Quote: @wiviking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season, and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game? I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently, but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years. Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.
As far as the Jets ineptitude, well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise, been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.
And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB
KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line.
So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league.
That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season.
The 4th and 8 thing has gotten pretty old. Had he not thrown it and taken the sack, it would have been, why didn't he unload it to one of his playmakers and let them have a chance....
Every conversation with a Cousins hater goes something like this....A: “Cousins doesn’t throw deep! He’s a Checkdown Charlie!!
B: “Over the last five years, no QB has more TD passes over 25 yards than Kirk Cousins. In fact, since he became a starter in 2015, no QB in the NFL has more TD passes over 40 yards than Kirk Cousins.”
A: “Oh sure Cousins is a stat machine, but he doesn’t win, he isn’t clutch.”
B: “Cousins won 13 games and broke the NFL record for most come from behind victories and was 3rd in the NFL in game winning drives. In fact, only two active QBs have more wins than Cousins”
A: “OK, but he’s not worth his salary!”
B: “Cousins APY salary ranks 11th. His total contract value ranks 18th. His cap hit ranks 9th. And his % of salary cap ranks 11th”
A: “But….but….he didn’t win MVP!!”
B:
![[Image: archie-annoyed.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/LYPXg3QsTXEAAAAd/archie-annoyed.gif)
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season, and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game? I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently, but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years. Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.
As far as the Jets ineptitude, well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise, been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.
And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB
KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line.
So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league.
That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season.
Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think?
I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.
If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack.
Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.
You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day.
Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.
Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it.
A "mandate?" I hardly think turning the ball over was what KOC had in mind as turnovers are the biggest precursors to losing football games. But you are right in that Cousins wasn't to blame for the loss to the Giants, unfortunately for him on 4th and 8 with our season on the line he checked it down. If there was ever a :mandate" or a time to take a chance....that was it, and Kirk folded.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ wiviking said:
Every conversation with a Cousins hater goes something like this....A: “Cousins doesn’t throw deep! He’s a Checkdown Charlie!!
B: “Over the last five years, no QB has more TD passes over 25 yards than Kirk Cousins. In fact, since he became a starter in 2015, no QB in the NFL has more TD passes over 40 yards than Kirk Cousins.”
A: “Oh sure Cousins is a stat machine, but he doesn’t win, he isn’t clutch.”
B: “Cousins won 13 games and broke the NFL record for most come from behind victories and was 3rd in the NFL in game winning drives. In fact, only two active QBs have more wins than Cousins”
A: “OK, but he’s not worth his salary!”
B: “Cousins APY salary ranks 11th. His total contract value ranks 18th. His cap hit ranks 9th. And his % of salary cap ranks 11th”
A: “But….but….he didn’t win MVP!!”
B:
Lol you are the one telling us how historically great he is, so explain to me how Justin Fields and Tua had more MVP votes then Kirk Cousins last season? And I have nothing against Kirk outside of his age and understanding that he's entering into that risky range where historically QB play falls off, yet he still wants his usual fully guaranteed, short term contract with a no trade clause, which puts the team in a continued bind shuffling around money to stay competitive. I'm over it, as I'd bet 90% of the fanbase is.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ wiviking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season, and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game? I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently, but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years. Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.
As far as the Jets ineptitude, well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise, been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.
And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB
KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line.
So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league.
That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season.
The 4th and 8 thing has gotten pretty old. Had he not thrown it and taken the sack, it would have been, why didn't he unload it to one of his playmakers and let them have a chance....
Every conversation with a Cousins hater goes something like this....A: “Cousins doesn’t throw deep! He’s a Checkdown Charlie!!
B: “Over the last five years, no QB has more TD passes over 25 yards than Kirk Cousins. In fact, since he became a starter in 2015, no QB in the NFL has more TD passes over 40 yards than Kirk Cousins.”
A: “Oh sure Cousins is a stat machine, but he doesn’t win, he isn’t clutch.”
B: “Cousins won 13 games and broke the NFL record for most come from behind victories and was 3rd in the NFL in game winning drives. In fact, only two active QBs have more wins than Cousins”
A: “OK, but he’s not worth his salary!”
B: “Cousins APY salary ranks 11th. His total contract value ranks 18th. His cap hit ranks 9th. And his % of salary cap ranks 11th”
A: “But….but….he didn’t win MVP!!”
B:
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season, and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game? I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently, but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years. Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.
As far as the Jets ineptitude, well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise, been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.
And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB
KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line.
So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league.
That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season.
Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think?
I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.
If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack.
Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.
You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day.
Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.
Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it.
NFL MVP voting is done prior to the start of the playoffs, KCs postseason success, or lack of, had no bearing on his poor showing in the MVP vote.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season, and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game? I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently, but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years. Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.
As far as the Jets ineptitude, well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise, been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.
And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB
KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line.
So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league.
That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season.
Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think?
I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.
If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack.
Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.
You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day.
Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.
Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it.
A "mandate?" I hardly think turning the ball over was what KOC had in mind as turnovers are the biggest precursors to losing football games. But you are right in that Cousins wasn't to blame for the loss to the Giants, unfortunately for him on 4th and 8 with our season on the line he checked it down. If there was ever a :mandate" or a time to take a chance....that was it, and Kirk folded.
Can you pull up the film of that play and find a better option? Kirk explained his process on that and the film confirms it. Can't take a sack there, gotta put the ball in play. The o-line was beaten so fast, the rest of the WRs hadn't even gotten to the top of their routes and the defense was all sitting at the marker.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season, and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game? I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently, but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years. Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.
As far as the Jets ineptitude, well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise, been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.
And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB
KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line.
So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league.
That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season.
Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think?
I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.
If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack.
Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.
You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day.
Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.
Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it.
A "mandate?" I hardly think turning the ball over was what KOC had in mind as turnovers are the biggest precursors to losing football games. But you are right in that Cousins wasn't to blame for the loss to the Giants, unfortunately for him on 4th and 8 with our season on the line he checked it down. If there was ever a :mandate" or a time to take a chance....that was it, and Kirk folded.
You apparently missed every conversation from the offseason. KOC encouraged Cousins to be more aggressive, even if that meant throwing more interceptions. KOC did the same thing with Stafford the year before. He threw 17 interceptions! He also threw 41 TDs and won the Super Bowl.
Cousins has always been famously over-cautious with the football, so KOC's mandate was a hard pill for him to swallow. He mentioned it many times. But he did well. I think we probably don't win 3 or 4 of those comebacks without Cousins being more aggressive.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season, and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game? I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently, but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years. Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.
As far as the Jets ineptitude, well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise, been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.
And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB
KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line.
So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league.
That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season.
Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think?
I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.
If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack.
Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.
You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day.
Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.
Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it.
A "mandate?" I hardly think turning the ball over was what KOC had in mind as turnovers are the biggest precursors to losing football games. But you are right in that Cousins wasn't to blame for the loss to the Giants, unfortunately for him on 4th and 8 with our season on the line he checked it down. If there was ever a :mandate" or a time to take a chance....that was it, and Kirk folded.
Can you pull up the film of that play and find a better option? Kirk explained his process on that and the film confirms it. Can't take a sack there, gotta put the ball in play. The o-line was beaten so fast, the rest of the WRs hadn't even gotten to the top of their routes and the defense was all sitting at the marker.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season, and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game? I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently, but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years. Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.
As far as the Jets ineptitude, well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise, been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.
And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB
KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line.
So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league.
That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season.
Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think?
I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.
If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack.
Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.
You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day.
Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.
Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it.
A "mandate?" I hardly think turning the ball over was what KOC had in mind as turnovers are the biggest precursors to losing football games. But you are right in that Cousins wasn't to blame for the loss to the Giants, unfortunately for him on 4th and 8 with our season on the line he checked it down. If there was ever a :mandate" or a time to take a chance....that was it, and Kirk folded.
You apparently missed every conversation from the offseason. KOC encouraged Cousins to be more aggressive, even if that meant throwing more interceptions. KOC did the same thing with Stafford the year before. He threw 17 interceptions! He also threw 41 TDs and won the Super Bowl.
Cousins has always been famously over-cautious with the football, so KOC's mandate was a hard pill for him to swallow. He mentioned it many times. But he did well. I think we probably don't win 3 or 4 of those comebacks without Cousins being more aggressive.
I just don't know that I'll ever buy a coach encouraging more turnovers when turnovers are the biggest precursor to wins and losses. It would be like a coach telling their running back to take a more aggressive and risky approach to running the football at the expense of that running back putting the ball on the ground more. If you watch the video I posted of every Kirk INT on the year, you'll see that a good percentage were just careless throws and had nothing to do with trying to be more aggressive throwing the ball down the field.
Like I said, I don't have a problem with Cousins the player. I understand he's limited and needs players around him to play his best. He is a good, not great QB and I'll I'm saying is he isn't irreplaceable and the organization shouldn't be scared to attempt to upgrade the position, regardless of the Jets ineptitude or any other organization and the way they've conducted business
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ greediron said:
Can you pull up the film of that play and find a better option? Kirk explained his process on that and the film confirms it. Can't take a sack there, gotta put the ball in play. The o-line was beaten so fast, the rest of the WRs hadn't even gotten to the top of their routes and the defense was all sitting at the marker.
The coach isn't off the hook, it could have been a better play called. Plus, credit goes to the defense because they may have called the perfect defense to counter.
Here's a good breakdown:
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