And let's not forget, Trey has talent. Big arm, uses his legs well, and is still only 22 years old...younger then both Hooker and Will Levis
The Vikings did get an extended in person look at Lance last summer when the niners came to town for the joint practices prior to the preseason game, so while I am not a big fan of the kids, I would have to defer judgement if they were to being him in despite my opinions on him prior to the draft.
If the Vikings were to trade for Lance, he'd almost certainly have to come in as a starter. He's already been in the league for two years with minimal playing time, and after the 2023 season you're going to have to make a decision on his 5th year option. Kinda hard to pick that up when you barely have any tape on a guy. Otherwise you might be going down a similar path that the Pukers are going with Love.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
The Vikings did get an extended in person look at Lance last summer when the niners came to town for the joint practices prior to the preseason game, so while I am not a big fan of the kids, I would have to defer judgement if they were to being him in despite my opinions on him prior to the draft.
Probably no surprise, but I'm the exact opposite. I DO like Lance. I thought among the QBs taken that year, he had the highest upside. He was a couple years away, but I liked what he brought to the table.
But this road is fraught with danger. You're taking one of the best offenses in the NFL and removing its key piece and replacing it with a complete unknown.
But here's the kicker: Sam Darnold is a backup. Purdy looked decent with no film on him, but he's not going to be ready to play. This will be Lance's 3rd season. If the 49ers were excited AT ALL about his future, why would he just not be the starter?
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
The Vikings did get an extended in person look at Lance last summer when the niners came to town for the joint practices prior to the preseason game, so while I am not a big fan of the kids, I would have to defer judgement if they were to being him in despite my opinions on him prior to the draft.
Probably no surprise, but I'm the exact opposite. I DO like Lance. I thought among the QBs taken that year, he had the highest upside. He was a couple years away, but I liked what he brought to the table.
But this road is fraught with danger. You're taking one of the best offenses in the NFL and removing its key piece and replacing it with a complete unknown.
But here's the kicker: Sam Darnold is a backup. Purdy looked decent with no film on him, but he's not going to be ready to play. This will be Lance's 3rd season. If the 49ers were excited AT ALL about his future, why would he just not be the starter?
I agreed on Lance's upside, just that he was so raw he should have been a day 2 pick at best. All he had was athleticism, he was always the best athlete on the field through HS and his one season of D2 college ball. His game was never forced to really elevate. I would need to see what he looks like now after a couple years in a pro system with pro coaching.
The wants and needs of teams from the QB position vary based on where a team is, the niners could with a bunch of games with Lance, put he would still have a learning curve that Cousins wouldn't. The niners are ready to win now and would be a favorite with Cousins, at least until the cap crunch hits.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
The Vikings did get an extended in person look at Lance last summer when the niners came to town for the joint practices prior to the preseason game, so while I am not a big fan of the kids, I would have to defer judgement if they were to being him in despite my opinions on him prior to the draft.
Probably no surprise, but I'm the exact opposite. I DO like Lance. I thought among the QBs taken that year, he had the highest upside. He was a couple years away, but I liked what he brought to the table.
But this road is fraught with danger. You're taking one of the best offenses in the NFL and removing its key piece and replacing it with a complete unknown.
But here's the kicker: Sam Darnold is a backup. Purdy looked decent with no film on him, but he's not going to be ready to play. This will be Lance's 3rd season. If the 49ers were excited AT ALL about his future, why would he just not be the starter?
I think the fact that the 49ers just came out and stated Purdy is "their starter" is just indicative of Purdy coming in and outright winning the job, and it even surprised them. Maybe he is the better fit for their offense and is really more of the classic pocket passer Shannahan likes in his offense. Its unfortunate Trey was hurt in game #2, but it might be to the benefit of the team trading for him. IMO he has shown enough glimpses and his young age leads me to believe there is still a ton of upside there with him. He would just seem to be a great fit here in Minnesota on multiple levels.
As far as Kirk goes, yes he was a key piece in the offenses success last year, but the key piece is another year older and we don't know when or if his play will start to decline in a Matt Ryan-like spiral. He wants another short term, fully guaranteed contract that will continue to hinder our ability to build the roster and the front office is not willing to give that to him. If they thought he was the guy to take them to a Super Bowl it wouldn't even be a question on if they gave him the money or not, it would be a done deal. I think you also have to look at this roster and our division realistically and decide if we have the horses to compete and make a deep run this upcoming season or not. Most tend to think we do not and recognize the division will be more difficult next season and the chances of us pulling out so many close games is somewhere between slim and none. The page at quarterback will need to be turned soon regardless, so to me, if you don't think you are a Super Bowl contender next season, it makes sense to move Cousins and take what you can get for him now in compensation. I'd rather go 6-11 with Trey Lance starting, building towards the future, then go 9-8 with Cousins and fighting for a wild card spot (which I think is about the ceiling for this team next season) and him walking out the door as a free agent in 2024 and us having no succession plan in place or receiving nothing but a mid-round comp pick in return. Give me Trey Lance and give me the draft picks..
Here is the other thing to consider. I like what Kwesi is doing by letting this season play out with Cousins. He's gambling, and almost daring Cousins to repeat the year he just had and let this season reset his market value. If Kwesi was trading Options, he would be Selling a Put on Cousins value to fall well below his current salary. The problem with that strategy is that if we decide to walk away from Cousins next year and let him become a free agent, it comes with a $28.5 Million Dead Cap Hit. I just don't see an easy way to Divorce ourselves from Cousins unless a trade could be worked out with another team. Otherwise, they will need to figure out another extension for next year and beyond.
Quote: @TBro said:
Here is the other thing to consider. I like what Kwesi is doing by letting this season play out with Cousins. He's gambling, and almost daring Cousins to repeat the year he just had and let this season reset his market value. If Kwesi was trading Options, he would be Selling a Put on Cousins value to fall well below his current salary. The problem with that strategy is that if we decide to walk away from Cousins next year and let him become a free agent, it comes with a $28.5 Million Dead Cap Hit. I just don't see an easy way to Divorce ourselves from Cousins unless a trade could be worked out with another team. Otherwise, they will need to figure out another extension for next year and beyond.
I think we currently have $97M in cap space for '24 and that includes eating Cousins' dead money. Now, it doesn't include a full roster of players, but still, keep in mind that Cousins is completely off the books in '25 so that opens a huge amount of flexibility in '24. For example, you could sign a top free agent in '24 and put his cap acceleration in '25. Dead cap hits are just part of the game. The Eagles, for example, are eating $46M in dead cap this year.
If Cousins blows up in year two in the offense, he'll get an extension and we don't have to worry about the cap hit or the dead money. If he doesn't, 2023 will be his last season in purple and we'll eat his dead money with a ton more flexibility.
The only problem? Finding his replacement.
Since arriving as a free agent in 2018, Cousins has averaged 4,448 yards and 33 touchdowns against 11 interceptions in five seasons. And if he has only one playoff victory on his resume, he showed last season that, at age 34, he can win games with his arm.In his first season in coach Kevin O’Connell’s offense, Cousins led the Vikings to 13 victories — including the biggest comeback in NFL history — and an NFC North championship.
But the Vikings are planning ahead. They have to. Signed through 2024, Cousins will be 35 on Aug. 19 and has become prohibitively expensive — $30 million guaranteed in 2023 with, because of consistent restructuring, a lot of dead money against the cap through 2024.
“Quarterbacks are the most important position in our sport. These aren’t things you can’t just decide (on something) in the moment,” Vikings general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah said Thursday. “You have to have plans, you have to have a strategy, you have to have different ways of getting to that answer.
“We’ve had these conversations. They are ongoing. There are a lot of different avenues in terms of addressing that position.”
At 6-foot-4, 205 pounds, Cousins is the prototype old-time quarterback, a big, accurate pocket passer who runs only when he absolutely needs to. But the NFL, if not going in an entirely different direction, has shown a willingness to break that mold with players such as Miami’s Tua Tagovailoa, Chicago’s Justin Fields and Arizona’s Kyler Murray.
Which raises the question: If Cousins has thrived in the offensive system of O’Connell, a former NFL quarterback himself, will Mensah and O’Connell want their next quarterback to be another prototype pocket passer?
“I think you have traits in your mind,” O’Connell said Thursday. “I think what makes great coaches in this league are guys that can stay true to their football philosophy but maybe reinvent some of the X’s and O’s, how you get there, and just make sure that the end product is good football that can sustain. There’s a lot of ways to do that.”
The 2023 quarterback class is considered talented but top-heavy, with a handful of early first-round picks — Alabama’s Bryce Young, Ohio State’s C.J. Stroud, Anthony Richardson of Florida or Kentucky’s Will Levis — followed by a few guys who project as projects and would be available to Minnesota, such as Tennessee’s Hendon Hooker.
The assumption of many is that Minnesota will draft a quarterback they like and let him learn under Cousins until the veteran either retires or signs elsewhere. Adofo-Mensah acknowledged that’s something the team’s brain trust talks about “all the time.”
“I don’t know if there is one right answer, to be honest,” the GM added, “Ideally, you would want to have a year to have the person in the building or something like that, but I don’t know if that is necessary. It just depends on the player, depends on all those things.”
Ultimately, Adofo-Mensah said, the most important thing is for the team to do its due diligence and find the right player, a young quarterback they believe in.
Are there any available in this year’s draft?
“I think we’re still working through that process collectively as a group,” O’Connell said. “Going back every year that you’ve studied the draft, I’ve been right on guys and I’ve been wrong on guys. Sometimes, the key is about your process and truly figuring out what matters most to you or to us as an organization. I do think there is a lot to like about this year’s class with a lot of names that are being discussed as potential high picks, and I think there’s good options to add depth to your room after the draft, as well.”
“I use every year as a real process to go back and say, ‘Hey man, I was wrong on this one, right on this one,’ ” O’Connell said, “and really try to figure out the why, and how, collectively, can we build some of those hits and misses into our process moving forward to try and go ahead and identify that guy we do have that belief in.”
https://www.twincities.com/2023/04/14/what-will-the-vikings-next-quarterback-look-like-and-will-they-find-him-in-this-months-draft/
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ TBro said:
Here is the other thing to consider. I like what Kwesi is doing by letting this season play out with Cousins. He's gambling, and almost daring Cousins to repeat the year he just had and let this season reset his market value. If Kwesi was trading Options, he would be Selling a Put on Cousins value to fall well below his current salary. The problem with that strategy is that if we decide to walk away from Cousins next year and let him become a free agent, it comes with a $28.5 Million Dead Cap Hit. I just don't see an easy way to Divorce ourselves from Cousins unless a trade could be worked out with another team. Otherwise, they will need to figure out another extension for next year and beyond.
I think we currently have $97M in cap space for '24 and that includes eating Cousins' dead money. Now, it doesn't include a full roster of players, but still, keep in mind that Cousins is completely off the books in '25 so that opens a huge amount of flexibility in '24. For example, you could sign a top free agent in '24 and put his cap acceleration in '25. Dead cap hits are just part of the game. The Eagles, for example, are eating $46M in dead cap this year.
If Cousins blows up in year two in the offense, he'll get an extension and we don't have to worry about the cap hit or the dead money. If he doesn't, 2023 will be his last season in purple and we'll eat his dead money with a ton more flexibility.
The only problem? Finding his replacement.
Kirk Cousins Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac
Unless I'm reading this wrong, Cousins salary will count as a cap hit for us through the 2027 season as we've elected to "kick the can down the road" on void years to make his salary more palatable to absorb in the here and now.
Regardless on if he is the league MVP next season, I just don't see Kwesi doing a long term guaranteed contract with him as a 36 year old player and that being the direction they want to go in. So again it all boils down to how competitive do you think this team will be in 2023 and are we a legitimate Super Bowl contender? If you look through a realistic lens and decide we are not, then what sense does it make to hold on to Kirk Cousins for one more season regardless of who may or may not be in the pipeline? Like I said, I'd rather go 6-11 with Trey Lance starting in a learning/building year, then go 9-8 with Kirk Cousins in a "fight for the playoffs" type year and he walks out the door as a free agent for a mid round comp pick. I really hope this situation is being looked at realistically with a long-term vision and not a Wilf fanboy "let's be competitive" vision. The Wilf's need to stay the fuck out of things and let this new front office do what they think is the right thing moving forward. I don't think that is happening currently.
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