Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Cousins is due to be paid 15M of his bonus next week.
“There have been discussions, but nothing is immenet right now. He has a roster bonus of $20 million that will be earned later this week and will need to be paid $15 million of it by next week, so it’s kinda sort of a soft deadline to get something done, but I’m not sensing any momentum toward that and it is quite possible that he plays out the last year of his deal. And when we’re sitting here next year Ian for free agency frenzy, we might once again talk about (Kirk) Cousins again being a free agent.”
I wonder if the Vikings arrange to pay 10M of that and then try to trade him when he would only have a 20M salary? Would they do that in an effort to get a higher pick?
Is Cousins even worth a 1st round pick? If so, what team would do it? Jets at 13?
No team would give up a 1st round pick for Cousins. We might get a couple mid round picks for him, but that's about it. I thought we could have traded him to Cleveland or San Francisco over the last couple years and it would have brought us the best package in trade compensation, but now he is 35 and any team trading for him will be facing the same problems the Vikings have in that he is a short term answer and is going to want a lot of guaranteed money in an extension. The Vikings won't trade him though as they have absolutely no viable transition option. They'll let him play this out and hope they are better positioned to acquire a quarterback next offseason.
The niners are built to win now with now true QB on the roster that would instill hope. 2 decent prospects or KC for a once a decade or two roster, you make that move. One of the prospects, next years first, and a couple of those dozens of 3rd rounders they have this yeat.
Is he really that much better then Garoppolo though, who already knows the offense and would come at a cheaper cost with no given up draft compensation? It would make more sense for the 49ers to just bring back Jimmy G on a short term deal if they didn't believe Purdy or Lance would be ready. The one team that I do go back to though as a possibility if they don't make a move for Lamar Jackson is Washington. They just can't get the QB position right, have an otherwise really good roster, and this is probably it for Ron Rivera if he can't get the Commandos over the hump this season. They might be desperate enough to make a move and Cousins could return to the place he started his career at.
Don't get me wrong, I'd be all for trading Cousins to the highest bidder and finally getting off the hostage negotiation table, but I just don't think the Vikings have the balls to trade him with nothing in the chamber behind him.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Wonder how far apart they are in terms?
IF this is the case, there is certainly more pressure on the org to get a young gun in sooner than later and sit behind KC a year.
I suppose the obvious option 2 is to draft someone next year and resign KC then or some vet journeymen to helm the offense in 24.
Either way, JJ and Hock will be watching this closely.
I don't know if its necessarily a difference in what he is worth in $ as its an impasse in how they want to move forward. Kirk is going to be 35 and has been relatively healthy. He doesn't want to continue down the year to year path. From what I heard he is looking for a deal around $42M for 3 years past this upcoming season. 100% guaranteed for injury and the first 3 years fully guaranteed. So if you include this year think of it as a 4 year $162M contract. Without knowing specifics lets just call it $120-$130M guaranteed at signing.
On the Vikings side I don't think they're 100% sold they can win with Kirk and don't want to be locked into him for JJ & Darrisaw's prime years. So preferably they would get another 1 year tacked on to his current deal that controls him and opens up some cap in 2023 while bringing them back to the table next off-season. It also lets them continue to look for a long-term successor if that is the route they want to go down.
Really the only solution I feel is Kirk agreeing to a longer term extension with only the first 2 years being guaranteed in 23/24. Accomplishes what the Vikings want, but does that really help Kirk? There is just no good means to an end here if the Vikings aren't willing to commit. I also find is suspect this is starting to float through the media, which really suggests Kirk and his reps aren't so thrilled with this.
Geoff, just for shits and giggles, what are your thoughts on a realistic trade value for Cousins if the Vikings went in that direction? I would think his age and the guaranteed money he wants (as you highlighted) would hinder his trade value.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Wonder how far apart they are in terms?
IF this is the case, there is certainly more pressure on the org to get a young gun in sooner than later and sit behind KC a year.
I suppose the obvious option 2 is to draft someone next year and resign KC then or some vet journeymen to helm the offense in 24.
Either way, JJ and Hock will be watching this closely.
I don't know if its necessarily a difference in what he is worth in $ as its an impasse in how they want to move forward. Kirk is going to be 35 and has been relatively healthy. He doesn't want to continue down the year to year path. From what I heard he is looking for a deal around $42M for 3 years past this upcoming season. 100% guaranteed for injury and the first 3 years fully guaranteed. So if you include this year think of it as a 4 year $162M contract. Without knowing specifics lets just call it $120-$130M guaranteed at signing.
On the Vikings side I don't think they're 100% sold they can win with Kirk and don't want to be locked into him for JJ & Darrisaw's prime years. So preferably they would get another 1 year tacked on to his current deal that controls him and opens up some cap in 2023 while bringing them back to the table next off-season. It also lets them continue to look for a long-term successor if that is the route they want to go down.
Really the only solution I feel is Kirk agreeing to a longer term extension with only the first 2 years being guaranteed in 23/24. Accomplishes what the Vikings want, but does that really help Kirk? There is just no good means to an end here if the Vikings aren't willing to commit. I also find is suspect this is starting to float through the media, which really suggests Kirk and his reps aren't so thrilled with this.
Geoff, just for shits and giggles, what are your thoughts on a realistic trade value for Cousins if the Vikings went in that direction? I would think his age and the guaranteed money he wants (as you highlighted) would hinder his trade value.
Impossible to know, depends on how many teams would get to Kirk to waive his NTC which likely limits it to team willing to give him the contract above. I am not sure too many teams would be lining up to do that and wouldn't pay a premium to do it. Tend to think it would be a late 1st/high 2nd round pick or potentially a 3rd this year and conditional 1/2 next year.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Wonder how far apart they are in terms?
IF this is the case, there is certainly more pressure on the org to get a young gun in sooner than later and sit behind KC a year.
I suppose the obvious option 2 is to draft someone next year and resign KC then or some vet journeymen to helm the offense in 24.
Either way, JJ and Hock will be watching this closely.
I don't know if its necessarily a difference in what he is worth in $ as its an impasse in how they want to move forward. Kirk is going to be 35 and has been relatively healthy. He doesn't want to continue down the year to year path. From what I heard he is looking for a deal around $42M for 3 years past this upcoming season. 100% guaranteed for injury and the first 3 years fully guaranteed. So if you include this year think of it as a 4 year $162M contract. Without knowing specifics lets just call it $120-$130M guaranteed at signing.
On the Vikings side I don't think they're 100% sold they can win with Kirk and don't want to be locked into him for JJ & Darrisaw's prime years. So preferably they would get another 1 year tacked on to his current deal that controls him and opens up some cap in 2023 while bringing them back to the table next off-season. It also lets them continue to look for a long-term successor if that is the route they want to go down.
Really the only solution I feel is Kirk agreeing to a longer term extension with only the first 2 years being guaranteed in 23/24. Accomplishes what the Vikings want, but does that really help Kirk? There is just no good means to an end here if the Vikings aren't willing to commit. I also find is suspect this is starting to float through the media, which really suggests Kirk and his reps aren't so thrilled with this.
Geoff, just for shits and giggles, what are your thoughts on a realistic trade value for Cousins if the Vikings went in that direction? I would think his age and the guaranteed money he wants (as you highlighted) would hinder his trade value.
Impossible to know, depends on how many teams would get to Kirk to waive his NTC which likely limits it to team willing to give him the contract above. I am not sure too many teams would be lining up to do that and wouldn't pay a premium to do it. Tend to think it would be a late 1st/high 2nd round pick or potentially a 3rd this year and conditional 1/2 next year.
If the Vikings can sniff anything close to a first or second round pick of any kind, and they have no intention of extending Kirk with the guarantees he wants in his contract, they should be picking up that phone and calling every team in the league to gauge interest. What's the point in simply letting him play out the last year of his contract? We get nothing in return and Kirk walk's to the highest bidder when the year is over. If we aren't willing to pay and extend him now with the guarantees he wants, why would that change a year from now when he will be another year older? I know its all fluid, but it just seems to me like you indicated, Kwesi knows we are just "good enough to win" with Cousins and as an analytics guy likely seems the flaws in continuing to extend a 35 year old quarterback to guaranteed money which continues to hinder our cap flexibility.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Wonder how far apart they are in terms?
IF this is the case, there is certainly more pressure on the org to get a young gun in sooner than later and sit behind KC a year.
I suppose the obvious option 2 is to draft someone next year and resign KC then or some vet journeymen to helm the offense in 24.
Either way, JJ and Hock will be watching this closely.
I don't know if its necessarily a difference in what he is worth in $ as its an impasse in how they want to move forward. Kirk is going to be 35 and has been relatively healthy. He doesn't want to continue down the year to year path. From what I heard he is looking for a deal around $42M for 3 years past this upcoming season. 100% guaranteed for injury and the first 3 years fully guaranteed. So if you include this year think of it as a 4 year $162M contract. Without knowing specifics lets just call it $120-$130M guaranteed at signing.
On the Vikings side I don't think they're 100% sold they can win with Kirk and don't want to be locked into him for JJ & Darrisaw's prime years. So preferably they would get another 1 year tacked on to his current deal that controls him and opens up some cap in 2023 while bringing them back to the table next off-season. It also lets them continue to look for a long-term successor if that is the route they want to go down.
Really the only solution I feel is Kirk agreeing to a longer term extension with only the first 2 years being guaranteed in 23/24. Accomplishes what the Vikings want, but does that really help Kirk? There is just no good means to an end here if the Vikings aren't willing to commit. I also find is suspect this is starting to float through the media, which really suggests Kirk and his reps aren't so thrilled with this.
Geoff, just for shits and giggles, what are your thoughts on a realistic trade value for Cousins if the Vikings went in that direction? I would think his age and the guaranteed money he wants (as you highlighted) would hinder his trade value.
Impossible to know, depends on how many teams would get to Kirk to waive his NTC which likely limits it to team willing to give him the contract above. I am not sure too many teams would be lining up to do that and wouldn't pay a premium to do it. Tend to think it would be a late 1st/high 2nd round pick or potentially a 3rd this year and conditional 1/2 next year.
If the Vikings can sniff anything close to a first or second round pick of any kind, and they have no intention of extending Kirk with the guarantees he wants in his contract, they should be picking up that phone and calling every team in the league to gauge interest. What's the point in simply letting him play out the last year of his contract? We get nothing in return and Kirk walk's to the highest bidder when the year is over. If we aren't willing to pay and extend him now with the guarantees he wants, why would that change a year from now when he will be another year older? I know its all fluid, but it just seems to me like you indicated, Kwesi knows we are just "good enough to win" with Cousins and as an analytics guy likely seems the flaws in continuing to extend a 35 year old quarterback to guaranteed money which continues to hinder our cap flexibility.
You can have cap flexibility with a high priced QB. The contract just needs to be drawn up in a way to allow for it. There are a lot of reasons letting Kirk play it out is just an interesting idea all around. But if the price is a 2nd round pick, playing it out and ultimately seeing what happens isn't the worst outcome since you'll get a 3rd round comp pick the following year. Its something.
The harder question in all of this is, how are they going to obtain a new franchise QB if he walks himself into free agency? Quickly becomes the A topic.
I read somewhere, Kirk is asking for something like a 3 year 141 million fully guaranteed contract...? Not positive on the numbers though.
I just don’t think it makes sense for the team to address
Cousins contract before the draft. I
think Cousins has a lot of incentive to get locked up long term prior to the
draft and a lot of the urgency is from his camp. I think long term plans become a lot more
solid after we figure out how the draft goes and we can give him an extension
later this offseason if we want to. It
would be negligent for us to not have QB of the future as an option on the
table in the draft, and our plans probably vary based on if we get a QB we feel
like we can work with. I think what
should happen is that if we draft a QB we really like, we should let Kirk ride
his contract out, and if not we should look at giving him another 2 years
guaranteed and 2 years of low salary with incentives to get it higher if he
wants that and we can get out of if we need to.
I just don’t think there’s any way to guarantee him big QB money past 2025
as he’d be 38 in 2026.
If we needed the money to go all in this year, and we needed
to redo his contract to get the money, that’d be one thing, but I just don’t
think we can rebuild this roster that quickly.
I think we probably have to be looking at 2023 as year to build our
foundation on defense and 2024 as the year to be SB competitive.
Quote: @medaille said:
I just don’t think it makes sense for the team to address
Cousins contract before the draft. I
think Cousins has a lot of incentive to get locked up long term prior to the
draft and a lot of the urgency is from his camp. I think long term plans become a lot more
solid after we figure out how the draft goes and we can give him an extension
later this offseason if we want to. It
would be negligent for us to not have QB of the future as an option on the
table in the draft, and our plans probably vary based on if we get a QB we feel
like we can work with. I think what
should happen is that if we draft a QB we really like, we should let Kirk ride
his contract out, and if not we should look at giving him another 2 years
guaranteed and 2 years of low salary with incentives to get it higher if he
wants that and we can get out of if we need to.
I just don’t think there’s any way to guarantee him big QB money past 2025
as he’d be 38 in 2026.
If we needed the money to go all in this year, and we needed
to redo his contract to get the money, that’d be one thing, but I just don’t
think we can rebuild this roster that quickly.
I think we probably have to be looking at 2023 as year to build our
foundation on defense and 2024 as the year to be SB competitive.
At the bold, its intuitive and that might very well end-up the case...
We'll see if they shake things up with FA/Draft. I have no idea if that's how KOC/KAM are viewing things.
As Guru points out, the Vikings may be ok with some extension, but for how long may be at odds with what the KC camp wants.
$42mm/year seems about right for him.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ medaille said:
I just don’t think it makes sense for the team to address
Cousins contract before the draft. I
think Cousins has a lot of incentive to get locked up long term prior to the
draft and a lot of the urgency is from his camp. I think long term plans become a lot more
solid after we figure out how the draft goes and we can give him an extension
later this offseason if we want to. It
would be negligent for us to not have QB of the future as an option on the
table in the draft, and our plans probably vary based on if we get a QB we feel
like we can work with. I think what
should happen is that if we draft a QB we really like, we should let Kirk ride
his contract out, and if not we should look at giving him another 2 years
guaranteed and 2 years of low salary with incentives to get it higher if he
wants that and we can get out of if we need to.
I just don’t think there’s any way to guarantee him big QB money past 2025
as he’d be 38 in 2026.
If we needed the money to go all in this year, and we needed
to redo his contract to get the money, that’d be one thing, but I just don’t
think we can rebuild this roster that quickly.
I think we probably have to be looking at 2023 as year to build our
foundation on defense and 2024 as the year to be SB competitive.
At the bold, its intuitive and that might very well end-up the case...
We'll see if they shake things up with FA/Draft. I have no idea if that's how KOC/KAM are viewing things.
As Guru points out, the Vikings may be ok with some extension, but for how long may be at odds with what the KC camp wants.
$42mm/year seems about right for him.
42 M per year is right for KC? Josh Allen is only 43, Pat Mahomes is 45, Kirk is no where near the level of player that they are and he is getting old. I would say, assuming you are going to over pay, he is worth no more than the 37.5 avg that Carr is shown as getting, which isnt really even that high since only 60 million is guaranteed so he is essentially playing for about 30 million a year, which is much more inline with what I said the team could justify for the position given the salaries they have to play KCs supporting cast to over come his short comings. No QB is perfect, but the less that they can do on their own ( in Kirks case its his lack of extending plays, or making plays with his legs ) then the better OL, running game, and receivers they need to compete at a high level. Kirks elite passing abilities only go so far when he is a virtual statue otherwise.
He wont play for that little, but the story doesnt change, so if why keep paying him high money if you wont have the team around him to get to the next level, trade him or let him play it out and move on.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ medaille said:
I just don’t think it makes sense for the team to address
Cousins contract before the draft. I
think Cousins has a lot of incentive to get locked up long term prior to the
draft and a lot of the urgency is from his camp. I think long term plans become a lot more
solid after we figure out how the draft goes and we can give him an extension
later this offseason if we want to. It
would be negligent for us to not have QB of the future as an option on the
table in the draft, and our plans probably vary based on if we get a QB we feel
like we can work with. I think what
should happen is that if we draft a QB we really like, we should let Kirk ride
his contract out, and if not we should look at giving him another 2 years
guaranteed and 2 years of low salary with incentives to get it higher if he
wants that and we can get out of if we need to.
I just don’t think there’s any way to guarantee him big QB money past 2025
as he’d be 38 in 2026.
If we needed the money to go all in this year, and we needed
to redo his contract to get the money, that’d be one thing, but I just don’t
think we can rebuild this roster that quickly.
I think we probably have to be looking at 2023 as year to build our
foundation on defense and 2024 as the year to be SB competitive.
At the bold, its intuitive and that might very well end-up the case...
We'll see if they shake things up with FA/Draft. I have no idea if that's how KOC/KAM are viewing things.
As Guru points out, the Vikings may be ok with some extension, but for how long may be at odds with what the KC camp wants.
$42mm/year seems about right for him.
42 M per year is right for KC? Josh Allen is only 43, Pat Mahomes is 45, Kirk is no where near the level of player that they are and he is getting old. I would say, assuming you are going to over pay, he is worth no more than the 37.5 avg that Carr is shown as getting, which isnt really even that high since only 60 million is guaranteed so he is essentially playing for about 30 million a year, which is much more inline with what I said the team could justify for the position given the salaries they have to play KCs supporting cast to over come his short comings. No QB is perfect, but the less that they can do on their own ( in Kirks case its his lack of extending plays, or making plays with his legs ) then the better OL, running game, and receivers they need to compete at a high level. Kirks elite passing abilities only go so far when he is a virtual statue otherwise.
He wont play for that little, but the story doesnt change, so if why keep paying him high money if you wont have the team around him to get to the next level, trade him or let him play it out and move on.
I was recalling Danny Dimes signing for $41mm so thats where I came-up with the $42
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