Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ Riphawkins said:
Pretty high
One year in and they won the division. KAM and KOC will or at least should get better at decision making. I was honestly surprised by some of the cuts made this past offseason. Hard decisions will be made and I think KAM can make them. I don’t think there is a reason to think he wouldn’t want to put the best product out there.
The Wilf family just needs to stay out of the way a little bit. I know they wanted a soft retooling instead of a complete rebuild, which I agree with. Blowing up a roster just because never made sense to me.
Pinning Donatell on KOC is fair, however you have to look at the big picture that is the NFL coaching tree. Sometimes coordinators want more control or freedom to do what they want, or see the personnel on a team and say, Nope!We don’t know who was talked to or who was considered besides Donatell. Maybe other coaches didn’t want to attach themselves to KOC, thinking he’s young and it could hurt their career. You never know all the details.
Depth is something that will probably be lacking for at least another year. The decisions that take place this off season will impact that. You can’t do wholesale cuts and expect to be deep.
I hope this draft goes well, I hope they fix some of the problems on the defensive side of the ball, while still trying to add weapons and good depth on the O line.
Speaking of the O line, they were good at times, and they were bad at times. But, they were better than the past and they did see some young players step up and contribute. Brandel has become a very good swing tackle IMO, and honestly Bradbury stepped up his game. They’ll need to resign or replace this offseason. Is the o line elite? No, but name the starting 5 O linemen for the 6 Super Bowls Belicheat won.
I’m good with the path the Vikings are on. We’ll see in a few years who was right.
We could both be wrong.
Well, here is the situation. The Vikings are 7.4 million OVER the projected salary cap for 2023. We have a lot of older veteran players that we will need to make decisions on. There is not a single free agent on this roster I would bring back (including Bradbury) and what do we do with Cousins moving forward, who is once again going into the final year of his contract and will be 35 years old. We drafted 10 players last year and we have no idea if any of them can play or add any sort of quality depth. We have needs along the defensive line, at linebacker, we have no idea if any of the young corners on the roster are any good so does this also become a need? Thielen likely will be a salary cut in June, so finding a starting caliber receiver somewhere that can take the double and triple teams off JJ becomes a priority. We traded off draft picks for Reagor and Hockenson.
This team has huge question marks up and down the roster and I simply do not trust this front office to make the right decisions when the right decision was to blow this thing up last offseason. I would have gladly taken a 5-12 season this year with Baker Mayfield at the helm (per say), salary cap room, extra draft picks, and a top 5 draft pick heading into next season. Instead, we blew our wads trying to piece this together with duct tape, got bounced in the first round of the playoffs, and once again have to address the same problems and issues as last offseason.
Well, we all know youre not a Cousins fan, but he will be hard to replace unless you trade up and use valuable picks and ignore the reat of the roster, or trade for or sign a guy that hasn’t made it elsewhere.
Ed Ingram, Brian Asamoah, and Akaleb Evans all look like they can play, and 2 of these got substantial playing time. I have faith Cine can and will play.
Nailer looks like he can contribute, and Chandler could move up quickly if they move on from Cook and Mattison. which they probably will.
Every paints gllom and doom from the ‘22 draft class. I see a ton of potential. Everyone thinks 7 to 10 guys drafted should come in and start and be all pro. Reality says otherwise.
While I know potential doesn’t mean squat, it's what we have on this team. I guess I’m a glass half full guy.
As far as addressing the same problems goes, the biggest one was Zimmer being an asshat! They took care of that and like it ir not you havr to trust the system in olace until it doesn’t work. it worked, the Vikings won the North.
Maybe that is all the Wilfs want. Be conpetitive, keep fans in the stands, get me a return on my investment. if so, we’re Fricked!
13 wins and the NFCN crown. I guess they did ok.
Incomplete. But I feel good about the direction.
KAM identified Shelley and Tonga as mid-year acquisitions. Both of these guys were practice squad players who came in and started for us, and actually played fairly well. That's a good sign for the veteran scouting staff.
The draft was impressive as well. Not real happy about the 1st round trade-down comp, but the players were good. Ingram, Asamoah and Evans are future starters, with Nailor a possibility as well. And we haven't even heard from Cine and Booth yet.
KOC was good. Took basically the same roster, completely changed both the offensive and defensive schemes, and through better situational football, won 5 more games. Donatell was a big problem, though, and maybe they should've thought that one through a little more. We'll see how they respond to that.
We also don't know how they're going to approach sensitive contract situations with Peterson, Thielen, Harry, Kendricks, Cook, Cousins. A lot of tough decisions coming soon and we just have no precedence for how this group will approach them.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
I'm just kind of curious as to where everyone is at now at seasons-end? Personally, my confidence level with the decision makers at the very top of this organization have not been this low since Red McCombs and Mike Tice were calling the shots:
- I think the Wilfs (while I admire their enthusiasm) don't have the slightest clue how to build a winning franchise. They are fans and make decisions like fans, even if it's not in the best interest of the franchise. That goes from extending Brad Childress after one good season where Favre carried the team, to going all in on this season when the sensible thing to do after making wholesale changes was to rebuild. Instead, we are in no man's land essentially with roster holes everywhere and salary cap issues to once again juggle. Their decision to hire KAM was hugely questionable at best.
- Speaking of KAM, I've been highly critical of him and the decisions he's made since being put in charge. His first draft was a disaster (not sure how else you classify it) and the lack of impact from this draft was a huge reason we didn't go any farther than we did. Not a single defensive draft pick made any sort of impact. His free agency additions fizzled down the stretch and this team won what we did on the fumes of what was left over from the Zimmer/Spielman era. I'll give him credit for Hockenson, but is anybody paying big money to any TE not named Kelce? That's a decision that will have to be weighed out this offseason or next. To me the verdict is still out on O'Connell and I'm not sure that hiring him over Harbaugh was ultimately the right decision.
- KOC, while I like him and think he did a good job with some things on offense, I'm not sure he was the best choice as head coach. I think most anybody could have squeezed offensive production out of what we had left in the pantry, but he also felt Donatell was the guy he wanted to run the defense and oversee this transition to a new scheme. That was his hire and his decision to do so was the biggest reason we didn't advance. Donatell was a disaster, a historically bad disaster, and KOC can choke on that decision all offseason because it was his own. I think most everybody knew Ed Donatell was a shit coach when he was hired, so how that escaped KOC...I have no idea, but it doesn't inspire any confidence in his decision making going forward.
My fear is we are prolonging an inevitable rebuild that really needed to start last offseason. We are going to try and squeeze every last ounce and mortgage the future to be competitive the next couple years to appease the Wilfs without ever being good enough to be legitimate contenders. This franchise is due for an overhaul. Laugh at Pace and the Bears all you want, but I can guarantee in two years they will have built it up the right way after tearing things down and will be long term contenders while the Vikings flounder because of decisions made at the top.
Sorry this is very long, but I need to get this off my chest.
I don't agree with all of your takes, but you make some good points. What I don't understand with Kam is how there was no contingency plan ready to go if the switch to a 3-4 scheme just wasn't feasible. For whatever reason you want to use, it was evident after the Eagles game there were major issues with the scheme, players not understanding or executing the scheme, lack of adjustments and poor in game coaching decisions, etc. that led to it's failure as a Defensive System for this Team and that continued throughout the Season. At what point does the GM need to step in and say "This isn't working, we need to adjust the scheme to fit the players we have"? To me, that blame lies on the GM and the Head Coach for not understanding the risk involved with switching the scheme and not recognizing you didn't have the existing personnel to run and execute a 3-4 early in the season when there was time to make a change. A seasoned GM with a good Football mind, and a Demonstrative Leader would have intervened. KAM is not that, and his lack of Football experience definitely showed IMO by his inability or unwillingness to step in and take action. One thing I really respect about the Wild's GM Billy Guerin is that he has regular sit downs with the Head Coach and provides a self scouting perspective throughout the season. He makes it very clear what is and what isn't working from his eyes and expects adjustments and change. Because he brings that tenacious attitude he had when he was a player to his GM role, he's not going to sit back and be passive. He's in charge, and he lets Dean and everybody else know he's in charge. KAM reminds me of the Sales Manager at Work who sits in his office all day long staring at the Fancy Dashboards they had IT create for him analyzing metrics and reports and using that data to tell you how to "sell better", "sell harder", even though he's never actually sold anything his entire career. There is no substitute for Strategy, and you can't replace Strategy with Metrics as it can have an undermining effect on your results. This is my biggest fear and concern with the current GM and we saw it play out this Season from a questionable draft to the failed Defensive Scheme. He's not a Football guy and doesn't have an instinctive Football Mind to help KOC when the train goes off the rails.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Incomplete. But I feel good about the direction.
KAM identified Shelley and Tonga as mid-year acquisitions. Both of these guys were practice squad players who came in and started for us, and actually played fairly well. That's a good sign for the veteran scouting staff.
The draft was impressive as well. Not real happy about the 1st round trade-down comp, but the players were good. Ingram, Asamoah and Evans are future starters, with Nailor a possibility as well. And we haven't even heard from Cine and Booth yet.
KOC was good. Took basically the same roster, completely changed both the offensive and defensive schemes, and through better situational football, won 5 more games. Donatell was a big problem, though, and maybe they should've thought that one through a little more. We'll see how they respond to that.
We also don't know how they're going to approach sensitive contract situations with Peterson, Thielen, Harry, Kendricks, Cook, Cousins. A lot of tough decisions coming soon and we just have no precedence for how this group will approach them.
Its a bit of an eye roll, but we cannot underestimate the "culture change" in Eagan and the impact its had on the field. If you read through a few things I just posted from Darrisaw and Bradbury, you'll see what I mean.
Top 3 to do:
Reset the cap
Drastically improve D personnel and scheme
Find a way to get a more consistent running game
10 things for KAM to doIn Adofo-Mensah's first offseason, he produced just one starter in the draft, guard Ed Ingram, and just one impact free agent, Za'Darius Smith. He also made an impressive midseason trade for tight end T.J. Hockenson.
O'Connell isn't a finished product, and he might want to avoid calling more pass plays with Cousins on the receiving end, but he deserves credit for turning a struggling, aging team into a 13-game winner.
Now it's Adofo-Mensah's turn to prove himself.Here's what his to-do list looks like:
- Work with O'Connell in hiring a new defensive coordinator who will be able to manage the transition from old, savvy veterans to young, more explosive athletes. It's a difficult job, but it can be done. Go back and look at the talent Tony Dungy had to work with when he made the Vikings a defensive powerhouse in the 1990s. Other than John Randle, he was working mostly with average NFL players.
2. Choose wisely and, perhaps, ruthlessly when deciding which veterans to retain. The Vikings' most admirable players are among those who either need to be cut or have their contracts restructured.
3. Sign Justin Jefferson to a large contract. This has to happen, and Adofo-Mensah and his staff need to find a way to accommodate the large contracts of Jefferson and Cousins. It won't be as hard as you might think, but this is where NFL general managers distinguish themselves.
4. Replace center Garrett Bradbury. Bradbury gives all he has, but he shouldn't have been a first-round draft pick and hasn't earned another contract. If the Vikings can upgrade at center, their offensive line should be quite good going forward.
5. As Thielen declines, decide whether K.J. Osborn should be the new No. 2 receiver, or whether the next No. 2 receiver will have to be brought in from the outside.
6. Get his top two draft picks, safety Lewis Cine and cornerback Andrew Booth, healthy and up to speed. If they play well in 2023, the defense could rapidly improve.
7. Keep Hunter. He wasn't the every-down force this season that he once was, but he was productive and finished the year healthy.
8. Follow the approach popularized by many of the league's best franchises, and save money at running back. Not since the 2013 season has a Super Bowl winner relied on an expensive star running back, when Seattle won big with Marshawn Lynch and an otherworldly defense. You can win it all with a running back committee or an affordable veteran. Dalvin Cook was healthy and productive this season, but he's no longer the centerpiece of the offense.
9. Seek athletes. The Vikings defense had plenty of experience and savvy. That doesn't matter much if you can't keep up with a receiver or shrug off a block. Spielman's strength was finding great athletes and having a coaching staff that could develop them. Remember, Hunter was a relatively unproductive college player who went in the third round. Adofo-Mensah needs more explosiveness and a defensive staff that can develop players.
10. Embrace the role of a public figure. Adofo-Mensah, who felt burned by an interview he did last summer with USA Today, rarely speaks publicly. He should. When first hired, he came across as charming. Now he looks like he's hiding. That's a bad look, and unnecessary for someone who is impressive and likable.
https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-vikings-gm-kwesi-adofo-mensah-coach-kevin-oconnells-offseason-jim-souhan-dalvin-cook/600243947/
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Its really hard to say after a single year. This off-season will be more telling since they have some tough decisions on how they want to reset the cap. Its inevitable if they want to have any competitive window with Jefferson, Darrisaw, Hockenson, etc..
KOC - I think there is good evidence he can build a strong culture. X's & O's I think the jury is still out. The scheme and offense they ran better fits the modern NFL but it really fell off down the stretch. The lack of a running game was deafening.
KAM - Draft left a lot to be desired, it was his first go at it. I actually think outside of the draft class he deserves a lot of credit for his FA/trade moves considering the hand he was dealt. Za'Darius Smith, Harrison Phillips, retaining Pat Pete, adding Jesse Davis and flipping him for a pick, etc. List goes on. His trade for Hockenson was bar far the best in-season trade across the NFL this year. If he can nail the player evaluation piece I actually feel very good about his outlook.
As for the Wilfs, sure, you can point out flaws. But they've made this an organization players want to play for. I wouldn't sell them short for that.
Well player evaluation is the biggest piece to being a GM and he clearly struggled in that department. My biggest gripe in his hire was his overall lack of experience. He fast tracked from being a day trader, to working in analytics, to NFL GM in a matter of 9 years. That's unheard of for a guy who never played football or was a scout. He's just a guy who thinks he is smarter than everybody else and tried playing "big baller" in his first draft only to look like a fool. He has as much to prove as anybody heading into next season in my opinion.
Its way too early to say his player eval is lacking. You have quite a negative outlook and have conveyed it regularly. its a good talker i guess, but complaining that our gm is a fool and thinks he is smarter than everyone else? Rubbish. take a step back and breathe brother.
KOC seems a good hire and paid dividends his first year. He improved many aspects and got us to a norse title.
I think thinkers would have gone Daboll, but the Giants acted swiftly and for good reason.
Quote: @Bullazin said:
KOC seems a good hire and paid dividends his first year. He improved many aspects and got us to a norse title.
I think thinkers would have gone Daboll, but the Giants acted swiftly and for good reason.
I liked Daboll, but I wanted someone younger, more progressive and more offense oriented. I got the guy I wanted. He rewarded me with a Norris title, a 13 win season his first year and with an aging/bad defense.
Lots of good thinking here, and of course we ALL have 20/20 hindsight. Crystal balls though?
I'm gonna give both KOC and KAM a pass this year. Anyone who predicted a 13-4 regular season record with a "competitive rebuild", I'm quite sure last spring we would all be asking what he/she was smoking.
They do get an A+ for entertainment value this season. Some of those comeback games were epic heart-stoppers.
The holes we all saw were pretty obvious this year...the four losses were all blowouts and once the momentum moved away, we flat out got exposed. I was hugely disappointed but not surprised in the last game end result. I watched the defense in particular last game and I pointed out some coaching flaws to my wife...no containment on the edge and at least a dozen other coverage errors. Bad scheming, period. I am not a fan of 3-4...Hunter never really was able to fully make the transition IMO. I personally don't think he's a natural linebacker.
I have some other suggestions of what I would do...but I'm not in charge, so I'll stifle those opinions. I have a high degree of faith that we are in far better shape today than in the last couple years of Zim/Spielman.
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