes as the Vikings do cant justify paying top tier RB money when their defense cant really put them into a position to try and win with a running game.
250 lb athletes are flying to the ball and hitting backs in motion. What a brutal beating backs are taking.
they make a career of beating after beating, its no wonder they peak so early and break down so fast.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
KOC is trying to replicate the Ram formula to a tee. 3-4 defense-check, quarterback dominate throw the ball all over the field offense-check, running back by committee and essentially an afterthought-check. You could not flip a team more from what they were if you tried. We went from a defense dominant 4-3, a ball control run dominant offense that utilized play action as a strength, to all the changes we have become.
Those days were a few years gone when KOC got hear. I loved Zimmer's D, but without intelligent, decent DBs, his defense wasn't holding up. And the dominant offense wasn't there either.
IMO it was the DL that made Zimmers D flow, especially the interior DL that made running the ball very difficult early on when LJ was still in his prime, teams that abandoned the run then had to deal with a relentless pass rush from Griff and BRob, as well as those blitzes that Zim liked to send. Yes the DBs were better, but their job was made much easier by the work of that front 4-6/7.
Pass rush and coverage go hand in hand. Having DBs that could understand his route matching coverage and play within the scheme meant he could dial up different pressures. Having DEs that could get after the QB in different ways made the DBs job easier, or at least shorter.
Having LJ up front on early downs made it that much more fun on 3rd and long. They all worked together. But the dam busted when he lost X, Waynes and Mac all the same year.
I would argue they never did an adequate job replacing Shariff Floyd.
and Floyd never did an adequate job of replacing KWill.
Our IDL has been a Qmark since the Williams wall fell down. LJ was a good player for a couple years, but other than that our IDL has been a major issue for quite a while.
I agree although I think Sheldon Richardson did a nice job the first time we brought him in..
he was ok at best, he filled the position, but he didnt make me forget about KWill, or the need to be looking for DT help.
There is a reason he never seems to settle in one place. Lots of talent, but I don't think he was good at staying within the scheme.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
I don’t know how much of it is modeling the rams, and how
much of it is just the way the league as a whole is trending. The RB position as a whole is just dramatically
devalued and there’s big names still unsigned.
RBs seem more likely to get dinged and miss time, their careers are typically shorter than other positions, and the difference between a top guy and the next tier down in money is not enough to justify the cap space unless you are flush with cap and really need a RB. A team that has as many holes as the Vikings do cant justify paying top tier RB money when their defense cant really put them into a position to try and win with a running game.
But then how do we justify giving a blocking TE with almost zero receiving stats, a 21 million dollar contract as our first order of free agency? Lol. Why not just use that money to retain Dalvin Cook, who does more for this offense, and honor the contract we signed him to? I just think if we are trying to compete this year, it makes zero sense to get rid of Dalvin Cook, and that's the sentiment of a lot of smart people I've heard on NFL Radio talking about it the last few weeks.
I never said that made sense, but if you think that guy will enhance a running game, then he brings value to all parts of that running game, not just Cook so maybe there is a bigger plan in place? I dont think we are going to compete this year with or without Cook, but if you think a TE can help you long term, at that point in the future where the D is rounded into place, then I have no issue with the signing, nor any issue with moving on from Cook who is likely at the pinnacle of his game and wont likely be able to maintain this level of play.
I just think if the plan is to run the ball better, then it makes all the sense in the world to bring back your best running back instead of blowing money on a blocking TE. If the choice was between bringing back Davin Cook or spending money on a blocking TE, then bringing back Cook is the logical answer. So again it goes back to, does this front office really know what they are doing and have a plan? Are we trying to make a playoff run this year or are we not?
I just think they made their efforts to rework his deal, when that wasnt possible they decided to go RBBC and get a guy that will make any RB better. If this guy is as advertised and can elevate a running game, then why not get that for any RB you put back there, for the next few years, instead of putting all your eggs in one aging basket?
as far as the plan... I dont see it yet, but since I cant do anything about it, and bitching hasnt helped yet, I am kind of just saying.... whatever, I guess.
Because you are essentially swapping out an all-pro RB in his prime for a one dimensional TE.
But yeah I get it, there isn't much this front office has done that's made a lot of sense. This is the perfect example of that, trying to take a step forward while also taking a step back
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