Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
How many average joe teams have lombardis to show for it? If you overpay for any position you have to cut it from somewhere Now how many teams that had top 10 O and Ds won the SB?
EVERY team that makes a run, likely has some point in their near past where they say, this isnt working, take a step back and retool and then move forward again. I just tend to think that when you see a failed pattern of close but not close enough, you take that step back, thats how KC was with Smith, thats how that Patriots were with Bledsoe IIRC, hell wasnt Montana still doing pretty good when they brought in Young? Every team has a time to take that step back, I just happen to think this is our time, if you have the right people in the coaches chair, and the right people in the front office, which most seem to think we do, then the fear of becoming the bears or browns, or other... is just hyperbole.
This average Joe team won 13 games last year with a good offense and the worst defense we've seen in two decades. I have an idea. Rather than dumping the player most responsible for those 13 wins, how about we fix the defense? I know you think we'll need Aaron Donald, Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White to do that, but I think bringing in a DC who blitzes more in one game than the previous guy did all year, and adding a couple players to that side, could go a long ways toward moving it from the bottom to the middle. This CAN be done. And it gives us a better chance at a championship than a tear down.
But you want to add a QB while we still have Cousins? I'm all for it.
again you and your reading comprehension....
i didnt say a word about dumping Jefferson or Darrisaw. I would say there were as or more instrumental in last years success as your boy. and replacing a 35 year old QB with 1 career playoff win is hardly tearing anything down. you really cant help yourself can you? you just have to try and twist the shit out of anything anybody you disagree with says, really makes it a joy to interact with you.
and that defense looked just as bad the year before when it was blitzing once in a while, its a lack of quality players on that D that are holding it back IMO and the ones that are/were quality are getting on in years and either were screwed by being surrounded by suck, or are just hitting the wall themselves. cant blame it all on the scheme, scheme doesnt keep CBs from covering or any of them from making tackles or defending passes they are in position to defend. Doesnt keep the pass rushers from getting home on the QB either.
So why don't you just cut to the chase, then, so there's no confusion? What exactly is your plan for the future? Most of us have offered some ideas, cuts here, extensions there, some free agents and draft picks. So what are your ideas beyond just constant, solutionless bitching? I know you want to get rid of our QB. And Hunter. And just last week you were entertaining the idea of trading Justin Jefferson. So do we have any players left after the Jimmy plan? Skol Nation wants to know!
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
How many average joe teams have lombardis to show for it? If you overpay for any position you have to cut it from somewhere Now how many teams that had top 10 O and Ds won the SB?
EVERY team that makes a run, likely has some point in their near past where they say, this isnt working, take a step back and retool and then move forward again. I just tend to think that when you see a failed pattern of close but not close enough, you take that step back, thats how KC was with Smith, thats how that Patriots were with Bledsoe IIRC, hell wasnt Montana still doing pretty good when they brought in Young? Every team has a time to take that step back, I just happen to think this is our time, if you have the right people in the coaches chair, and the right people in the front office, which most seem to think we do, then the fear of becoming the bears or browns, or other... is just hyperbole.
This average Joe team won 13 games last year with a good offense and the worst defense we've seen in two decades. I have an idea. Rather than dumping the player most responsible for those 13 wins, how about we fix the defense? I know you think we'll need Aaron Donald, Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White to do that, but I think bringing in a DC who blitzes more in one game than the previous guy did all year, and adding a couple players to that side, could go a long ways toward moving it from the bottom to the middle. This CAN be done. And it gives us a better chance at a championship than a tear down.
But you want to add a QB while we still have Cousins? I'm all for it.
again you and your reading comprehension....
i didnt say a word about dumping Jefferson or Darrisaw. I would say there were as or more instrumental in last years success as your boy. and replacing a 35 year old QB with 1 career playoff win is hardly tearing anything down. you really cant help yourself can you? you just have to try and twist the shit out of anything anybody you disagree with says, really makes it a joy to interact with you.
and that defense looked just as bad the year before when it was blitzing once in a while, its a lack of quality players on that D that are holding it back IMO and the ones that are/were quality are getting on in years and either were screwed by being surrounded by suck, or are just hitting the wall themselves. cant blame it all on the scheme, scheme doesnt keep CBs from covering or any of them from making tackles or defending passes they are in position to defend. Doesnt keep the pass rushers from getting home on the QB either.
So why don't you just cut to the chase, then, so there's no confusion? What exactly is your plan for the future? Most of us have offered some ideas, cuts here, extensions there, some free agents and draft picks. So what are your ideas beyond just constant, solutionless bitching? I know you want to get rid of our QB. And Hunter. And just last week you were entertaining the idea of trading Justin Jefferson. So do we have any players left after the Jimmy plan? Skol Nation wants to know!
I posted that on JJ several weeks ago I believe and it wasn't my position, it was something I heard or ran across and shared it here. I posted it for conversation. I could see an angle of merit based on what direction we wanted to go with the team. If they really truly coveted a QB and the only way was to move JJ, maybe but it would have to be for the picks for the. QB as well as a lot more, think the walker trade and then some.
As far as what I would do now. I've said it many times, if KC won't leave any meat on the bone for some other dogs to eat, try amd trade him now for some quality picks, or let him run out his deal and move on. Target Qb or Qbs in the draft and or other shit team failures that KOC may think have merit, put most of the available remaining resources into studs for the IOL and DL, LB and then once we have those positions covered, and once again a healthy cap, focus on the skill positions like WR, DB, and lastly RB, these have the shortest shelf life, and often the highest prime veteran contracts outside of QB so leave them to the end. Like I've said for a year now, IMO we aren't as close as some want to believe and that 13 win season doesn't paint the whole picture. At least half of those 13 wins were a coin flip. A single play here or there and they are loses. I know its en vogue to blame the D, but the O shit the bed plenty in many instances last year leading to many close game victories and loses.
Yes KOC should improve, possibly KC improves, but overall I don't except a new D coach to be able to make chicken salad out of the chicken shit that will be left for him to work with once we are under the cap, unless they decide to keep stacking the hits into future years, which just makes those years as hard or harder to field a decent team.
My plan would be to start trying to build a contending roster not trying to build around 1 above average aging player.
honestly, i have a hard time believing that the Niners are going to let this window they have close waiting for Lance or Purdy to come around or heal, maybe they are good with that, but I have to think that being on the cusp as long as they have been and not getting there is starting to sting. I would be interested in seeing what they would offer for KC, a couple thirds this year and next years first? maybe throw in one of those young arms since they likely wouldnt have 2 to groom behind KC if they were wanting to extend him.
resign Mullens if they thought enough of him, or flip one of those thirds for one of the young "busts" around the league that KOC may want a shot with. I might be wrong on the 9ers, but if I was a fan, I would be looking for a QB upgrade. Maybe their OL isnt any better than ours and KC would get killed? I dont really know, but that supporting cast of RB, TE, and WR, with that D, if he couldnt get it done there, he certainly would never likely get it done here before his career is over.
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Cousins is due to be paid 15M of his bonus next week.
“There have been discussions, but nothing is immenet right now. He has a roster bonus of $20 million that will be earned later this week and will need to be paid $15 million of it by next week, so it’s kinda sort of a soft deadline to get something done, but I’m not sensing any momentum toward that and it is quite possible that he plays out the last year of his deal. And when we’re sitting here next year Ian for free agency frenzy, we might once again talk about (Kirk) Cousins again being a free agent.”
I wonder if the Vikings arrange to pay 10M of that and then try to trade him when he would only have a 20M salary? Would they do that in an effort to get a higher pick?
Is Cousins even worth a 1st round pick? If so, what team would do it? Jets at 13?
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Wonder how far apart they are in terms?
IF this is the case, there is certainly more pressure on the org to get a young gun in sooner than later and sit behind KC a year.
I suppose the obvious option 2 is to draft someone next year and resign KC then or some vet journeymen to helm the offense in 24.
Either way, JJ and Hock will be watching this closely.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Cousins is due to be paid 15M of his bonus next week.
“There have been discussions, but nothing is immenet right now. He has a roster bonus of $20 million that will be earned later this week and will need to be paid $15 million of it by next week, so it’s kinda sort of a soft deadline to get something done, but I’m not sensing any momentum toward that and it is quite possible that he plays out the last year of his deal. And when we’re sitting here next year Ian for free agency frenzy, we might once again talk about (Kirk) Cousins again being a free agent.”
I wonder if the Vikings arrange to pay 10M of that and then try to trade him when he would only have a 20M salary? Would they do that in an effort to get a higher pick?
Is Cousins even worth a 1st round pick? If so, what team would do it? Jets at 13?
No team would give up a 1st round pick for Cousins. We might get a couple mid round picks for him, but that's about it. I thought we could have traded him to Cleveland or San Francisco over the last couple years and it would have brought us the best package in trade compensation, but now he is 35 and any team trading for him will be facing the same problems the Vikings have in that he is a short term answer and is going to want a lot of guaranteed money in an extension. The Vikings won't trade him though as they have absolutely no viable transition option. They'll let him play this out and hope they are better positioned to acquire a quarterback next offseason.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Cousins is due to be paid 15M of his bonus next week.
“There have been discussions, but nothing is immenet right now. He has a roster bonus of $20 million that will be earned later this week and will need to be paid $15 million of it by next week, so it’s kinda sort of a soft deadline to get something done, but I’m not sensing any momentum toward that and it is quite possible that he plays out the last year of his deal. And when we’re sitting here next year Ian for free agency frenzy, we might once again talk about (Kirk) Cousins again being a free agent.”
I wonder if the Vikings arrange to pay 10M of that and then try to trade him when he would only have a 20M salary? Would they do that in an effort to get a higher pick?
Is Cousins even worth a 1st round pick? If so, what team would do it? Jets at 13?
No team would give up a 1st round pick for Cousins. We might get a couple mid round picks for him, but that's about it. I thought we could have traded him to Cleveland or San Francisco over the last couple years and it would have brought us the best package in trade compensation, but now he is 35 and any team trading for him will be facing the same problems the Vikings have in that he is a short term answer and is going to want a lot of guaranteed money in an extension. The Vikings won't trade him though as they have absolutely no viable transition option. They'll let him play this out and hope they are better positioned to acquire a quarterback next offseason.
If we made the salray palatable theres all kinds of teams that would trade a 1st for a top 10 win now QB. Pus they could resign him to keep him around.
I tend to think we’ll resign him anyway.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Wonder how far apart they are in terms?
IF this is the case, there is certainly more pressure on the org to get a young gun in sooner than later and sit behind KC a year.
I suppose the obvious option 2 is to draft someone next year and resign KC then or some vet journeymen to helm the offense in 24.
Either way, JJ and Hock will be watching this closely.
I don't know if its necessarily a difference in what he is worth in $ as its an impasse in how they want to move forward. Kirk is going to be 35 and has been relatively healthy. He doesn't want to continue down the year to year path. From what I heard he is looking for a deal around $42M for 3 years past this upcoming season. 100% guaranteed for injury and the first 3 years fully guaranteed. So if you include this year think of it as a 4 year $162M contract. Without knowing specifics lets just call it $120-$130M guaranteed at signing.
On the Vikings side I don't think they're 100% sold they can win with Kirk and don't want to be locked into him for JJ & Darrisaw's prime years. So preferably they would get another 1 year tacked on to his current deal that controls him and opens up some cap in 2023 while bringing them back to the table next off-season. It also lets them continue to look for a long-term successor if that is the route they want to go down.
Really the only solution I feel is Kirk agreeing to a longer term extension with only the first 2 years being guaranteed in 23/24. Accomplishes what the Vikings want, but does that really help Kirk? There is just no good means to an end here if the Vikings aren't willing to commit. I also find is suspect this is starting to float through the media, which really suggests Kirk and his reps aren't so thrilled with this.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Per Rappoport, a contract extension for Cousins "doesn't appear to be in the cards" and Cousins will play out the last season of his contract in Minnesota
Cousins is due to be paid 15M of his bonus next week.
“There have been discussions, but nothing is immenet right now. He has a roster bonus of $20 million that will be earned later this week and will need to be paid $15 million of it by next week, so it’s kinda sort of a soft deadline to get something done, but I’m not sensing any momentum toward that and it is quite possible that he plays out the last year of his deal. And when we’re sitting here next year Ian for free agency frenzy, we might once again talk about (Kirk) Cousins again being a free agent.”
I wonder if the Vikings arrange to pay 10M of that and then try to trade him when he would only have a 20M salary? Would they do that in an effort to get a higher pick?
Is Cousins even worth a 1st round pick? If so, what team would do it? Jets at 13?
No team would give up a 1st round pick for Cousins. We might get a couple mid round picks for him, but that's about it. I thought we could have traded him to Cleveland or San Francisco over the last couple years and it would have brought us the best package in trade compensation, but now he is 35 and any team trading for him will be facing the same problems the Vikings have in that he is a short term answer and is going to want a lot of guaranteed money in an extension. The Vikings won't trade him though as they have absolutely no viable transition option. They'll let him play this out and hope they are better positioned to acquire a quarterback next offseason.
The niners are built to win now with now true QB on the roster that would instill hope. 2 decent prospects or KC for a once a decade or two roster, you make that move. One of the prospects, next years first, and a couple of those dozens of 3rd rounders they have this yeat.
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