The Beast has been Released

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@TBro said:

@MaroonBells said:

@TBro said:

@MaroonBells said:

@TBro said:

@MaroonBells said:
Hoping we trade down...at least a couple times. We need a 5T, an ILB, a WR and a CB. Players I like at those positions are Bresee, Kancey, Jack Campbell, Flowers and Banks. And a handful that scare me to death: Hyatt, White, Branch and Forbes.

Agreed. There is very little to No difference in taking several of these players at 23 vs. gaining more picks and taking one of these 1st/2nd round tweeners in a trade down. If we could somehow get a 2nd Round pick from moving down, I'm really starting to warm up to Benton as a way to plug our need at DT. He is more versatile than Smith, and is much bigger than Kancey (who I want nothing to do with), and doesn't take plays off like Dexter does. 

It's tough to get a 2nd rounder with a trade down. You have to jump all the way to the middle 2nd to get a late 2nd back. And that's probably too far. I could see them trading down a couple times though, for a couple 3rd rounders that they could then turn into a 2nd. 

I like both Benton and Smith, but I think the Vikings might be more interested in DLs who can bring more heat in the passing game. Like Bresee and Kancey. Probably have to stay at 23 for them though. 

Kancey might seem an ill-fit for a 34, but that's what Aaron Donald is doing right now in LA's 34. And oh my can Kancey rush the passer. I don't want to say he's the next Aaron Donald, but the similarities are just ridiculous. 

This is why I don't want the Vikings to take him. 

WEAKNESSES: Short, stubby build and lacks desired height/weight/length … will be the first defensive tackle with a sub-74-inch wingspan to be drafted over the last
10 years … his arms were the second-shortest of all defensive tackles at the combine over the last 10 years … extremely quick in space, but can be slowed by contact
or bullied off his rush path … faulty anchor and can be moved from his spot in the run game … struggles to stay square and often overmatched by double teams or
near the goal line … his hands are quick, but his swipes last power … aggressive nature leads to breakdown issues, especially in the pocket (his missed tackle rate
increased each of the last three seasons) … missed final two games of his junior season because of a left shoulder injury (November 2022).

I'm sure I don't need to tell you who this was written about...

"Short, scrappy, instinctive, highly productive defensive lineman who does not look the part...Marginal height and frame is nearly maxed out....Hands are more active than strong -- could play with more pop and power...Overpowered in the run game and ground up by double teams [loved this one since there was plenty of tape of him not only beating doubles but triples! ]...Gets snared and controlled by bigger, longer blockers...Not a two-gap player...Has some tweener traits -- lacks ideal length and bend to play outside...Draft projection: Rounds 4-5. "

Donald definitely proved the critics wrong. So did John Randle but the amount of times a 280 lb DT doesn't get routinely washed out, especially in the Running Game, is pretty rare. As Scouts say, "Big People eat up Little People". For me, I'm not willing to bet on him as another rare exception to the rule and take that chance. I think he will have to play a lot of situational Edge to stay on the field which may be a good thing if he can develop those pass rushing skills from the Outside, especially if Smith get's moved. 

Big people eat up little people, except when they're penetrating. Ever watch a 330 lb guard try to manage Aaron Donald? It's a funny thing. Nobody runs the 3 yards and a cloud of dust anymore anyway. 

These smaller guys who can penetrate with unbelievable quickness tend to do pretty well in the NFL. I remember a player several years ago who's quickness stood out to me at the Senior Bowl. I thought he had 1st round talent. But because he was 6-1, 290, he went in the 4th round. Then went on to go to 8 Pro Bowls. Geno Atkins. Grady Jarrett and Ed Oliver are a couple more smallish DTs who've done well. And of course the great John Randle. 

Again, I'm not saying Kancey is Donald. I think Donald was a little stronger and maybe a little more explosive. In 40+ years of couch scouting I've never watched a more dominant player than Aaron Donald was at Pitt, and that includes Randy Moss. Still haven't. Kancey's arm length will hurt him a little (for pass rushers, it's important, for corners STFU). Still, it's pretty nuts to compare...

Donald - Pitt - 6-1, 282, 4.68
Kancey - Pitt - 6-1, 281, 4.67

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@mgobluevikes said:

@MaroonBells said:

@TBro said:

@MaroonBells said:
Hoping we trade down...at least a couple times. We need a 5T, an ILB, a WR and a CB. Players I like at those positions are Bresee, Kancey, Jack Campbell, Flowers and Banks. And a handful that scare me to death: Hyatt, White, Branch and Forbes.

Agreed. There is very little to No difference in taking several of these players at 23 vs. gaining more picks and taking one of these 1st/2nd round tweeners in a trade down. If we could somehow get a 2nd Round pick from moving down, I'm really starting to warm up to Benton as a way to plug our need at DT. He is more versatile than Smith, and is much bigger than Kancey (who I want nothing to do with), and doesn't take plays off like Dexter does. 

It's tough to get a 2nd rounder with a trade down. You have to jump all the way to the middle 2nd to get a late 2nd back. And that's probably too far. I could see them trading down a couple times though, for a couple 3rd rounders that they could then turn into a 2nd. 

I like both Benton and Smith, but I think the Vikings might be more interested in DLs who can bring more heat in the passing game. Like Bresee and Kancey. Probably have to stay at 23 for them though. 

Kancey might seem an ill-fit for a 34, but that's what Aaron Donald is doing right now in LA's 34. And oh my can Kancey rush the passer. I don't want to say he's the next Aaron Donald, but the similarities are just ridiculous. 

I agree with the sentiment. We see no value in that 23rd pick in the 1st, so who do does? It's a no man's land, and the 2nd rd. is where it's at in terms of value. I think once you get past 12-15 in the 1st rd. I'm kinda done and ready to move to rd. 2. I just see no dancing partners for us in moving back, and we're going to be standing there with holding our ball sacks. Unless we can make some good trades for Cook, Z or Hunter, this draft looks like a really ho-hum affair. Prepared to be underwhelmed. 

Same. Every time I do a mock I'm disappointed in the results. But I liked the Ingram, Asamoah and Evans picks last year. If Kwesi can do that well in the 3rd and 4th rounds again I'll be pretty happy. 

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I don't follow the scouting as much as many here, but after being hopeful for Cine, and after hearing of Booth's injury history, I was less than impressed with any of our picks. Ingram might turn out ok, but not sold yet. Still a bit baffled why Kwesi dumped on Duke. Think Kwesi has a few issues identifying and getting the roster right.

[Guest]

Its fun to research, but if you look at these draft assessments historically, you see how awful they really are. Its almost impossible to predict how these kids will pan out. Some certainly do it better than others, but ultimately there are so many factors that as an aggregate, its really hard to know. I don't envy NFL GMs. Teams are made or not with draft picks. Careers are made or destroyed with selections. I chuckle when 'value' gets thrown around.....if you make solid picks, value is almost irrelevant. But there's a whole cottage industry out there of younger guys online creating metrics to prop up 'value'. One very qualified GM can take Jalen Reagor when Justin Jefferson is still there to be had. That's the NFL Draft in a nutshell.