It's really hard to say. I think with a marginally better DC/scheme. we could have been 13-4 but based on solid performance rather than dramatic plays.
I get that people are railing on KAM for his draft but his top 2 picks got injured before I really expected them to shine, and I struggle to hold that against him.
I think KOC clearly looks inexperienced, but talented in the passing game. The rushing game wasn't good. Our offense wasn't balanced or multifaceted. He couldn't keep Cousins protected. We didn't really seem to have much adaptation in our offense to counter different strategies defenses used against us. I think we had enough talent on our offense that they should have been a top 5 offense rather than a top 10-15 offense.
Regarding defense, whoever chose this scheme, should be taken out back. The Fangio defense isn't a stand-alone scheme. We should only have been using it occasionally when situations called for it. We certainly shouldn't have been using it when playing. I think our defense wasn't cohesive and well trained. So we had the worst of both worlds, we let everything underneath just happen without defense and then screw ups that gave up big plays. I think our defense if we keep the same staff and scheme, but cut all of our expensive veteran players and replace them with cost effective players will be a shit show.
I think it's a little bit of an oxy-moron to both reboot the cap and keep Cousins. He's not old old, but if it takes 2 years to refresh the roster, how long of a window will you have with him?
18 years into it , and the Wilfs' have been sloooooooooow learners.
They've stabilized and improved the Organization value from 600 Mil to 3.9 Billions in that time. Yay?
When JJ decides to leave , in the exact same way Diggs did, I won't blame him.
It's a business, and the Wilfs don't do Superbowls.
I get it.
The Offense is ready to compete for the NFC Title now. As we saw all year, the Defense isn't. In fact it's so bad and disparity between the two is miles wide, I don't know how we can fix this while we have Cousins under the last year of his contract. We are over the cap, we have only 4 draft picks(1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th), we have aging veterans in several key positions, and we have overpriced veterans who's salaries are in their baloon years due to how the money was pushed back to the end of their deals. Kwesi's strategy of a "competitive rebuild" isn't going to work for this Defense when you only have 1 year left of Kirk. So where does that leave us? I think the only option is that we will be forced to take some drastic measures to improve this defense because the lack of Cap and Picks has put a gun to Kwesi's head and there is a bullet in every chamber. Even if we could somehow improve to getting closer to average, it would make a huge difference on our ability to be a contender. Scheme change is the first order of business because you will have to substitute the younger players that we already have for the Veterans we can no longer afford. Scheming the defensive improvement doesn't cost you a penny. Bring someone in that has the ability to creatively craft a defense that matches the skills of your Personnel. This isn't Donatell.
Next up is Cuts. Thielen $19 Million, Harry $19 Million, Z.Smith $15 Million, Cook $14 Million, and Kendricks $11 Million. Now that seems like a lot of cap space you would be opening up to add new blood in free agency, but you also have to factor in the Dead Cap space for each one those players. That's one of the reasons I kept Hunter. His cap hit next year is only $13 Million, but his dead cap if you cut him is $18 million. This is all per Spotrac.
Dead Cap if those players are released: Thielen $13 Million, Harry $11 Million, Z.Smith $3 Million, Cook $6 Million, Kendricks $3 Million. So the $78 in Cap Cuts actually nets out to $42 Million after the dead money is factored in. We also have over $3 Million in dead cap from previous years that carries over to 2023. As we sit today without doing anything, Spotrac has us at $13.3 Million over the salary cap for next season when you factor in everything including your draft pic salaries. Kwesi and Brez have a lot of work to do in order to make this defense competitive enough in Kirk's last year assuming they don't extend him.
Quote: @medaille said:
It's really hard to say. I think with a marginally better DC/scheme. we could have been 13-4 but based on solid performance rather than dramatic plays.
I get that people are railing on KAM for his draft but his top 2 picks got injured before I really expected them to shine, and I struggle to hold that against him.
I think KOC clearly looks inexperienced, but talented in the passing game. The rushing game wasn't good. Our offense wasn't balanced or multifaceted. He couldn't keep Cousins protected. We didn't really seem to have much adaptation in our offense to counter different strategies defenses used against us. I think we had enough talent on our offense that they should have been a top 5 offense rather than a top 10-15 offense.
Regarding defense, whoever chose this scheme, should be taken out back. The Fangio defense isn't a stand-alone scheme. We should only have been using it occasionally when situations called for it. We certainly shouldn't have been using it when playing. I think our defense wasn't cohesive and well trained. So we had the worst of both worlds, we let everything underneath just happen without defense and then screw ups that gave up big plays. I think our defense if we keep the same staff and scheme, but cut all of our expensive veteran players and replace them with cost effective players will be a shit show.
I think it's a little bit of an oxy-moron to both reboot the cap and keep Cousins. He's not old old, but if it takes 2 years to refresh the roster, how long of a window will you have with him?
Wait, it wasn't a shit show the last 3 years?
Quote: @Riphawkins said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Riphawkins said:
Pretty high
One year in and they won the division. KAM and KOC will or at least should get better at decision making. I was honestly surprised by some of the cuts made this past offseason. Hard decisions will be made and I think KAM can make them. I don’t think there is a reason to think he wouldn’t want to put the best product out there.
The Wilf family just needs to stay out of the way a little bit. I know they wanted a soft retooling instead of a complete rebuild, which I agree with. Blowing up a roster just because never made sense to me.
Pinning Donatell on KOC is fair, however you have to look at the big picture that is the NFL coaching tree. Sometimes coordinators want more control or freedom to do what they want, or see the personnel on a team and say, Nope!We don’t know who was talked to or who was considered besides Donatell. Maybe other coaches didn’t want to attach themselves to KOC, thinking he’s young and it could hurt their career. You never know all the details.
Depth is something that will probably be lacking for at least another year. The decisions that take place this off season will impact that. You can’t do wholesale cuts and expect to be deep.
I hope this draft goes well, I hope they fix some of the problems on the defensive side of the ball, while still trying to add weapons and good depth on the O line.
Speaking of the O line, they were good at times, and they were bad at times. But, they were better than the past and they did see some young players step up and contribute. Brandel has become a very good swing tackle IMO, and honestly Bradbury stepped up his game. They’ll need to resign or replace this offseason. Is the o line elite? No, but name the starting 5 O linemen for the 6 Super Bowls Belicheat won.
I’m good with the path the Vikings are on. We’ll see in a few years who was right.
We could both be wrong.
Well, here is the situation. The Vikings are 7.4 million OVER the projected salary cap for 2023. We have a lot of older veteran players that we will need to make decisions on. There is not a single free agent on this roster I would bring back (including Bradbury) and what do we do with Cousins moving forward, who is once again going into the final year of his contract and will be 35 years old. We drafted 10 players last year and we have no idea if any of them can play or add any sort of quality depth. We have needs along the defensive line, at linebacker, we have no idea if any of the young corners on the roster are any good so does this also become a need? Thielen likely will be a salary cut in June, so finding a starting caliber receiver somewhere that can take the double and triple teams off JJ becomes a priority. We traded off draft picks for Reagor and Hockenson.
This team has huge question marks up and down the roster and I simply do not trust this front office to make the right decisions when the right decision was to blow this thing up last offseason. I would have gladly taken a 5-12 season this year with Baker Mayfield at the helm (per say), salary cap room, extra draft picks, and a top 5 draft pick heading into next season. Instead, we blew our wads trying to piece this together with duct tape, got bounced in the first round of the playoffs, and once again have to address the same problems and issues as last offseason.
Well, we all know youre not a Cousins fan, but he will be hard to replace unless you trade up and use valuable picks and ignore the reat of the roster, or trade for or sign a guy that hasn’t made it elsewhere.
Ed Ingram, Brian Asamoah, and Akaleb Evans all look like they can play, and 2 of these got substantial playing time. I have faith Cine can and will play.
Nailer looks like he can contribute, and Chandler could move up quickly if they move on from Cook and Mattison. which they probably will.
Every paints gllom and doom from the ‘22 draft class. I see a ton of potential. Everyone thinks 7 to 10 guys drafted should come in and start and be all pro. Reality says otherwise.
While I know potential doesn’t mean squat, it's what we have on this team. I guess I’m a glass half full guy.
As far as addressing the same problems goes, the biggest one was Zimmer being an asshat! They took care of that and like it ir not you havr to trust the system in olace until it doesn’t work. it worked, the Vikings won the North.
Maybe that is all the Wilfs want. Be conpetitive, keep fans in the stands, get me a return on my investment. if so, we’re Fricked!
I am actually a Cousins fan, but I understand the dynamics for what they are. He is a good, not great QB, he's 35 years old, costs us a lot of money every year, and we are always scrambling trying to figure out his contract situation.
As far as the rookies go, Ingram struggled most of the year. Asamoah didn't see a ton of action outside of special teams, and Evans we never saw enough of to form an opinion on. Our first two picks were complete busts. We have no idea what kind of player Cine is or will be after that injury, and Booth continued his injury MO he's had for years. We don't know if any of these guys can play or be long term starters for us. But more power to you if you see a ton of potential there
Quote: @Bullazin said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Its really hard to say after a single year. This off-season will be more telling since they have some tough decisions on how they want to reset the cap. Its inevitable if they want to have any competitive window with Jefferson, Darrisaw, Hockenson, etc..
KOC - I think there is good evidence he can build a strong culture. X's & O's I think the jury is still out. The scheme and offense they ran better fits the modern NFL but it really fell off down the stretch. The lack of a running game was deafening.
KAM - Draft left a lot to be desired, it was his first go at it. I actually think outside of the draft class he deserves a lot of credit for his FA/trade moves considering the hand he was dealt. Za'Darius Smith, Harrison Phillips, retaining Pat Pete, adding Jesse Davis and flipping him for a pick, etc. List goes on. His trade for Hockenson was bar far the best in-season trade across the NFL this year. If he can nail the player evaluation piece I actually feel very good about his outlook.
As for the Wilfs, sure, you can point out flaws. But they've made this an organization players want to play for. I wouldn't sell them short for that.
Well player evaluation is the biggest piece to being a GM and he clearly struggled in that department. My biggest gripe in his hire was his overall lack of experience. He fast tracked from being a day trader, to working in analytics, to NFL GM in a matter of 9 years. That's unheard of for a guy who never played football or was a scout. He's just a guy who thinks he is smarter than everybody else and tried playing "big baller" in his first draft only to look like a fool. He has as much to prove as anybody heading into next season in my opinion.
Its way too early to say his player eval is lacking. You have quite a negative outlook and have conveyed it regularly. its a good talker i guess, but complaining that our gm is a fool and thinks he is smarter than everyone else? Rubbish. take a step back and breathe brother.
It's fair to question his evaluation skills at this point based on his background and first draft. That's not being negative, that's just fact. He's done nothing and has a lot to prove this offseason as a talent evaluator.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Incomplete. But I feel good about the direction.
KAM identified Shelley and Tonga as mid-year acquisitions. Both of these guys were practice squad players who came in and started for us, and actually played fairly well. That's a good sign for the veteran scouting staff.
The draft was impressive as well. Not real happy about the 1st round trade-down comp, but the players were good. Ingram, Asamoah and Evans are future starters, with Nailor a possibility as well. And we haven't even heard from Cine and Booth yet.
KOC was good. Took basically the same roster, completely changed both the offensive and defensive schemes, and through better situational football, won 5 more games. Donatell was a big problem, though, and maybe they should've thought that one through a little more. We'll see how they respond to that.
We also don't know how they're going to approach sensitive contract situations with Peterson, Thielen, Harry, Kendricks, Cook, Cousins. A lot of tough decisions coming soon and we just have no precedence for how this group will approach them.
What part of the draft did you find "impressive?" That's the first time I've heard anyone describe our draft using that word. It was a dumpster fire, and when you factor in the trade downs with division rivals allowing them to acquire sorely needed playmakers, it takes on a new level of dumpster fires. We drafted 10 players, and outside of below average play from Ingram, we got nothing out of the entire draft class including no defensive contributions for a defense that ranked 31st in the league.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Incomplete. But I feel good about the direction.
KAM identified Shelley and Tonga as mid-year acquisitions. Both of these guys were practice squad players who came in and started for us, and actually played fairly well. That's a good sign for the veteran scouting staff.
The draft was impressive as well. Not real happy about the 1st round trade-down comp, but the players were good. Ingram, Asamoah and Evans are future starters, with Nailor a possibility as well. And we haven't even heard from Cine and Booth yet.
KOC was good. Took basically the same roster, completely changed both the offensive and defensive schemes, and through better situational football, won 5 more games. Donatell was a big problem, though, and maybe they should've thought that one through a little more. We'll see how they respond to that.
We also don't know how they're going to approach sensitive contract situations with Peterson, Thielen, Harry, Kendricks, Cook, Cousins. A lot of tough decisions coming soon and we just have no precedence for how this group will approach them.
What part of the draft did you find "impressive?" That's the first time I've heard anyone describe our draft using that word. It was a dumpster fire, and when you factor in the trade downs with division rivals allowing them to acquire sorely needed playmakers, it takes on a new level of dumpster fires. We drafted 10 players, and outside of below average play from Ingram, we got nothing out of the entire draft class including no defensive contributions for a defense that ranked 31st in the league.
Really? You think you can call a draft a failure after one season, in which three of our top five draft picks were hurt? Ridiculous, but I get it. They didn't draft who you wanted them to draft.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Incomplete. But I feel good about the direction.
KAM identified Shelley and Tonga as mid-year acquisitions. Both of these guys were practice squad players who came in and started for us, and actually played fairly well. That's a good sign for the veteran scouting staff.
The draft was impressive as well. Not real happy about the 1st round trade-down comp, but the players were good. Ingram, Asamoah and Evans are future starters, with Nailor a possibility as well. And we haven't even heard from Cine and Booth yet.
KOC was good. Took basically the same roster, completely changed both the offensive and defensive schemes, and through better situational football, won 5 more games. Donatell was a big problem, though, and maybe they should've thought that one through a little more. We'll see how they respond to that.
We also don't know how they're going to approach sensitive contract situations with Peterson, Thielen, Harry, Kendricks, Cook, Cousins. A lot of tough decisions coming soon and we just have no precedence for how this group will approach them.
What part of the draft did you find "impressive?" That's the first time I've heard anyone describe our draft using that word. It was a dumpster fire, and when you factor in the trade downs with division rivals allowing them to acquire sorely needed playmakers, it takes on a new level of dumpster fires. We drafted 10 players, and outside of below average play from Ingram, we got nothing out of the entire draft class including no defensive contributions for a defense that ranked 31st in the league.
Really? You think you can call a draft a failure after one season, in which three of our top five draft picks were hurt? Ridiculous, but I get it. They didn't draft who you wanted them to draft.
They didn't draft who ANYBODY wanted and if they had, they would probably be better off. We got zero impact from out draft class of 10 players this year and Kwesi opened himself up for criticism with the way he handled the draft. Year one blew up in his face, so yes, he is going to continue to be criticized until he makes better decisions in player evaluation. You can't judge a draft class after one season, but it's certainly not looking good. To call the draft "impressive" is a huge reach.
I wasn't impressed with KAM's first draft for a variety of reasons. I didn't like the trade comp for moving down with the Lions, and I didn't like trading a future picks to move back up for Evans after we had traded down a round earlier. Felt like KAM lost out on draft value multiple times, except for the trade down with the Packers where he actually did quite well in terms of value received. The first draft was not impressive. I think Asamoah and Evans flashed, but I don't think you can lock either into being starters yet. Same for Booth and Come... lots of potential, but injuries leave them as a question mark heading into next year. Ingram got better as the year went on, but he better be good for where we drafted him and also factoring in his history. Kind of a meh draft right now. We'll see how it looks in another year or two.
That said, KAM made some great acquisitions in Zadarius and Phillips in FA, the trade for Hock where we didn't give up much for a young stud TE who quickly showed he can be that secondary playmaker with JJ, and Tonga and Shelley were good mid season pick ups who played well. KAM feels like the anti-Spielman who had good drafts typically but his FA acquisitions usually left the team with glaring holes each year. If KAM can do better in the draft moving forward, we'll be all right.
No one should penalize O'Connell for Donatell. He did what most young offensive minded HCs do when they get hired. He brought in a veteran DC. McVay did this with Wade Phillips, LaFleur did it with Pettine, etc. Not a lot to complain about with Kevin... Completely changed the culture with this team, made them better situationally, he's charismatic, showed he's a good offensive mind, and won 13 games and the NFC North in his first season as HC. He needs to find a new DC and run the ball a bit more, but he's young, he'll learn, and he's ushering in a modern brand of football to the Vikings. We nailed this.
I get having some complaints, but I think we should all feel pretty good about our FO and HC moving forward. Arrow is pointing up IMO.
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