Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still go back to the fact that we had Williams, Davis, and Kyle Hamilton all fall into our laps for the taking and we traded all the way down for terrible value to select a non-impact player who was running 4th on the depth chart before his catastrophic injury. Getting little to no return from this draft class has hurt this team down the stretch. People can stroke Kwesi all they want, but the fact is outside of adding Zadarius in free agency after he spurned the Ravens and trading for Hockenson mid season, he has done NOTHING in the way of adding impact and/or depth to this roster. Hicks and Phillips have made little impact on a defense that currently ranks 31st in total defense.
Kwesi has a lot to prove this offseason
Value aside since we didn't get market for the trade down I don't agree.
Jameson Williams would have been a fine pick and the Vikings liked him. He doesn't help you early in the season due to his injury which goes against what they were attempting to do this off-season. They would have taken Olave or Wilson if they had made it to their pick. Just didn't happen. Davis didn't have value to them and Tonga has been equally impressive off waivers. Kyle Hamilton didn't fit the defensive systems they wanted to play. You could argue with a scheme change if that answer changes. But you only know what you know.
Cine was a fine pick and still believe he'll play a big role moving forward. He didn't play early on but as a prospect, I personally was a big fan. The goal was to build a fast and physical backbone which then played into the Asamoah pick, who will be a starter next year. Akayleb Evans will at worst be a 4 year depth CB and Ingram is serviceable with some level of upside. Later on they picked up Otomewo, Chandler, and Nailor who are depth.
Not saying Kwesi won the draft, but it was far from a burning fire.
There was an article the other day about how the OC in Detroit hoped that Williams would pick things up faster than he has. He's been healthy for 5 games and he has one catch. Yeah, that one.
Now, this doesn't mean anything. Like I said before the draft, it's going to be some time before he starts making an impact. Even after he's 100% healthy, there's a period of confidence building.
What I don't understand is why so many thought he was a can't miss prospect. The speed is REAL, but there was some downside there that not many wanted to acknowledge.
Read another article about a month ago calling Jordan Davis an "afterthought." So many of the guys promoted by VikingNation aren't really setting the world on fire.
You know who's been amazing? That kid with the short arms.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still go back to the fact that we had Williams, Davis, and Kyle Hamilton all fall into our laps for the taking and we traded all the way down for terrible value to select a non-impact player who was running 4th on the depth chart before his catastrophic injury. Getting little to no return from this draft class has hurt this team down the stretch. People can stroke Kwesi all they want, but the fact is outside of adding Zadarius in free agency after he spurned the Ravens and trading for Hockenson mid season, he has done NOTHING in the way of adding impact and/or depth to this roster. Hicks and Phillips have made little impact on a defense that currently ranks 31st in total defense.
Kwesi has a lot to prove this offseason
Value aside since we didn't get market for the trade down I don't agree.
Jameson Williams would have been a fine pick and the Vikings liked him. He doesn't help you early in the season due to his injury which goes against what they were attempting to do this off-season. They would have taken Olave or Wilson if they had made it to their pick. Just didn't happen. Davis didn't have value to them and Tonga has been equally impressive off waivers. Kyle Hamilton didn't fit the defensive systems they wanted to play. You could argue with a scheme change if that answer changes. But you only know what you know.
Cine was a fine pick and still believe he'll play a big role moving forward. He didn't play early on but as a prospect, I personally was a big fan. The goal was to build a fast and physical backbone which then played into the Asamoah pick, who will be a starter next year. Akayleb Evans will at worst be a 4 year depth CB and Ingram is serviceable with some level of upside. Later on they picked up Otomewo, Chandler, and Nailor who are depth.
Not saying Kwesi won the draft, but it was far from a burning fire.
Read another article about a month ago calling Jordan Davis an "afterthought." So many of the guys promoted by VikingNation aren't really setting the world on fire.
Every year this happens.....but during the actual Draft in real time, the amount of meltdowns by knee jerk fans is off the charts. That's a ride I get off a long time ago, the bipolar aspect of fans and the Draft. Its ridiculous, really.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still go back to the fact that we had Williams, Davis, and Kyle Hamilton all fall into our laps for the taking and we traded all the way down for terrible value to select a non-impact player who was running 4th on the depth chart before his catastrophic injury. Getting little to no return from this draft class has hurt this team down the stretch. People can stroke Kwesi all they want, but the fact is outside of adding Zadarius in free agency after he spurned the Ravens and trading for Hockenson mid season, he has done NOTHING in the way of adding impact and/or depth to this roster. Hicks and Phillips have made little impact on a defense that currently ranks 31st in total defense.
Kwesi has a lot to prove this offseason
Value aside since we didn't get market for the trade down I don't agree.
Jameson Williams would have been a fine pick and the Vikings liked him. He doesn't help you early in the season due to his injury which goes against what they were attempting to do this off-season. They would have taken Olave or Wilson if they had made it to their pick. Just didn't happen. Davis didn't have value to them and Tonga has been equally impressive off waivers. Kyle Hamilton didn't fit the defensive systems they wanted to play. You could argue with a scheme change if that answer changes. But you only know what you know.
Cine was a fine pick and still believe he'll play a big role moving forward. He didn't play early on but as a prospect, I personally was a big fan. The goal was to build a fast and physical backbone which then played into the Asamoah pick, who will be a starter next year. Akayleb Evans will at worst be a 4 year depth CB and Ingram is serviceable with some level of upside. Later on they picked up Otomewo, Chandler, and Nailor who are depth.
Not saying Kwesi won the draft, but it was far from a burning fire.
Read another article about a month ago calling Jordan Davis an "afterthought." So many of the guys promoted by VikingNation aren't really setting the world on fire.
Every year this happens.....but during the actual Draft in real time, the amount of meltdowns by knee jerk fans is off the charts. That's a ride I get off a long time ago, the bipolar aspect of fans and the Draft. Its ridiculous, really.
He started out the year very well, then went on IR for a stint with an ankle injury. He's also on a stacked Eagles Defense so he's just another guy on that team getting occasional reps from spelling Cox and Hargrave.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still go back to the fact that we had Williams, Davis, and Kyle Hamilton all fall into our laps for the taking and we traded all the way down for terrible value to select a non-impact player who was running 4th on the depth chart before his catastrophic injury. Getting little to no return from this draft class has hurt this team down the stretch. People can stroke Kwesi all they want, but the fact is outside of adding Zadarius in free agency after he spurned the Ravens and trading for Hockenson mid season, he has done NOTHING in the way of adding impact and/or depth to this roster. Hicks and Phillips have made little impact on a defense that currently ranks 31st in total defense.
Kwesi has a lot to prove this offseason
Value aside since we didn't get market for the trade down I don't agree.
Jameson Williams would have been a fine pick and the Vikings liked him. He doesn't help you early in the season due to his injury which goes against what they were attempting to do this off-season. They would have taken Olave or Wilson if they had made it to their pick. Just didn't happen. Davis didn't have value to them and Tonga has been equally impressive off waivers. Kyle Hamilton didn't fit the defensive systems they wanted to play. You could argue with a scheme change if that answer changes. But you only know what you know.
Cine was a fine pick and still believe he'll play a big role moving forward. He didn't play early on but as a prospect, I personally was a big fan. The goal was to build a fast and physical backbone which then played into the Asamoah pick, who will be a starter next year. Akayleb Evans will at worst be a 4 year depth CB and Ingram is serviceable with some level of upside. Later on they picked up Otomewo, Chandler, and Nailor who are depth.
Not saying Kwesi won the draft, but it was far from a burning fire.
There was an article the other day about how the OC in Detroit hoped that Williams would pick things up faster than he has. He's been healthy for 5 games and he has one catch. Yeah, that one.
Now, this doesn't mean anything. Like I said before the draft, it's going to be some time before he starts making an impact. Even after he's 100% healthy, there's a period of confidence building.
What I don't understand is why so many thought he was a can't miss prospect. The speed is REAL, but there was some downside there that not many wanted to acknowledge.
Read another article about a month ago calling Jordan Davis an "afterthought." So many of the guys promoted by VikingNation aren't really setting the world on fire.
You know who's been amazing? That kid with the short arms.
Agree on Williams. When it comes to McDuffie, nothing has really changed since draft day. He was a great target for the Vikings if they could have traded down a few slots, not all the way back to pick #32. Considering his ability to play the slot and the results they've gotten from Chandon Sullivan it would have been a valuable choice. Maybe we should apply for a joint GM position? In one of my later mocks I had taken McDuffie in a slight trade down, then picked up a 3rd to add Kirby Joseph who is going to end up being a long-term starter for Detroit.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
As for Thielen, is he declining? Yes. He still is capable of getting open but isn't holding his separation. Since he is oftentimes the 3rd or 4th read in the offense by the time Kirk progresses to him he is covered up. Kind of a tough situations based on how the offense is so heavily built around Jefferson.
Long-term AT still can play in the NFL. Just will be a tough discussion that will need to be revisited in a few weeks since the $20M cap number in 2023. They can move money around on his deal to kick the can again, but do you ultimately want to do that on a 33 year old player? Since I am always around more in the off-season to discuss as of today I think they have about 3 options:
1. Kick the can and restructure his contract again. Assuming we don't mess around with void years right now they could get his cap number down to $12.8M. But the downside is it only balloons his 2024 cap number to $25M and would have dead money of $14M. Post June 1 dead money would be $8.3M in 2024 and then another $5.7M in 2025.
2. They could cut him outright this off-season and eat dead money of $13.5M. That saves $6.4M on the 2023 cap.
3. They could cut him with a post June-1 designation this off-season and take dead money of $6.5M in 2023 and $7M in 2024. That saves $13.5M come June.
At this point #2/#3 just seem like better options considering you just walk yourself into the same exact question next off-season with arguably a worse outcome cap wise.
That 3rd option is looking like the best option. I'm guessing they will try to move him on draft day, and if they don't find any takers (which they won't) he will be cut in June. That is a good chunk of cap savings for next season
Based on how the cap works they would actually need to cut him in early March but can choose a post-June 1 designation. Each team gets two of them per season. Thielen would be allowed to hit FA and his cap hit would remain on the books until June 1, which is manageable. But come June 1 you get the full relief as if you'd released him at that point. Reason they need to do it earlier is due to his vesting base salary guarantees.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still go back to the fact that we had Williams, Davis, and Kyle Hamilton all fall into our laps for the taking and we traded all the way down for terrible value to select a non-impact player who was running 4th on the depth chart before his catastrophic injury. Getting little to no return from this draft class has hurt this team down the stretch. People can stroke Kwesi all they want, but the fact is outside of adding Zadarius in free agency after he spurned the Ravens and trading for Hockenson mid season, he has done NOTHING in the way of adding impact and/or depth to this roster. Hicks and Phillips have made little impact on a defense that currently ranks 31st in total defense.
Kwesi has a lot to prove this offseason
Value aside since we didn't get market for the trade down I don't agree.
Jameson Williams would have been a fine pick and the Vikings liked him. He doesn't help you early in the season due to his injury which goes against what they were attempting to do this off-season. They would have taken Olave or Wilson if they had made it to their pick. Just didn't happen. Davis didn't have value to them and Tonga has been equally impressive off waivers. Kyle Hamilton didn't fit the defensive systems they wanted to play. You could argue with a scheme change if that answer changes. But you only know what you know.
Cine was a fine pick and still believe he'll play a big role moving forward. He didn't play early on but as a prospect, I personally was a big fan. The goal was to build a fast and physical backbone which then played into the Asamoah pick, who will be a starter next year. Akayleb Evans will at worst be a 4 year depth CB and Ingram is serviceable with some level of upside. Later on they picked up Otomewo, Chandler, and Nailor who are depth.
Not saying Kwesi won the draft, but it was far from a burning fire.
There was an article the other day about how the OC in Detroit hoped that Williams would pick things up faster than he has. He's been healthy for 5 games and he has one catch. Yeah, that one.
Now, this doesn't mean anything. Like I said before the draft, it's going to be some time before he starts making an impact. Even after he's 100% healthy, there's a period of confidence building.
What I don't understand is why so many thought he was a can't miss prospect. The speed is REAL, but there was some downside there that not many wanted to acknowledge.
Read another article about a month ago calling Jordan Davis an "afterthought." So many of the guys promoted by VikingNation aren't really setting the world on fire.
You know who's been amazing? That kid with the short arms.
Agree on Williams. When it comes to McDuffie, nothing has really changed since draft day. He was a great target for the Vikings if they could have traded down a few slots, not all the way back to pick #32. Considering his ability to play the slot and the results they've gotten from Chandon Sullivan it would have been a valuable choice. Maybe we should apply for a joint GM position? In one of my later mocks I had taken McDuffie in a slight trade down, then picked up a 3rd to add Kirby Joseph who is going to end up being a long-term starter for Detroit.
Sign me up too lol. In my mock I had us trading down in the first round and taking Tariq Woolen with our additional second round pick we acquired in the trade down. I liked him better than any corner not named Sauce or Stingley in this draft and he is on his way to the Pro Bowl as a rookie.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still go back to the fact that we had Williams, Davis, and Kyle Hamilton all fall into our laps for the taking and we traded all the way down for terrible value to select a non-impact player who was running 4th on the depth chart before his catastrophic injury. Getting little to no return from this draft class has hurt this team down the stretch. People can stroke Kwesi all they want, but the fact is outside of adding Zadarius in free agency after he spurned the Ravens and trading for Hockenson mid season, he has done NOTHING in the way of adding impact and/or depth to this roster. Hicks and Phillips have made little impact on a defense that currently ranks 31st in total defense.
Kwesi has a lot to prove this offseason
Value aside since we didn't get market for the trade down I don't agree.
Jameson Williams would have been a fine pick and the Vikings liked him. He doesn't help you early in the season due to his injury which goes against what they were attempting to do this off-season. They would have taken Olave or Wilson if they had made it to their pick. Just didn't happen. Davis didn't have value to them and Tonga has been equally impressive off waivers. Kyle Hamilton didn't fit the defensive systems they wanted to play. You could argue with a scheme change if that answer changes. But you only know what you know.
Cine was a fine pick and still believe he'll play a big role moving forward. He didn't play early on but as a prospect, I personally was a big fan. The goal was to build a fast and physical backbone which then played into the Asamoah pick, who will be a starter next year. Akayleb Evans will at worst be a 4 year depth CB and Ingram is serviceable with some level of upside. Later on they picked up Otomewo, Chandler, and Nailor who are depth.
Not saying Kwesi won the draft, but it was far from a burning fire.
There was an article the other day about how the OC in Detroit hoped that Williams would pick things up faster than he has. He's been healthy for 5 games and he has one catch. Yeah, that one.
Now, this doesn't mean anything. Like I said before the draft, it's going to be some time before he starts making an impact. Even after he's 100% healthy, there's a period of confidence building.
What I don't understand is why so many thought he was a can't miss prospect. The speed is REAL, but there was some downside there that not many wanted to acknowledge.
Read another article about a month ago calling Jordan Davis an "afterthought." So many of the guys promoted by VikingNation aren't really setting the world on fire.
You know who's been amazing? That kid with the short arms.
Agree on Williams. When it comes to McDuffie, nothing has really changed since draft day. He was a great target for the Vikings if they could have traded down a few slots, not all the way back to pick #32. Considering his ability to play the slot and the results they've gotten from Chandon Sullivan it would have been a valuable choice. Maybe we should apply for a joint GM position? In one of my later mocks I had taken McDuffie in a slight trade down, then picked up a 3rd to add Kirby Joseph who is going to end up being a long-term starter for Detroit.
A McDuffie/Joseph combo would've been great. Infinitely better than what we got from Cine and Booth (so far).
The real sleeper from this draft was Tariq Woolen. Seattle got him in the 5th round and he's been terrific. I wasn't especially high on him, but I know this board had some discussion about him.
I know free agency will have a lot to say about what direction we go in, but curious what you think our biggest need is.
Real sleeper might be Purdy...
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still go back to the fact that we had Williams, Davis, and Kyle Hamilton all fall into our laps for the taking and we traded all the way down for terrible value to select a non-impact player who was running 4th on the depth chart before his catastrophic injury. Getting little to no return from this draft class has hurt this team down the stretch. People can stroke Kwesi all they want, but the fact is outside of adding Zadarius in free agency after he spurned the Ravens and trading for Hockenson mid season, he has done NOTHING in the way of adding impact and/or depth to this roster. Hicks and Phillips have made little impact on a defense that currently ranks 31st in total defense.
Kwesi has a lot to prove this offseason
Value aside since we didn't get market for the trade down I don't agree.
Jameson Williams would have been a fine pick and the Vikings liked him. He doesn't help you early in the season due to his injury which goes against what they were attempting to do this off-season. They would have taken Olave or Wilson if they had made it to their pick. Just didn't happen. Davis didn't have value to them and Tonga has been equally impressive off waivers. Kyle Hamilton didn't fit the defensive systems they wanted to play. You could argue with a scheme change if that answer changes. But you only know what you know.
Cine was a fine pick and still believe he'll play a big role moving forward. He didn't play early on but as a prospect, I personally was a big fan. The goal was to build a fast and physical backbone which then played into the Asamoah pick, who will be a starter next year. Akayleb Evans will at worst be a 4 year depth CB and Ingram is serviceable with some level of upside. Later on they picked up Otomewo, Chandler, and Nailor who are depth.
Not saying Kwesi won the draft, but it was far from a burning fire.
There was an article the other day about how the OC in Detroit hoped that Williams would pick things up faster than he has. He's been healthy for 5 games and he has one catch. Yeah, that one.
Now, this doesn't mean anything. Like I said before the draft, it's going to be some time before he starts making an impact. Even after he's 100% healthy, there's a period of confidence building.
What I don't understand is why so many thought he was a can't miss prospect. The speed is REAL, but there was some downside there that not many wanted to acknowledge.
Read another article about a month ago calling Jordan Davis an "afterthought." So many of the guys promoted by VikingNation aren't really setting the world on fire.
You know who's been amazing? That kid with the short arms.
Agree on Williams. When it comes to McDuffie, nothing has really changed since draft day. He was a great target for the Vikings if they could have traded down a few slots, not all the way back to pick #32. Considering his ability to play the slot and the results they've gotten from Chandon Sullivan it would have been a valuable choice. Maybe we should apply for a joint GM position? In one of my later mocks I had taken McDuffie in a slight trade down, then picked up a 3rd to add Kirby Joseph who is going to end up being a long-term starter for Detroit.
A McDuffie/Joseph combo would've been great. Infinitely better than what we got from Cine and Booth (so far).
The real sleeper from this draft was Tariq Woolen. Seattle got him in the 5th round and he's been terrific. I wasn't especially high on him, but I know this board had some discussion about him.
I know free agency will have a lot to say about what direction we go in, but curious what you think our biggest need is.
The early off-season will probably change my answer. Depth wise they are a fairly complete team, but they are lacking the high upside plays needed from their high price starters.
But if I had to list my top 3 needs as of today it would be: Slot CB, Some added layer to the pass rush (could be a hybrid ILB, otherwise a better penetrating base end), then WR2 in that order.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still go back to the fact that we had Williams, Davis, and Kyle Hamilton all fall into our laps for the taking and we traded all the way down for terrible value to select a non-impact player who was running 4th on the depth chart before his catastrophic injury. Getting little to no return from this draft class has hurt this team down the stretch. People can stroke Kwesi all they want, but the fact is outside of adding Zadarius in free agency after he spurned the Ravens and trading for Hockenson mid season, he has done NOTHING in the way of adding impact and/or depth to this roster. Hicks and Phillips have made little impact on a defense that currently ranks 31st in total defense.
Kwesi has a lot to prove this offseason
Value aside since we didn't get market for the trade down I don't agree.
Jameson Williams would have been a fine pick and the Vikings liked him. He doesn't help you early in the season due to his injury which goes against what they were attempting to do this off-season. They would have taken Olave or Wilson if they had made it to their pick. Just didn't happen. Davis didn't have value to them and Tonga has been equally impressive off waivers. Kyle Hamilton didn't fit the defensive systems they wanted to play. You could argue with a scheme change if that answer changes. But you only know what you know.
Cine was a fine pick and still believe he'll play a big role moving forward. He didn't play early on but as a prospect, I personally was a big fan. The goal was to build a fast and physical backbone which then played into the Asamoah pick, who will be a starter next year. Akayleb Evans will at worst be a 4 year depth CB and Ingram is serviceable with some level of upside. Later on they picked up Otomewo, Chandler, and Nailor who are depth.
Not saying Kwesi won the draft, but it was far from a burning fire.
There was an article the other day about how the OC in Detroit hoped that Williams would pick things up faster than he has. He's been healthy for 5 games and he has one catch. Yeah, that one.
Now, this doesn't mean anything. Like I said before the draft, it's going to be some time before he starts making an impact. Even after he's 100% healthy, there's a period of confidence building.
What I don't understand is why so many thought he was a can't miss prospect. The speed is REAL, but there was some downside there that not many wanted to acknowledge.
Read another article about a month ago calling Jordan Davis an "afterthought." So many of the guys promoted by VikingNation aren't really setting the world on fire.
You know who's been amazing? That kid with the short arms.
Agree on Williams. When it comes to McDuffie, nothing has really changed since draft day. He was a great target for the Vikings if they could have traded down a few slots, not all the way back to pick #32. Considering his ability to play the slot and the results they've gotten from Chandon Sullivan it would have been a valuable choice. Maybe we should apply for a joint GM position? In one of my later mocks I had taken McDuffie in a slight trade down, then picked up a 3rd to add Kirby Joseph who is going to end up being a long-term starter for Detroit.
A McDuffie/Joseph combo would've been great. Infinitely better than what we got from Cine and Booth (so far).
The real sleeper from this draft was Tariq Woolen. Seattle got him in the 5th round and he's been terrific. I wasn't especially high on him, but I know this board had some discussion about him.
I know free agency will have a lot to say about what direction we go in, but curious what you think our biggest need is.
The early off-season will probably change my answer. Depth wise they are a fairly complete team, but they are lacking the high upside plays needed from their high price starters.
But if I had to list my top 3 needs as of today it would be: Slot CB, Some added layer to the pass rush (could be a hybrid ILB, otherwise a better penetrating base end), then WR2 in that order.
Maybe add ILB as well. EK & Hicks are on their last legs and I don't trust Dye yet in a full-time role if something were to happen to those two.
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