It’s inappropriate to suggest that this seasons record is solely
on Cousins. Almost by definition, when a
lot of your games are tight, you really needed contribution from a lot of
players and if just one or two of those plays disappear the win is lost. I think it’s very likely that we cut a few of
our “underperforming veterans”, regress in 2023, and then look back at the sporadic
clutch plays they made in 2022 that weren’t being made by younger cheaper players. How many times this season has our woeful
defense stepped up at the end of the game to make a key stop. I think you could look at each of our veteran
players and find a couple key plays that if they didn’t do that one play, the
game would have been lost. That said I
do agree with the sentiment that Cousins was a key contributor to our wins and
he made a lot of clutch passes, but I also think he’s a factor in why the
offense frequently disappeared during the middle of the games, and it makes you
kind of wonder what would have to happen to get clutch Cousins for the whole
game.
I’m perfectly fine with winning a SB ugly and on the back of
more magic and unlikely fairy tail endings, but I’d also love to go into a game
expecting a win, because we’re better and having the game play out predictably.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The biggest change is that they've gotten Kirk to show some aggression situationally vs. solely read his progressions. It arguably has been one of the larger turning points if you could account for all the reasons they've improved in 1 score games.
With that said, I wouldn't put him on a pedestal quite yet. There have been a lot of missed opportunities and its statistically why its been one of his worst seasons in the NFL.
He's played to his contract, which has always been the case albeit the media didn't think so prior to this season. But there are still plenty of long-term questions (not next season) on how they want to approach quarterback since he'll be 35 prior to next season. He hasn't suffered any major injuries (knock on wood) but that 36-40 year range is where QBs typically drop-off.
New offense, new coaching staff, horrific defense......13 wins. Last year, better stats but....can't elevate a team, not clutch, etc. I guess if you're Kirk Cousins, you have to navigate the goalposts moving constantly and even then, don't expect much as far as respect. He'll never escape this narrative, especially since many fans have bought into it.
I'm far from putting him on a pedestal. I just don't get those that want to keep him in the basement.
He's far from the basement if you look at QB play around the league. But I think the narrative is rooted in "Who has he made better"? He's done his job and has done it well.
He has done it in spurts (look at the Saints playoff game) but he doesn't do it to the consistency of the elite QBs in the league.
So stats/records aside you're left in this limbo of a well-above QB lacking the consistent variance in his game to shake off another units poor performance and singlehandedly win the game.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The biggest change is that they've gotten Kirk to show some aggression situationally vs. solely read his progressions. It arguably has been one of the larger turning points if you could account for all the reasons they've improved in 1 score games.
With that said, I wouldn't put him on a pedestal quite yet. There have been a lot of missed opportunities and its statistically why its been one of his worst seasons in the NFL.
He's played to his contract, which has always been the case albeit the media didn't think so prior to this season. But there are still plenty of long-term questions (not next season) on how they want to approach quarterback since he'll be 35 prior to next season. He hasn't suffered any major injuries (knock on wood) but that 36-40 year range is where QBs typically drop-off.
New offense, new coaching staff, horrific defense......13 wins. Last year, better stats but....can't elevate a team, not clutch, etc. I guess if you're Kirk Cousins, you have to navigate the goalposts moving constantly and even then, don't expect much as far as respect. He'll never escape this narrative, especially since many fans have bought into it.
I'm far from putting him on a pedestal. I just don't get those that want to keep him in the basement.
He's far from the basement if you look at QB play around the league. But I think the narrative is rooted in "Who has he made better"? He's done his job and has done it well.
He has done it in spurts (look at the Saints playoff game) but he doesn't do it to the consistency of the elite QBs in the league.
So stats/records aside you're left in this limbo of a well-above QB lacking the consistent variance in his game to shake off another units poor performance and singlehandedly win the game.
Hey Geoff, not sure if you are still close to anyone in the front office or not, but any buzz about maybe taking a QB in next Spring's Draft?
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The biggest change is that they've gotten Kirk to show some aggression situationally vs. solely read his progressions. It arguably has been one of the larger turning points if you could account for all the reasons they've improved in 1 score games.
With that said, I wouldn't put him on a pedestal quite yet. There have been a lot of missed opportunities and its statistically why its been one of his worst seasons in the NFL.
He's played to his contract, which has always been the case albeit the media didn't think so prior to this season. But there are still plenty of long-term questions (not next season) on how they want to approach quarterback since he'll be 35 prior to next season. He hasn't suffered any major injuries (knock on wood) but that 36-40 year range is where QBs typically drop-off.
New offense, new coaching staff, horrific defense......13 wins. Last year, better stats but....can't elevate a team, not clutch, etc. I guess if you're Kirk Cousins, you have to navigate the goalposts moving constantly and even then, don't expect much as far as respect. He'll never escape this narrative, especially since many fans have bought into it.
I'm far from putting him on a pedestal. I just don't get those that want to keep him in the basement.
He has mentioned that he is starting to feel natural in the offense now. It took some time to get there, but having the second nature feel for a new system takes time. Hopefully all of the players on offense are starting to feel that now.
I don't get the conflicted reasoning that wants Cousins to be more aggressive yet gives him no credit for throwing it up to the best WR in football. Cousins has taken major steps this season, being aggressive, moving in the pocket, situational awareness, being clutch. All in 1 season. I have hope for the playoffs. Not sure if the D will do their part, but I imagine the offense will.
I really think Cousins has played well this season. Sometimes he's very frustrating, like holding the ball too long instead of throwing it away and he definitely throws WTF was that passes sometimes, but who doesn't?
The offense definitely has lulls but I question how much of that is him and how much is play calling, OL breakdowns etc.
Bottom line, he's not elite but not as bad as some make him out to be.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The biggest change is that they've gotten Kirk to show some aggression situationally vs. solely read his progressions. It arguably has been one of the larger turning points if you could account for all the reasons they've improved in 1 score games.
With that said, I wouldn't put him on a pedestal quite yet. There have been a lot of missed opportunities and its statistically why its been one of his worst seasons in the NFL.
He's played to his contract, which has always been the case albeit the media didn't think so prior to this season. But there are still plenty of long-term questions (not next season) on how they want to approach quarterback since he'll be 35 prior to next season. He hasn't suffered any major injuries (knock on wood) but that 36-40 year range is where QBs typically drop-off.
New offense, new coaching staff, horrific defense......13 wins. Last year, better stats but....can't elevate a team, not clutch, etc. I guess if you're Kirk Cousins, you have to navigate the goalposts moving constantly and even then, don't expect much as far as respect. He'll never escape this narrative, especially since many fans have bought into it.
I'm far from putting him on a pedestal. I just don't get those that want to keep him in the basement.
He's far from the basement if you look at QB play around the league. But I think the narrative is rooted in "Who has he made better"? He's done his job and has done it well.
He has done it in spurts (look at the Saints playoff game) but he doesn't do it to the consistency of the elite QBs in the league.
So stats/records aside you're left in this limbo of a well-above QB lacking the consistent variance in his game to shake off another units poor performance and singlehandedly win the game.
Hey Geoff, not sure if you are still close to anyone in the front office or not, but any buzz about maybe taking a QB in next Spring's Draft?
They've done due-diligence on the draft eligible QBs. I'm not 100% convinced it will be this off-season. As of today they just wouldn't short-change the roster too much if they were to pay a substantial price to move up.
More realistically I could see them look at QBs available on the trade market who are still on rookie deals. Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Mac Jones, etc. who may come available.
Connecting some tea leaves but this FO has quickly taken a liking to higher (top 3 round) draft picks they can acquire for pennies on the dollar. Think about the pedigree of Hockenson, Reagor, and Blacklock. It would be following that trend.
I knew Kirk was special when he chunked it up in Buffalo on 4th and 18 while singing "Jesus take the Wheel"
My thoughts on Kirk.
He’s made more money than some of you think he deserved or deserves. Therefore you think he’s not worth it or good enough. I don’t really think it’s as bad as some of you think it is. Just my opinion.
He’s a quality human being. Did (or does) Rodgers have a better skill set? Yes, but he’s a huge D Bag! A me first guy. He refused to attend off season workouts and blamed his WR’s for their lack of knowledge, effort, skill. Kirk beats himself up when he’s not playing well. Even if he’s thinking it, he doesn’t point the finger. He doesn’t stand in front of the press and say, “It wasn’t my call to kick the field goal, I wanted to go for it on 4th down”.
He’s not Mahomes. Some think those guys grown on trees and “we should have drafted (insert name here)” But, think about the guy you really wanted. What has he done? A few were all in on Mac Jones. Not so much now. Probably.
He came in under a coach who didn’t want him or his salary. He was following a magical ‘17 season where a really good guy made really good plays for a limited amount of time. Lightning struck with Case and when Cousins didn’t match him his first year in Minnesota, well he sucked.
I personally think he’s going to be here for quite a long time. I don’t think the Vikings will draft his successor this year or next. They might take a qb, but it won’t necessarily be to take Kirko’s place. It won’t be draft him this off season, let him learn for a year, and then he starts in ‘24.
I like Kirk, I like his QB play 95% of the time. I don’t think there is a guy out there who is cheaper and will put up the same numbers.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
while I agree that he deserves a lot of recognition, he was bailed on a lot of otherwise uncatchable balls by JJ. If we want to talk about why the team is where its at.... essentially the team MVP, I have to vote for JJ. of the 5 games where he was held for under 100 yards ( ok 98 since the cards game he only had 98) the Vikings lost 4 of those 5 games. ( I am also not counting the final bears game since they didnt let most the starters have a full game.) Sure he cant throw the ball to himself, but the circus catches and the range he showed this year, not to mention the beatings he has taken on some of those poorly placed balls or balls that shouldnt have been thrown, makes JJ my team MVP.
Kirk has played better in some ways this year, worse in some ways, his willingness to stand and deliver in the face of a pretty certain ass whooping is admirable, and his leadership has certainly come to the surface under a coach willing to let kirk be the man. I wouldnt give 2 shits for the kirko crap, I honestly dont care if he is cut out of a target ad, the next edition of GQ, or wears his baseball hat backwards, all I care about is if he gets the job done, and can we afford to make the team better around him to maybe, someday, win that fucking elusive SB. He gets the job done, and I have beat the other matter to death so... Nice season to Mr, Cousins.
All this to say you just don't really like Kirk all that much, and keep propping up the false narrative that everyone around him are the "real" heroes, with Kirk constantly putting receivers in unreasonable danger. The so called "beatings" JJ has taken from those poorly placed balls or balls that shouldn't have been thrown, isn't backed up by anything other than you said so.
Fact is, that 80-90% of this team's problems stems from the defensive side of the ball, i.e., bad scheme/play calling/coordinator, personnel, etc. Compare that to the approximate 10-20% of our offensive problems, which come from inexperienced play calling, offensive line play/personnel, etc. In my estimation 10% is completely attributable to incompetent O-line play, with another 5-10% of inefficiency attributable to a new coaching staff and poor play calling, and somewhere in the margins, QB play that might have out and out cost us a win.
Maybe you can take another crack at a more backhanded compliment, or what QB metric unlocks your happy dance, but I think the real issue is that we just haven't drafted well enough overall and ignored the trenches, while gambling on a few iffy skill positions that have flamed out.
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