Quote: @wiviking said:
I don't get all the references to Cousins age, considering he has not missed a single game due to injury since he has been here.The guy takes a ton of hits and has not shown any signs of becoming frail and fragile. Last week people were clamoring to give up what, two first rounders for Jackson? Being that with our defense, we aren't winning any games with a backup quarterback, I'll take the guy that is available to play every week.
That's just it though, he will be 35 at the start of the season and those hits add up for somebody his age. He could be the exception but he could also fall off the cliff in a hurry. Wouldn't be the first quarterback in his middle 30's to regress in a hurry.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ Skodin said:
So is this making room for 2023 by taking room for 2024?
Why are we doing this? Couldn't we restructure the bonus for ONeill and get into cap compliance without moving Z, Harry, or Cook?
Is this about creating leverage vs those 3 and leverage in a potential trade with another team? I have no interest in seeing Z or Cook on this team next year, much rather have picks and room for new guys to step in
Are we re-building or re-loading? Are both feet on the gas and brake?
That's a good question and I was alluding to this earlier in other posts.
What is our plan? So far it seems like we're playing on the margins and straddling the fence.
We could do an easy retool by cutting all our old vets to clear max cap space and reinvest that money into younger talent. But we only went halfway with releasing Kendricks and Thielen... We're holding Z hostage when he doesn't want to play for us and potentially signed his replacement in Davenport but have yet to release Z... we have no resolution on Harry's status... We just kicked the cap can down the road on Cousins without committing one way or the other on him. No extensions for Hock, JJ, or Darrisaw but we got the best blocking TE in FA...
I don't understand what our goal is this off-season.
Wet, you're talking like this is your first free agency. We're 24 hours in and you've already lost patience. What the hell are we doing?!! Do something! Show me the plan, KAM!
A lot is going to happen between now and the draft, plenty more after the draft. I suspect that's when JJ will be extended. Same with TJH. You obviously can't do it now. There's no hurry because they're not free agents. Darrisaw? He's not even eligible yet. Patience, my friend. It's silly to judge the offseason until we've actually had one. Then you can bitch all you want.
It's not just this off-season, it's the last one too. Seems like Kwesi just picked up where Spielman left off. I was hoping with a fresh perspective and a bright young mind, we'd see some forethought with our roster decisions.
Basically it's been a half ass approach to just get us under the cap without making a definitive decision on where we want this team to go. Kirk still has us by the balls, we aren't willing to give him another guaranteed deal and by converting more of his salary into a bonus, we just added more dead money to the void years on his current deal instead of finding other ways to restructure or extend players we intend to keep beyond 2023. Even if we want to extend Kirk still, adding more dead money to his deal doesn't help us out at all in negotiations. Basically it just limits the amount of cap gymanstics we could do with a long-term extension.
Also, this hasn't been talked about but the Danztler cut looks dumb as well. We didn't want him, but Washington claimed him which means we could have gotten a late round pick (this year or next year) to send him there. Missed opportunity by Kwesi. Now before we poo poo a late round pick, when you're already down a couple picks in the draft... any additional ones you can get for basically free are good.
I'm just not impressed with what we've done to this point. Same as last year, Kwesi did some good things but also made some mistakes as well.
Quote: @Greylock said:
@ wiviking said:
I don't get all the references to Cousins age, considering he has not missed a single game due to injury since he has been here. The guy takes a ton of hits and has not shown any signs of becoming frail and fragile. Last week people were clamoring to give up what, two first rounders for Jackson? Being that with our defense, we aren't winning any games with a backup quarterback, I'll take the guy that is available to play every week.
That's just it though, he will be 35 at the start of the season and those hits add up for somebody his age. He could be the exception but he could also fall off the cliff in a hurry. Wouldn't be the first quarterback in his middle 30's to regress in a hurry.
I agree. It could happen, and most likely will happen. Sometime. But to date, he hasn't showed even a little whiff of it. Hell, look at the runs he took off on this year. Lowered the shoulder and delivered the hit instead of received it. He is never going to be mistaken for the young mobile quarterbacks. But those guys seldom play an entire season. He is at the tail end of his career, and definitely isn't a long term solution. But hes not quite ready for the mobility cart and the 3 o'clock early-bird either.
Like I mentioned in another thread, Cousins’ restructure actually makes him easier to trade now. Can’t really see it happening, but it has that affect…
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ Skodin said:
So is this making room for 2023 by taking room for 2024?
Why are we doing this? Couldn't we restructure the bonus for ONeill and get into cap compliance without moving Z, Harry, or Cook?
Is this about creating leverage vs those 3 and leverage in a potential trade with another team? I have no interest in seeing Z or Cook on this team next year, much rather have picks and room for new guys to step in
Are we re-building or re-loading? Are both feet on the gas and brake?
That's a good question and I was alluding to this earlier in other posts.
What is our plan? So far it seems like we're playing on the margins and straddling the fence.
We could do an easy retool by cutting all our old vets to clear max cap space and reinvest that money into younger talent. But we only went halfway with releasing Kendricks and Thielen... We're holding Z hostage when he doesn't want to play for us and potentially signed his replacement in Davenport but have yet to release Z... we have no resolution on Harry's status... We just kicked the cap can down the road on Cousins without committing one way or the other on him. No extensions for Hock, JJ, or Darrisaw but we got the best blocking TE in FA...
I don't understand what our goal is this off-season.
Wet, you're talking like this is your first free agency. We're 24 hours in and you've already lost patience. What the hell are we doing?!! Do something! Show me the plan, KAM!
A lot is going to happen between now and the draft, plenty more after the draft. I suspect that's when JJ will be extended. Same with TJH. You obviously can't do it now. There's no hurry because they're not free agents. Darrisaw? He's not even eligible yet. Patience, my friend. It's silly to judge the offseason until we've actually had one. Then you can bitch all you want.
It's not just this off-season, it's the last one too. Seems like Kwesi just picked up where Spielman left off. I was hoping with a fresh perspective and a bright young mind, we'd see some forethought with our roster decisions.
Basically it's been a half ass approach to just get us under the cap without making a definitive decision on where we want this team to go. Kirk still has us by the balls, we aren't willing to give him another guaranteed deal and by converting more of his salary into a bonus, we just added more dead money to the void years on his current deal instead of finding other ways to restructure or extend players we intend to keep beyond 2023. Even if we want to extend Kirk still, adding more dead money to his deal doesn't help us out at all in negotiations. Basically it just limits the amount of cap gymanstics we could do with a long-term extension.
Also, this hasn't been talked about but the Danztler cut looks dumb as well. We didn't want him, but Washington claimed him which means we could have gotten a late round pick (this year or next year) to send him there. Missed opportunity by Kwesi. Now before we poo poo a late round pick, when you're already down a couple picks in the draft... any additional ones you can get for basically free are good.
I'm just not impressed with what we've done to this point. Same as last year, Kwesi did some good things but also made some mistakes as well.
I have not been impressed with anything Adolfo-Mensah has done since he walked in the door. You can point to his hiring of OConnel and winning the division last year in his first season, but let's be objective and acknowledge we won with essentially Spielmans roster and all the bad luck we had under Zimmer the prior two seasons finally went in our favor and we won some close games. If you want to give KOC credit, you also have to acknowledge the fact that his hiring of Donatell was also our undoing last year when everybody knew that had disaster written all over it and that's exactly how it played out. Free agency last year was a bust. Hicks and Phillips were not good. Zadarius faded and lived up to his injury prone perception. Jalen Raegor, bust. Blacklock, bust. The entire 2022 draft, bust, and made zero impact year one when we needed them to. Hockenson was the one good move he made, but now we need to sign him to a big extension when we are scrambling for cap space and just how much money are we tying up at the TE position? Considering the depth and quality at TE in this upcoming draft, was making the Hockenson trade really in our best interest? Certainly questionable. Now we have people on this page who are always stroking Kwesi telling us how great he is and trying to talk us into getting excited about a blocking TE and an edge rusher who had half a sack last year as our first moves of free agency. Like I said, someone wake me when Adolfo-Mensah does something that's sensible and actually upgrades the roster.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ Skodin said:
So is this making room for 2023 by taking room for 2024?
Why are we doing this? Couldn't we restructure the bonus for ONeill and get into cap compliance without moving Z, Harry, or Cook?
Is this about creating leverage vs those 3 and leverage in a potential trade with another team? I have no interest in seeing Z or Cook on this team next year, much rather have picks and room for new guys to step in
Are we re-building or re-loading? Are both feet on the gas and brake?
That's a good question and I was alluding to this earlier in other posts.
What is our plan? So far it seems like we're playing on the margins and straddling the fence.
We could do an easy retool by cutting all our old vets to clear max cap space and reinvest that money into younger talent. But we only went halfway with releasing Kendricks and Thielen... We're holding Z hostage when he doesn't want to play for us and potentially signed his replacement in Davenport but have yet to release Z... we have no resolution on Harry's status... We just kicked the cap can down the road on Cousins without committing one way or the other on him. No extensions for Hock, JJ, or Darrisaw but we got the best blocking TE in FA...
I don't understand what our goal is this off-season.
Wet, you're talking like this is your first free agency. We're 24 hours in and you've already lost patience. What the hell are we doing?!! Do something! Show me the plan, KAM!
A lot is going to happen between now and the draft, plenty more after the draft. I suspect that's when JJ will be extended. Same with TJH. You obviously can't do it now. There's no hurry because they're not free agents. Darrisaw? He's not even eligible yet. Patience, my friend. It's silly to judge the offseason until we've actually had one. Then you can bitch all you want.
It's not just this off-season, it's the last one too. Seems like Kwesi just picked up where Spielman left off. I was hoping with a fresh perspective and a bright young mind, we'd see some forethought with our roster decisions.
Basically it's been a half ass approach to just get us under the cap without making a definitive decision on where we want this team to go. Kirk still has us by the balls, we aren't willing to give him another guaranteed deal and by converting more of his salary into a bonus, we just added more dead money to the void years on his current deal instead of finding other ways to restructure or extend players we intend to keep beyond 2023. Even if we want to extend Kirk still, adding more dead money to his deal doesn't help us out at all in negotiations. Basically it just limits the amount of cap gymanstics we could do with a long-term extension.
Also, this hasn't been talked about but the Danztler cut looks dumb as well. We didn't want him, but Washington claimed him which means we could have gotten a late round pick (this year or next year) to send him there. Missed opportunity by Kwesi. Now before we poo poo a late round pick, when you're already down a couple picks in the draft... any additional ones you can get for basically free are good.
I'm just not impressed with what we've done to this point. Same as last year, Kwesi did some good things but also made some mistakes as well.
Dantzler a missed opportunity? Just because a team picked him up off waivers doesn't mean they were willing to spend a draft pick on him. And how do we even know they didn't try to trade him? Either way, it's doubtful a team in need of corners is going to waive a former 3rd round pick because they didn't think it through. The guy missed several games due to a mysterious off-field issue. Do you think it's possible that whatever was behind those absences was also behind his release? Culture is important to Kwesi. Just a thought.
Regarding Cousins, I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like they were trying to extend him for an amount Cousins wouldn't agree to, a deal that would've given us more cap space this year. But rather than buckle under and pay him, they chose to let his deal ride and pull cap space from a conversion. I don't know, seems to me the Cousins haters would be happy about that.
We can agree or disagree on the wisdom of our moves so far. But the part that really makes my head spin is your contention that there has been no "forethought" into the roster decisions. Like...what??? How could you possibly know that? Sure, it's fluid and each transaction impacts the amount of money you have for the next, but that's just part of playing the game in realtime. Either way, I think it's pretty screwball to assume that Kwesi and his staff haven't spent the last several weeks hashing out an offseason outline with various contingencies, as if he were bowling or something when he got a call that free agency had started. LOL.
![[Image: 5vpnhwc2bgbr.gif]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/82/5vpnhwc2bgbr.gif)
Kwesi is clueless damn it, I told you, why won’t you listen…!!! 
Quote: @Greylock said:
@ wiviking said:
I don't get all the references to Cousins age, considering he has not missed a single game due to injury since he has been here. The guy takes a ton of hits and has not shown any signs of becoming frail and fragile. Last week people were clamoring to give up what, two first rounders for Jackson? Being that with our defense, we aren't winning any games with a backup quarterback, I'll take the guy that is available to play every week.
That's just it though, he will be 35 at the start of the season and those hits add up for somebody his age. He could be the exception but he could also fall off the cliff in a hurry. Wouldn't be the first quarterback in his middle 30's to regress in a hurry.
nobody wants to acknowledge the signs of aging. Kirks completion % has dropped every year he's been a Viking, is that a result of other factors or is that due to his taking hit after hit after hit for most of his life? He has also shown other little things, but like the comp %, it might be age, it might be other, but his performance is not what it once was, but he did thrown for a shit load of yards, although I dont know if that is a great measure or not, doesnt really account for YAC that comes from a great route or broken tackles/plays.
Quote: @Kentis said:
Like I mentioned in another thread, Cousins’ restructure actually makes him easier to trade now. Can’t really see it happening, but it has that affect…
Not sure how that is the case. If it is true that they created 16M in cap space then they had to take his entire 20M roster bonus plus 4M of salary and spread it over the last 3 years (through 2025).
His cap hit would be 202.25M this year and 14.25M in 2024 & 2025 which are void years.
The problem is if they move on from him after this season, they would have to eat 28.5M in dead money in 2024.
As far as trading him, I suppose they can still do it because they do not have to pay him the roster bonus all at once and not until 3/23 (15M 3/23 and 5M 9/23).
I guess they can do this cap conversion and still trade him but to who?
Also, I heard on NFL Network from Ian Rappoport that the conversion would only free up 10M in cap space which seems more Brez like to me.
If they added void years they would need his permission and that is possible if they feel like they will extend him yet again and are still haggling.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ Kentis said:
Like I mentioned in another thread, Cousins’ restructure actually makes him easier to trade now. Can’t really see it happening, but it has that affect…
Not sure how that is the case. If it is true that they created 16M in cap space then they had to take his entire 20M roster bonus plus 4M of salary and spread it over the last 3 years (through 2025).
His cap hit would be 202.25M this year and 14.25M in 2024 & 2025 which are void years.
The problem is if they move on from him after this season, they would have to eat 28.5M in dead money in 2024.
As far as trading him, I suppose they can still do it because they do not have to pay him the roster bonus all at once and not until 3/23 (15M 3/23 and 5M 9/23).
I guess they can do this cap conversion and still trade him but to who?
Also, I heard on NFL Network from Ian Rappoport that the conversion would only free up 10M in cap space which seems more Brez like to me.
If they added void years they would need his permission and that is possible if they feel like they will extend him yet again and are still haggling.
It’s more palpable to a trade partner, not us…
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