Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Over his career Patterson was a 4X 1st team All Pro, 3X 2nd team All Pro, 4X Pro Bowler, and member of the All Decade team. The Vikings, with just a little bit more imagination, could've used him better.
Seems to me they tried, he just wasnt bright enough or focused enough at the time to pick up what they were trying to teach him. He was more focused on his off field endeavors or other.
Remember he was supposed to go work with a receiver coach ( Irvin? ) one off season and instead went to some muscle camp?
KR isn't a big enough part of the game imo to get all excited over all pro or pro bowl honors, and without his KR abilities nobody would know his name, and likely wouldn't be in the league any more. If Rick had spent all that capital on a TE that never panned out at his position, but somehow turned into an all pro long snapper, would he be considered a bust? IMO yes.
No, they didn't. They kept trying to turn him into a downfield receiver. They should've continued to use him as a weapon out of the backfield. His two best seasons by far were his rookie season and last year, where most of his production came out of the backfield. About 1800 yards and 18 TDs in those two seasons combined, not counting kick off returns. These were really the only two seasons where he was used properly.
Used almost like a Deebo before there was a Deebo...
All those OC's didnt do Zimmer or the team any favors. Too bad they couldn't have kept shurmur.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Over his career Patterson was a 4X 1st team All Pro, 3X 2nd team All Pro, 4X Pro Bowler, and member of the All Decade team. The Vikings, with just a little bit more imagination, could've used him better.
Seems to me they tried, he just wasnt bright enough or focused enough at the time to pick up what they were trying to teach him. He was more focused on his off field endeavors or other.
Remember he was supposed to go work with a receiver coach ( Irvin? ) one off season and instead went to some muscle camp?
KR isn't a big enough part of the game imo to get all excited over all pro or pro bowl honors, and without his KR abilities nobody would know his name, and likely wouldn't be in the league any more. If Rick had spent all that capital on a TE that never panned out at his position, but somehow turned into an all pro long snapper, would he be considered a bust? IMO yes.
No, they didn't. They kept trying to turn him into a downfield receiver. They should've continued to use him as a weapon out of the backfield. His two best seasons by far were his rookie season and last year, where most of his production came out of the backfield. About 1800 yards and 18 TDs in those two seasons combined, not counting kick off returns. These were really the only two seasons where he was used properly.
Jimmy makes good points but I still would not label him a bust. He was great his rookie year and then for whatever reason landed in the doghouse and couldn’t get out. Other coaches and other teams tried and failed to help him reach his full potential also, so I don’t fully blame Zimmer either.
I always liked CPatt though and was happy to see him do so well in Atlanta last year. Definitely not a bust, just kind of an odd case.
Back to Rick— I agree with I think Greed who said OL and QB were his downfall. Think how much different the past 10 years look for this team with a top tier QB OR a rock solid OL. Easier said than done but in addition to the behind the scenes stuff, QB and OL are what cooked his goose.
Vikings haven't used a #1 pick on a DL since 2013 - Floyd.
Before that? You gotta go back to Erasmus James in 2005.
We talk incessantly about the OL being undermanned and ignored - might the more accurate discussion be prioritization of the guys in the trenches in general?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
CPatt was a total ass miss, he traded multiple picks to move up into the first for a kick returner, JJ was a no brainer, he had to go WR and JJ was what was left when it got to the Vikes. Kind of the same with Darrisaw, no way he knew that he would still get him when he dropped down last year. Gladney was a wiff as well, despite all the warning signs he took him in the first, and honestly Gladney hadnt really shown much in his first season anyway.
Rick has enough on his resume to merit the firing, I am not banging the drum for KAM, I am simply saying rick got a decade ( more if you think he was pulling the trigger those first few years, I dont ) but I would say KAM gets 3 years to see how his moves pan out, lets not forget the salary cap, and abysmal roster disaster he inherited. lots of issues for him to try and address and I am going to wait until I see at least another year or two of his plan before I call for his head.
Patterson was a two time Pro Bowler and Associated Press all-pro as a kick returner for the Vikings. He never panned out as a wide receiver but you can't say he was a bust either.
I don't have a problem with the cap issue Kwesi inherited. The roster had been built to a point where we were all in the last couple years. Covid screwed us (along with everyone else) and I just have no explanation to what happened last year. With that said though, we had a window, we went for it...and I don't have a problem with it even if it means paying the piper down the road
You dont spend the draft capital Rick used to move back into the first for a kick returner, he thought he could be more and he was wrong, despite being heralded as a KR, CP was a miss as a draft pick.
A total bust doesn't play in the NFL for as long as he has. He was a bad pick because he wasn't mentally ready for the NFL and it took him quite a while to find a way to fit.
As to JJ and Darrisaw, if you can't give him credit for drafting those two, then you can't fault him for drafting Kalil, Ponder and others. They were who was on the board at that time. Can't have it both ways. Only way that works is for the first pick.
Other teams obviously had reservations about JJ, not sure what, maybe it was his unorthodox running style. But you have to give Rick credit for pulling that trigger when the rest of the teams didn't pull it.
He was a. Bust based on what they paid for him
I never mentioned Ponder or Kalil, so no, I dont give him credit for getting lucky.
Can't have it both ways. Do we want the risk taker balls to the walls GM or the play it safe scared of ZIM and for your job GM?
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
CPatt was a total ass miss, he traded multiple picks to move up into the first for a kick returner, JJ was a no brainer, he had to go WR and JJ was what was left when it got to the Vikes. Kind of the same with Darrisaw, no way he knew that he would still get him when he dropped down last year. Gladney was a wiff as well, despite all the warning signs he took him in the first, and honestly Gladney hadnt really shown much in his first season anyway.
Rick has enough on his resume to merit the firing, I am not banging the drum for KAM, I am simply saying rick got a decade ( more if you think he was pulling the trigger those first few years, I dont ) but I would say KAM gets 3 years to see how his moves pan out, lets not forget the salary cap, and abysmal roster disaster he inherited. lots of issues for him to try and address and I am going to wait until I see at least another year or two of his plan before I call for his head.
Patterson was a two time Pro Bowler and Associated Press all-pro as a kick returner for the Vikings. He never panned out as a wide receiver but you can't say he was a bust either.
I don't have a problem with the cap issue Kwesi inherited. The roster had been built to a point where we were all in the last couple years. Covid screwed us (along with everyone else) and I just have no explanation to what happened last year. With that said though, we had a window, we went for it...and I don't have a problem with it even if it means paying the piper down the road
You dont spend the draft capital Rick used to move back into the first for a kick returner, he thought he could be more and he was wrong, despite being heralded as a KR, CP was a miss as a draft pick.
A total bust doesn't play in the NFL for as long as he has. He was a bad pick because he wasn't mentally ready for the NFL and it took him quite a while to find a way to fit.
As to JJ and Darrisaw, if you can't give him credit for drafting those two, then you can't fault him for drafting Kalil, Ponder and others. They were who was on the board at that time. Can't have it both ways. Only way that works is for the first pick.
Other teams obviously had reservations about JJ, not sure what, maybe it was his unorthodox running style. But you have to give Rick credit for pulling that trigger when the rest of the teams didn't pull it.
He was a. Bust based on what they paid for him
I never mentioned Ponder or Kalil, so no, I dont give him credit for getting lucky.
Can't have it both ways. Do we want the risk taker balls to the walls GM or the play it safe scared of ZIM and for your job GM?
I would say there are more than 2 choices. It doesn't have to be one way or the other.
I dont see the issue some have with me considering cpatt a bust of sorts, its just my opinion, you can think otherwise if you choose. Same with thinking it was time for spielman to go, he had his decade to try and couldn't get it done. Time to move on and try a new approach. KAM and KOC have a ton of questions to be answered IMO, KAM is off to a shake start for me, but its a process and they deserve the time to prove the merit of their plans.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Over his career Patterson was a 4X 1st team All Pro, 3X 2nd team All Pro, 4X Pro Bowler, and member of the All Decade team. The Vikings, with just a little bit more imagination, could've used him better.
Seems to me they tried, he just wasnt bright enough or focused enough at the time to pick up what they were trying to teach him. He was more focused on his off field endeavors or other.
Remember he was supposed to go work with a receiver coach ( Irvin? ) one off season and instead went to some muscle camp?
KR isn't a big enough part of the game imo to get all excited over all pro or pro bowl honors, and without his KR abilities nobody would know his name, and likely wouldn't be in the league any more. If Rick had spent all that capital on a TE that never panned out at his position, but somehow turned into an all pro long snapper, would he be considered a bust? IMO yes.
No, they didn't. They kept trying to turn him into a downfield receiver. They should've continued to use him as a weapon out of the backfield. His two best seasons by far were his rookie season and last year, where most of his production came out of the backfield. About 1800 yards and 18 TDs in those two seasons combined, not counting kick off returns. These were really the only two seasons where he was used properly.
Jimmy makes good points but I still would not label him a bust. He was great his rookie year and then for whatever reason landed in the doghouse and couldn’t get out. Other coaches and other teams tried and failed to help him reach his full potential also, so I don’t fully blame Zimmer either.
I always liked CPatt though and was happy to see him do so well in Atlanta last year. Definitely not a bust, just kind of an odd case.
Back to Rick— I agree with I think Greed who said OL and QB were his downfall. Think how much different the past 10 years look for this team with a top tier QB OR a rock solid OL. Easier said than done but in addition to the behind the scenes stuff, QB and OL are what cooked his goose.
No, obviously not a bust. A bust is a player that is never able to start or contribute much and is out of the NFL in 5 or 6 years. The number of busts taken in the 1st round since Patterson was drafted is probably in the hundreds. He's not one.
Patterson has played for a decade and been 1st team All Pro 4 times. A disappointment? Sure. A miss? Meh. But certainly not a bust.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Over his career Patterson was a 4X 1st team All Pro, 3X 2nd team All Pro, 4X Pro Bowler, and member of the All Decade team. The Vikings, with just a little bit more imagination, could've used him better.
Seems to me they tried, he just wasnt bright enough or focused enough at the time to pick up what they were trying to teach him. He was more focused on his off field endeavors or other.
Remember he was supposed to go work with a receiver coach ( Irvin? ) one off season and instead went to some muscle camp?
KR isn't a big enough part of the game imo to get all excited over all pro or pro bowl honors, and without his KR abilities nobody would know his name, and likely wouldn't be in the league any more. If Rick had spent all that capital on a TE that never panned out at his position, but somehow turned into an all pro long snapper, would he be considered a bust? IMO yes.
No, they didn't. They kept trying to turn him into a downfield receiver. They should've continued to use him as a weapon out of the backfield. His two best seasons by far were his rookie season and last year, where most of his production came out of the backfield. About 1800 yards and 18 TDs in those two seasons combined, not counting kick off returns. These were really the only two seasons where he was used properly.
Jimmy makes good points but I still would not label him a bust. He was great his rookie year and then for whatever reason landed in the doghouse and couldn’t get out. Other coaches and other teams tried and failed to help him reach his full potential also, so I don’t fully blame Zimmer either.
I always liked CPatt though and was happy to see him do so well in Atlanta last year. Definitely not a bust, just kind of an odd case.
Back to Rick— I agree with I think Greed who said OL and QB were his downfall. Think how much different the past 10 years look for this team with a top tier QB OR a rock solid OL. Easier said than done but in addition to the behind the scenes stuff, QB and OL are what cooked his goose.
No, obviously not a bust. A bust is a player that is never able to start or contribute much and is out of the NFL in 5 or 6 years. The number of busts taken in the 1st round since Patterson was drafted is probably in the hundreds. He's not one.
Patterson has played for a decade and been 1st team All Pro 4 times. A disappointment? Sure. A miss? Meh. But certainly not a bust.
BY YOUR DEFINITION>>>> for fucks sake, is it allowable to have a different definition of the word "BUST"? or at least different criteria to meet? he never came close to what you would expect from a first round WR. just because he has hung in the league for a while as a special teamer and eventual gimmick guy doesnt mean he wasnt a bust of a pick for the Vikings IMO.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Over his career Patterson was a 4X 1st team All Pro, 3X 2nd team All Pro, 4X Pro Bowler, and member of the All Decade team. The Vikings, with just a little bit more imagination, could've used him better.
Seems to me they tried, he just wasnt bright enough or focused enough at the time to pick up what they were trying to teach him. He was more focused on his off field endeavors or other.
Remember he was supposed to go work with a receiver coach ( Irvin? ) one off season and instead went to some muscle camp?
KR isn't a big enough part of the game imo to get all excited over all pro or pro bowl honors, and without his KR abilities nobody would know his name, and likely wouldn't be in the league any more. If Rick had spent all that capital on a TE that never panned out at his position, but somehow turned into an all pro long snapper, would he be considered a bust? IMO yes.
No, they didn't. They kept trying to turn him into a downfield receiver. They should've continued to use him as a weapon out of the backfield. His two best seasons by far were his rookie season and last year, where most of his production came out of the backfield. About 1800 yards and 18 TDs in those two seasons combined, not counting kick off returns. These were really the only two seasons where he was used properly.
Jimmy makes good points but I still would not label him a bust. He was great his rookie year and then for whatever reason landed in the doghouse and couldn’t get out. Other coaches and other teams tried and failed to help him reach his full potential also, so I don’t fully blame Zimmer either.
I always liked CPatt though and was happy to see him do so well in Atlanta last year. Definitely not a bust, just kind of an odd case.
Back to Rick— I agree with I think Greed who said OL and QB were his downfall. Think how much different the past 10 years look for this team with a top tier QB OR a rock solid OL. Easier said than done but in addition to the behind the scenes stuff, QB and OL are what cooked his goose.
No, obviously not a bust. A bust is a player that is never able to start or contribute much and is out of the NFL in 5 or 6 years. The number of busts taken in the 1st round since Patterson was drafted is probably in the hundreds. He's not one.
Patterson has played for a decade and been 1st team All Pro 4 times. A disappointment? Sure. A miss? Meh. But certainly not a bust.
BY YOUR DEFINITION>>>> for fucks sake, is it allowable to have a different definition of the word "BUST"? or at least different criteria to meet? he never came close to what you would expect from a first round WR. just because he has hung in the league for a while as a special teamer and eventual gimmick guy doesnt mean he wasnt a bust of a pick for the Vikings IMO.
Dude, you are a riot. I wasn't even responding to you. You wanna call him a bust, go for it! I don't give a shit. But I see that you already have in this thread....about 4 times. Just weird how you keep after it, and then get HOT about it when someone disagrees with you. LOL. But you do you, Mr. Jimmy.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Over his career Patterson was a 4X 1st team All Pro, 3X 2nd team All Pro, 4X Pro Bowler, and member of the All Decade team. The Vikings, with just a little bit more imagination, could've used him better.
Seems to me they tried, he just wasnt bright enough or focused enough at the time to pick up what they were trying to teach him. He was more focused on his off field endeavors or other.
Remember he was supposed to go work with a receiver coach ( Irvin? ) one off season and instead went to some muscle camp?
KR isn't a big enough part of the game imo to get all excited over all pro or pro bowl honors, and without his KR abilities nobody would know his name, and likely wouldn't be in the league any more. If Rick had spent all that capital on a TE that never panned out at his position, but somehow turned into an all pro long snapper, would he be considered a bust? IMO yes.
No, they didn't. They kept trying to turn him into a downfield receiver. They should've continued to use him as a weapon out of the backfield. His two best seasons by far were his rookie season and last year, where most of his production came out of the backfield. About 1800 yards and 18 TDs in those two seasons combined, not counting kick off returns. These were really the only two seasons where he was used properly.
Jimmy makes good points but I still would not label him a bust. He was great his rookie year and then for whatever reason landed in the doghouse and couldn’t get out. Other coaches and other teams tried and failed to help him reach his full potential also, so I don’t fully blame Zimmer either.
I always liked CPatt though and was happy to see him do so well in Atlanta last year. Definitely not a bust, just kind of an odd case.
Back to Rick— I agree with I think Greed who said OL and QB were his downfall. Think how much different the past 10 years look for this team with a top tier QB OR a rock solid OL. Easier said than done but in addition to the behind the scenes stuff, QB and OL are what cooked his goose.
No, obviously not a bust. A bust is a player that is never able to start or contribute much and is out of the NFL in 5 or 6 years. The number of busts taken in the 1st round since Patterson was drafted is probably in the hundreds. He's not one.
Patterson has played for a decade and been 1st team All Pro 4 times. A disappointment? Sure. A miss? Meh. But certainly not a bust.
BY YOUR DEFINITION>>>> for fucks sake, is it allowable to have a different definition of the word "BUST"? or at least different criteria to meet? he never came close to what you would expect from a first round WR. just because he has hung in the league for a while as a special teamer and eventual gimmick guy doesnt mean he wasnt a bust of a pick for the Vikings IMO.
Dude, you are a riot. I wasn't even responding to you. You wanna call him a bust, go for it! I don't give a shit. But I see that you already have in this thread....about 4 times. Just weird how you keep after it, and then get HOT about it when someone disagrees with you. LOL. But you do you, Mr. Jimmy.
I appologize, the system showed me a notification showing that you had quoted me, I clicked it, read your response, and I didnt see that if was you responding to Pattersaur that had previously quoted me. System failure and I wasnt paying attention. Again I am sorry.
Remember this crazy game? Patterson's bubble screen touchdown on an icey field was one of the best plays I'd ever seen. He hit full speed while everyone else was playing in slow motion.
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