Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Riphawkins said:
Pretty high
One year in and they won the division. KAM and KOC will or at least should get better at decision making. I was honestly surprised by some of the cuts made this past offseason. Hard decisions will be made and I think KAM can make them. I don’t think there is a reason to think he wouldn’t want to put the best product out there.
The Wilf family just needs to stay out of the way a little bit. I know they wanted a soft retooling instead of a complete rebuild, which I agree with. Blowing up a roster just because never made sense to me.
Pinning Donatell on KOC is fair, however you have to look at the big picture that is the NFL coaching tree. Sometimes coordinators want more control or freedom to do what they want, or see the personnel on a team and say, Nope!We don’t know who was talked to or who was considered besides Donatell. Maybe other coaches didn’t want to attach themselves to KOC, thinking he’s young and it could hurt their career. You never know all the details.
Depth is something that will probably be lacking for at least another year. The decisions that take place this off season will impact that. You can’t do wholesale cuts and expect to be deep.
I hope this draft goes well, I hope they fix some of the problems on the defensive side of the ball, while still trying to add weapons and good depth on the O line.
Speaking of the O line, they were good at times, and they were bad at times. But, they were better than the past and they did see some young players step up and contribute. Brandel has become a very good swing tackle IMO, and honestly Bradbury stepped up his game. They’ll need to resign or replace this offseason. Is the o line elite? No, but name the starting 5 O linemen for the 6 Super Bowls Belicheat won.
I’m good with the path the Vikings are on. We’ll see in a few years who was right.
We could both be wrong.
Well, here is the situation. The Vikings are 7.4 million OVER the projected salary cap for 2023. We have a lot of older veteran players that we will need to make decisions on. There is not a single free agent on this roster I would bring back (including Bradbury) and what do we do with Cousins moving forward, who is once again going into the final year of his contract and will be 35 years old. We drafted 10 players last year and we have no idea if any of them can play or add any sort of quality depth. We have needs along the defensive line, at linebacker, we have no idea if any of the young corners on the roster are any good so does this also become a need? Thielen likely will be a salary cut in June, so finding a starting caliber receiver somewhere that can take the double and triple teams off JJ becomes a priority. We traded off draft picks for Reagor and Hockenson.
This team has huge question marks up and down the roster and I simply do not trust this front office to make the right decisions when the right decision was to blow this thing up last offseason. I would have gladly taken a 5-12 season this year with Baker Mayfield at the helm (per say), salary cap room, extra draft picks, and a top 5 draft pick heading into next season. Instead, we blew our wads trying to piece this together with duct tape, got bounced in the first round of the playoffs, and once again have to address the same problems and issues as last offseason.
We cut/trade Z. Smith, Cook, and Kendricks and suddenly we're in the neighborhood of +22 million in cap space. Like you mentioned there's no way Harry and Theilen are going to be brought back at their current deals, and ISJ and Reagor and his 2.4 million will be gone. Money won't be the issue. Lack of draft capital and the ability to move up or down is. I also don't know if this team has the scouting to see defensive talent, or the patience to build from the trenches out.
Yes, but that leaves you with big roster holes at rush end, running back, and middle linebacker. We have an out on Hicks's contract for next season and I'm assuming we use it, which would leave us having to replace both starting middle backers next season if you move Kendricks. There is just so much shit to try to figure out going into next season and we just don't have the cap space or draft picks to be able to address those roster holes. The first domino has to be a change at defensive coordinator then deciding what we are doing moving forward with scheme. Everything else has to be figured out after that first domino.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Riphawkins said:
Pretty high
One year in and they won the division. KAM and KOC will or at least should get better at decision making. I was honestly surprised by some of the cuts made this past offseason. Hard decisions will be made and I think KAM can make them. I don’t think there is a reason to think he wouldn’t want to put the best product out there.
The Wilf family just needs to stay out of the way a little bit. I know they wanted a soft retooling instead of a complete rebuild, which I agree with. Blowing up a roster just because never made sense to me.
Pinning Donatell on KOC is fair, however you have to look at the big picture that is the NFL coaching tree. Sometimes coordinators want more control or freedom to do what they want, or see the personnel on a team and say, Nope!We don’t know who was talked to or who was considered besides Donatell. Maybe other coaches didn’t want to attach themselves to KOC, thinking he’s young and it could hurt their career. You never know all the details.
Depth is something that will probably be lacking for at least another year. The decisions that take place this off season will impact that. You can’t do wholesale cuts and expect to be deep.
I hope this draft goes well, I hope they fix some of the problems on the defensive side of the ball, while still trying to add weapons and good depth on the O line.
Speaking of the O line, they were good at times, and they were bad at times. But, they were better than the past and they did see some young players step up and contribute. Brandel has become a very good swing tackle IMO, and honestly Bradbury stepped up his game. They’ll need to resign or replace this offseason. Is the o line elite? No, but name the starting 5 O linemen for the 6 Super Bowls Belicheat won.
I’m good with the path the Vikings are on. We’ll see in a few years who was right.
We could both be wrong.
Well, here is the situation. The Vikings are 7.4 million OVER the projected salary cap for 2023. We have a lot of older veteran players that we will need to make decisions on. There is not a single free agent on this roster I would bring back (including Bradbury) and what do we do with Cousins moving forward, who is once again going into the final year of his contract and will be 35 years old. We drafted 10 players last year and we have no idea if any of them can play or add any sort of quality depth. We have needs along the defensive line, at linebacker, we have no idea if any of the young corners on the roster are any good so does this also become a need? Thielen likely will be a salary cut in June, so finding a starting caliber receiver somewhere that can take the double and triple teams off JJ becomes a priority. We traded off draft picks for Reagor and Hockenson.
This team has huge question marks up and down the roster and I simply do not trust this front office to make the right decisions when the right decision was to blow this thing up last offseason. I would have gladly taken a 5-12 season this year with Baker Mayfield at the helm (per say), salary cap room, extra draft picks, and a top 5 draft pick heading into next season. Instead, we blew our wads trying to piece this together with duct tape, got bounced in the first round of the playoffs, and once again have to address the same problems and issues as last offseason.
We cut/trade Z. Smith, Cook, and Kendricks and suddenly we're in the neighborhood of +22 million in cap space. Like you mentioned there's no way Harry and Theilen are going to be brought back at their current deals, and ISJ and Reagor and his 2.4 million will be gone. Money won't be the issue. Lack of draft capital and the ability to move up or down is. I also don't know if this team has the scouting to see defensive talent, or the patience to build from the trenches out.
Yes, but that leaves you with big roster holes at rush end, running back, and middle linebacker. We have an out on Hicks's contract for next season and I'm assuming we use it, which would leave us having to replace both starting middle backers next season if you move Kendricks. There is just so much shit to try to figure out going into next season and we just don't have the cap space or draft picks to be able to address those roster holes. The first domino has to be a change at defensive coordinator then deciding what we are doing moving forward with scheme. Everything else has to be figured out after that first domino.
well the way things looked this year we need to replace both MLBs anyway. Rush end is a coin toss, and RB... i think we can get similar production for a lot less money.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Riphawkins said:
Pretty high
One year in and they won the division. KAM and KOC will or at least should get better at decision making. I was honestly surprised by some of the cuts made this past offseason. Hard decisions will be made and I think KAM can make them. I don’t think there is a reason to think he wouldn’t want to put the best product out there.
The Wilf family just needs to stay out of the way a little bit. I know they wanted a soft retooling instead of a complete rebuild, which I agree with. Blowing up a roster just because never made sense to me.
Pinning Donatell on KOC is fair, however you have to look at the big picture that is the NFL coaching tree. Sometimes coordinators want more control or freedom to do what they want, or see the personnel on a team and say, Nope!We don’t know who was talked to or who was considered besides Donatell. Maybe other coaches didn’t want to attach themselves to KOC, thinking he’s young and it could hurt their career. You never know all the details.
Depth is something that will probably be lacking for at least another year. The decisions that take place this off season will impact that. You can’t do wholesale cuts and expect to be deep.
I hope this draft goes well, I hope they fix some of the problems on the defensive side of the ball, while still trying to add weapons and good depth on the O line.
Speaking of the O line, they were good at times, and they were bad at times. But, they were better than the past and they did see some young players step up and contribute. Brandel has become a very good swing tackle IMO, and honestly Bradbury stepped up his game. They’ll need to resign or replace this offseason. Is the o line elite? No, but name the starting 5 O linemen for the 6 Super Bowls Belicheat won.
I’m good with the path the Vikings are on. We’ll see in a few years who was right.
We could both be wrong.
Well, here is the situation. The Vikings are 7.4 million OVER the projected salary cap for 2023. We have a lot of older veteran players that we will need to make decisions on. There is not a single free agent on this roster I would bring back (including Bradbury) and what do we do with Cousins moving forward, who is once again going into the final year of his contract and will be 35 years old. We drafted 10 players last year and we have no idea if any of them can play or add any sort of quality depth. We have needs along the defensive line, at linebacker, we have no idea if any of the young corners on the roster are any good so does this also become a need? Thielen likely will be a salary cut in June, so finding a starting caliber receiver somewhere that can take the double and triple teams off JJ becomes a priority. We traded off draft picks for Reagor and Hockenson.
This team has huge question marks up and down the roster and I simply do not trust this front office to make the right decisions when the right decision was to blow this thing up last offseason. I would have gladly taken a 5-12 season this year with Baker Mayfield at the helm (per say), salary cap room, extra draft picks, and a top 5 draft pick heading into next season. Instead, we blew our wads trying to piece this together with duct tape, got bounced in the first round of the playoffs, and once again have to address the same problems and issues as last offseason.
We cut/trade Z. Smith, Cook, and Kendricks and suddenly we're in the neighborhood of +22 million in cap space. Like you mentioned there's no way Harry and Theilen are going to be brought back at their current deals, and ISJ and Reagor and his 2.4 million will be gone. Money won't be the issue. Lack of draft capital and the ability to move up or down is. I also don't know if this team has the scouting to see defensive talent, or the patience to build from the trenches out.
Yes, but that leaves you with big roster holes at rush end, running back, and middle linebacker. We have an out on Hicks's contract for next season and I'm assuming we use it, which would leave us having to replace both starting middle backers next season if you move Kendricks. There is just so much shit to try to figure out going into next season and we just don't have the cap space or draft picks to be able to address those roster holes. The first domino has to be a change at defensive coordinator then deciding what we are doing moving forward with scheme. Everything else has to be figured out after that first domino.
well the way things looked this year we need to replace both MLBs anyway. Rush end is a coin toss, and RB... i think we can get similar production for a lot less money.
If we were smart and moved back to a 4-3, you keep Kendricks because he is one of the best backers in the game in that style of defense. I also wouldn't be so quick to move on from Dalvin Cook, who still has elite burst and shiftiness. There is a noticable dropoff when he isn't in the game at running back. However, if O'Connell isn't interested in establishing a running game, then yes, we could basically put anybody back there.
Its really hard to say after a single year. This off-season will be more telling since they have some tough decisions on how they want to reset the cap. Its inevitable if they want to have any competitive window with Jefferson, Darrisaw, Hockenson, etc..
KOC - I think there is good evidence he can build a strong culture. X's & O's I think the jury is still out. The scheme and offense they ran better fits the modern NFL but it really fell off down the stretch. The lack of a running game was deafening.
KAM - Draft left a lot to be desired, it was his first go at it. I actually think outside of the draft class he deserves a lot of credit for his FA/trade moves considering the hand he was dealt. Za'Darius Smith, Harrison Phillips, retaining Pat Pete, adding Jesse Davis and flipping him for a pick, etc. List goes on. His trade for Hockenson was bar far the best in-season trade across the NFL this year. If he can nail the player evaluation piece I actually feel very good about his outlook.
As for the Wilfs, sure, you can point out flaws. But they've made this an organization players want to play for. I wouldn't sell them short for that.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
Its really hard to say after a single year. This off-season will be more telling since they have some tough decisions on how they want to reset the cap. Its inevitable if they want to have any competitive window with Jefferson, Darrisaw, Hockenson, etc..
KOC - I think there is good evidence he can build a strong culture. X's & O's I think the jury is still out. The scheme and offense they ran better fits the modern NFL but it really fell off down the stretch. The lack of a running game was deafening.
KAM - Draft left a lot to be desired, it was his first go at it. I actually think outside of the draft class he deserves a lot of credit for his FA/trade moves considering the hand he was dealt. Za'Darius Smith, Harrison Phillips, retaining Pat Pete, adding Jesse Davis and flipping him for a pick, etc. List goes on. His trade for Hockenson was bar far the best in-season trade across the NFL this year. If he can nail the player evaluation piece I actually feel very good about his outlook.
As for the Wilfs, sure, you can point out flaws. But they've made this an organization players want to play for. I wouldn't sell them short for that.
Well player evaluation is the biggest piece to being a GM and he clearly struggled in that department. My biggest gripe in his hire was his overall lack of experience. He fast tracked from being a day trader, to working in analytics, to NFL GM in a matter of 9 years. That's unheard of for a guy who never played football or was a scout. He's just a guy who thinks he is smarter than everybody else and tried playing "big baller" in his first draft only to look like a fool. He has as much to prove as anybody heading into next season in my opinion.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Riphawkins said:
Pretty high
One year in and they won the division. KAM and KOC will or at least should get better at decision making. I was honestly surprised by some of the cuts made this past offseason. Hard decisions will be made and I think KAM can make them. I don’t think there is a reason to think he wouldn’t want to put the best product out there.
The Wilf family just needs to stay out of the way a little bit. I know they wanted a soft retooling instead of a complete rebuild, which I agree with. Blowing up a roster just because never made sense to me.
Pinning Donatell on KOC is fair, however you have to look at the big picture that is the NFL coaching tree. Sometimes coordinators want more control or freedom to do what they want, or see the personnel on a team and say, Nope!We don’t know who was talked to or who was considered besides Donatell. Maybe other coaches didn’t want to attach themselves to KOC, thinking he’s young and it could hurt their career. You never know all the details.
Depth is something that will probably be lacking for at least another year. The decisions that take place this off season will impact that. You can’t do wholesale cuts and expect to be deep.
I hope this draft goes well, I hope they fix some of the problems on the defensive side of the ball, while still trying to add weapons and good depth on the O line.
Speaking of the O line, they were good at times, and they were bad at times. But, they were better than the past and they did see some young players step up and contribute. Brandel has become a very good swing tackle IMO, and honestly Bradbury stepped up his game. They’ll need to resign or replace this offseason. Is the o line elite? No, but name the starting 5 O linemen for the 6 Super Bowls Belicheat won.
I’m good with the path the Vikings are on. We’ll see in a few years who was right.
We could both be wrong.
Well, here is the situation. The Vikings are 7.4 million OVER the projected salary cap for 2023. We have a lot of older veteran players that we will need to make decisions on. There is not a single free agent on this roster I would bring back (including Bradbury) and what do we do with Cousins moving forward, who is once again going into the final year of his contract and will be 35 years old. We drafted 10 players last year and we have no idea if any of them can play or add any sort of quality depth. We have needs along the defensive line, at linebacker, we have no idea if any of the young corners on the roster are any good so does this also become a need? Thielen likely will be a salary cut in June, so finding a starting caliber receiver somewhere that can take the double and triple teams off JJ becomes a priority. We traded off draft picks for Reagor and Hockenson.
This team has huge question marks up and down the roster and I simply do not trust this front office to make the right decisions when the right decision was to blow this thing up last offseason. I would have gladly taken a 5-12 season this year with Baker Mayfield at the helm (per say), salary cap room, extra draft picks, and a top 5 draft pick heading into next season. Instead, we blew our wads trying to piece this together with duct tape, got bounced in the first round of the playoffs, and once again have to address the same problems and issues as last offseason.
We cut/trade Z. Smith, Cook, and Kendricks and suddenly we're in the neighborhood of +22 million in cap space. Like you mentioned there's no way Harry and Theilen are going to be brought back at their current deals, and ISJ and Reagor and his 2.4 million will be gone. Money won't be the issue. Lack of draft capital and the ability to move up or down is. I also don't know if this team has the scouting to see defensive talent, or the patience to build from the trenches out.
Yes, but that leaves you with big roster holes at rush end, running back, and middle linebacker. We have an out on Hicks's contract for next season and I'm assuming we use it, which would leave us having to replace both starting middle backers next season if you move Kendricks. There is just so much shit to try to figure out going into next season and we just don't have the cap space or draft picks to be able to address those roster holes. The first domino has to be a change at defensive coordinator then deciding what we are doing moving forward with scheme. Everything else has to be figured out after that first domino.
well the way things looked this year we need to replace both MLBs anyway. Rush end is a coin toss, and RB... i think we can get similar production for a lot less money.
If we were smart and moved back to a 4-3, you keep Kendricks because he is one of the best backers in the game in that style of defense. I also wouldn't be so quick to move on from Dalvin Cook, who still has elite burst and shiftiness. There is a noticable dropoff when he isn't in the game at running back. However, if O'Connell isn't interested in establishing a running game, then yes, we could basically put anybody back there.
I dont know that there is a huge drop off from him to AM. DC led the league in rushes for no gain or a loss, AM doesnt always get positive yards, but I think I would have liked to see him in a bigger role at times as his running style is more punishing and was often more affective in the short windows that he got.
as far as Kendricks, maybe he hasnt lost his step, but damn he sure looked slow all season and that isnt just a result of scheme.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Its really hard to say after a single year. This off-season will be more telling since they have some tough decisions on how they want to reset the cap. Its inevitable if they want to have any competitive window with Jefferson, Darrisaw, Hockenson, etc..
KOC - I think there is good evidence he can build a strong culture. X's & O's I think the jury is still out. The scheme and offense they ran better fits the modern NFL but it really fell off down the stretch. The lack of a running game was deafening.
KAM - Draft left a lot to be desired, it was his first go at it. I actually think outside of the draft class he deserves a lot of credit for his FA/trade moves considering the hand he was dealt. Za'Darius Smith, Harrison Phillips, retaining Pat Pete, adding Jesse Davis and flipping him for a pick, etc. List goes on. His trade for Hockenson was bar far the best in-season trade across the NFL this year. If he can nail the player evaluation piece I actually feel very good about his outlook.
As for the Wilfs, sure, you can point out flaws. But they've made this an organization players want to play for. I wouldn't sell them short for that.
Well player evaluation is the biggest piece to being a GM and he clearly struggled in that department. My biggest gripe in his hire was his overall lack of experience. He fast tracked from being a day trader, to working in analytics, to NFL GM in a matter of 9 years. That's unheard of for a guy who never played football or was a scout. He's just a guy who thinks he is smarter than everybody else and tried playing "big baller" in his first draft only to look like a fool. He has as much to prove as anybody heading into next season in my opinion.
So is KAM the only reason the draft class flopped? What if the defensive coaching staff gave bad player recommendations based on the scheme? What if the training staff thought Booth was healthier than he was? Decision making is based on the inputs.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Its really hard to say after a single year. This off-season will be more telling since they have some tough decisions on how they want to reset the cap. Its inevitable if they want to have any competitive window with Jefferson, Darrisaw, Hockenson, etc..
KOC - I think there is good evidence he can build a strong culture. X's & O's I think the jury is still out. The scheme and offense they ran better fits the modern NFL but it really fell off down the stretch. The lack of a running game was deafening.
KAM - Draft left a lot to be desired, it was his first go at it. I actually think outside of the draft class he deserves a lot of credit for his FA/trade moves considering the hand he was dealt. Za'Darius Smith, Harrison Phillips, retaining Pat Pete, adding Jesse Davis and flipping him for a pick, etc. List goes on. His trade for Hockenson was bar far the best in-season trade across the NFL this year. If he can nail the player evaluation piece I actually feel very good about his outlook.
As for the Wilfs, sure, you can point out flaws. But they've made this an organization players want to play for. I wouldn't sell them short for that.
Well player evaluation is the biggest piece to being a GM and he clearly struggled in that department. My biggest gripe in his hire was his overall lack of experience. He fast tracked from being a day trader, to working in analytics, to NFL GM in a matter of 9 years. That's unheard of for a guy who never played football or was a scout. He's just a guy who thinks he is smarter than everybody else and tried playing "big baller" in his first draft only to look like a fool. He has as much to prove as anybody heading into next season in my opinion.
So is KAM the only reason the draft class flopped? What if the defensive coaching staff gave bad player recommendations based on the scheme? What if the training staff thought Booth was healthier than he was? Decision making is based on the inputs.
One thing you can never do is draft against trends and history. HARD STOP. Booth supposedly has never been totally healthy or reliable player. You simply can't hang your team's future on guys like that. Same with stats that aren't trending significantly year to year throughout college. Third is maturity/character level that should show up on and off the field.
The rest is a crapshoot.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Its really hard to say after a single year. This off-season will be more telling since they have some tough decisions on how they want to reset the cap. Its inevitable if they want to have any competitive window with Jefferson, Darrisaw, Hockenson, etc..
KOC - I think there is good evidence he can build a strong culture. X's & O's I think the jury is still out. The scheme and offense they ran better fits the modern NFL but it really fell off down the stretch. The lack of a running game was deafening.
KAM - Draft left a lot to be desired, it was his first go at it. I actually think outside of the draft class he deserves a lot of credit for his FA/trade moves considering the hand he was dealt. Za'Darius Smith, Harrison Phillips, retaining Pat Pete, adding Jesse Davis and flipping him for a pick, etc. List goes on. His trade for Hockenson was bar far the best in-season trade across the NFL this year. If he can nail the player evaluation piece I actually feel very good about his outlook.
As for the Wilfs, sure, you can point out flaws. But they've made this an organization players want to play for. I wouldn't sell them short for that.
Well player evaluation is the biggest piece to being a GM and he clearly struggled in that department. My biggest gripe in his hire was his overall lack of experience. He fast tracked from being a day trader, to working in analytics, to NFL GM in a matter of 9 years. That's unheard of for a guy who never played football or was a scout. He's just a guy who thinks he is smarter than everybody else and tried playing "big baller" in his first draft only to look like a fool. He has as much to prove as anybody heading into next season in my opinion.
So is KAM the only reason the draft class flopped? What if the defensive coaching staff gave bad player recommendations based on the scheme? What if the training staff thought Booth was healthier than he was? Decision making is based on the inputs.
As the old sayings go, the "proof is in the pudding" and the "buck stops with him" so yes, he is the biggest reason for draft class flop. If he wants to blame his poor decisions on bad info then he needs to revamp his entire analytics, medical, and scouting departments. For someone who was an analytics specialist you'd think the "info" portion would be the one area that would be squared away. I doubt we'll see any changes, which to me would indicate the draft flops were his decisions alone.
I was wondering if there is going to be any revisions to the scouting department since the transition in staff occurred so close to the draft. I feel like some things are positive and there is still work to do. It will be interesting now that the group has more time together. I am wondering about the plan for the defense. Obviously there are questions and decisions to be made and we'll see what happens next
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