Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
CPatt was a total ass miss, he traded multiple picks to move up into the first for a kick returner, JJ was a no brainer, he had to go WR and JJ was what was left when it got to the Vikes. Kind of the same with Darrisaw, no way he knew that he would still get him when he dropped down last year. Gladney was a wiff as well, despite all the warning signs he took him in the first, and honestly Gladney hadnt really shown much in his first season anyway.
Rick has enough on his resume to merit the firing, I am not banging the drum for KAM, I am simply saying rick got a decade ( more if you think he was pulling the trigger those first few years, I dont ) but I would say KAM gets 3 years to see how his moves pan out, lets not forget the salary cap, and abysmal roster disaster he inherited. lots of issues for him to try and address and I am going to wait until I see at least another year or two of his plan before I call for his head.
Patterson was a two time Pro Bowler and Associated Press all-pro as a kick returner for the Vikings. He never panned out as a wide receiver but you can't say he was a bust either.
I don't have a problem with the cap issue Kwesi inherited. The roster had been built to a point where we were all in the last couple years. Covid screwed us (along with everyone else) and I just have no explanation to what happened last year. With that said though, we had a window, we went for it...and I don't have a problem with it even if it means paying the piper down the road
You dont spend the draft capital Rick used to move back into the first for a kick returner, he thought he could be more and he was wrong, despite being heralded as a KR, CP was a miss as a draft pick.
A total bust doesn't play in the NFL for as long as he has. He was a bad pick because he wasn't mentally ready for the NFL and it took him quite a while to find a way to fit.
As to JJ and Darrisaw, if you can't give him credit for drafting those two, then you can't fault him for drafting Kalil, Ponder and others. They were who was on the board at that time. Can't have it both ways. Only way that works is for the first pick.
Other teams obviously had reservations about JJ, not sure what, maybe it was his unorthodox running style. But you have to give Rick credit for pulling that trigger when the rest of the teams didn't pull it.
He was a. Bust based on what they paid for him
I never mentioned Ponder or Kalil, so no, I dont give him credit for getting lucky.
What exactly did they pay for him? I remember they moved up into the first round, but can't remember the compensation
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
CPatt was a total ass miss, he traded multiple picks to move up into the first for a kick returner, JJ was a no brainer, he had to go WR and JJ was what was left when it got to the Vikes. Kind of the same with Darrisaw, no way he knew that he would still get him when he dropped down last year. Gladney was a wiff as well, despite all the warning signs he took him in the first, and honestly Gladney hadnt really shown much in his first season anyway.
Rick has enough on his resume to merit the firing, I am not banging the drum for KAM, I am simply saying rick got a decade ( more if you think he was pulling the trigger those first few years, I dont ) but I would say KAM gets 3 years to see how his moves pan out, lets not forget the salary cap, and abysmal roster disaster he inherited. lots of issues for him to try and address and I am going to wait until I see at least another year or two of his plan before I call for his head.
Patterson was a two time Pro Bowler and Associated Press all-pro as a kick returner for the Vikings. He never panned out as a wide receiver but you can't say he was a bust either.
I don't have a problem with the cap issue Kwesi inherited. The roster had been built to a point where we were all in the last couple years. Covid screwed us (along with everyone else) and I just have no explanation to what happened last year. With that said though, we had a window, we went for it...and I don't have a problem with it even if it means paying the piper down the road
You dont spend the draft capital Rick used to move back into the first for a kick returner, he thought he could be more and he was wrong, despite being heralded as a KR, CP was a miss as a draft pick.
A total bust doesn't play in the NFL for as long as he has. He was a bad pick because he wasn't mentally ready for the NFL and it took him quite a while to find a way to fit.
As to JJ and Darrisaw, if you can't give him credit for drafting those two, then you can't fault him for drafting Kalil, Ponder and others. They were who was on the board at that time. Can't have it both ways. Only way that works is for the first pick.
Other teams obviously had reservations about JJ, not sure what, maybe it was his unorthodox running style. But you have to give Rick credit for pulling that trigger when the rest of the teams didn't pull it.
He was a. Bust based on what they paid for him
I never mentioned Ponder or Kalil, so no, I dont give him credit for getting lucky.
He is still playing in the NFL and was starting last year. Hard to justify the total bust label.
As to lucky? He had to make the pick that other teams didn't.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
CPatt was a total ass miss, he traded multiple picks to move up into the first for a kick returner, JJ was a no brainer, he had to go WR and JJ was what was left when it got to the Vikes. Kind of the same with Darrisaw, no way he knew that he would still get him when he dropped down last year. Gladney was a wiff as well, despite all the warning signs he took him in the first, and honestly Gladney hadnt really shown much in his first season anyway.
Rick has enough on his resume to merit the firing, I am not banging the drum for KAM, I am simply saying rick got a decade ( more if you think he was pulling the trigger those first few years, I dont ) but I would say KAM gets 3 years to see how his moves pan out, lets not forget the salary cap, and abysmal roster disaster he inherited. lots of issues for him to try and address and I am going to wait until I see at least another year or two of his plan before I call for his head.
Patterson was a two time Pro Bowler and Associated Press all-pro as a kick returner for the Vikings. He never panned out as a wide receiver but you can't say he was a bust either.
I don't have a problem with the cap issue Kwesi inherited. The roster had been built to a point where we were all in the last couple years. Covid screwed us (along with everyone else) and I just have no explanation to what happened last year. With that said though, we had a window, we went for it...and I don't have a problem with it even if it means paying the piper down the road
You dont spend the draft capital Rick used to move back into the first for a kick returner, he thought he could be more and he was wrong, despite being heralded as a KR, CP was a miss as a draft pick.
A total bust doesn't play in the NFL for as long as he has. He was a bad pick because he wasn't mentally ready for the NFL and it took him quite a while to find a way to fit.
As to JJ and Darrisaw, if you can't give him credit for drafting those two, then you can't fault him for drafting Kalil, Ponder and others. They were who was on the board at that time. Can't have it both ways. Only way that works is for the first pick.
Other teams obviously had reservations about JJ, not sure what, maybe it was his unorthodox running style. But you have to give Rick credit for pulling that trigger when the rest of the teams didn't pull it.
He was a. Bust based on what they paid for him
I never mentioned Ponder or Kalil, so no, I dont give him credit for getting lucky.
What exactly did they pay for him? I remember they moved up into the first round, but can't remember the compensation
Patterson was selected in the first round with the 29th overall pick by the Minnesota Vikings in the 2013 NFL Draft in a draft-day trade with the New England Patriots; the Patriots received four draft picks (a second, third, fourth and seventh)
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
CPatt was a total ass miss, he traded multiple picks to move up into the first for a kick returner, JJ was a no brainer, he had to go WR and JJ was what was left when it got to the Vikes. Kind of the same with Darrisaw, no way he knew that he would still get him when he dropped down last year. Gladney was a wiff as well, despite all the warning signs he took him in the first, and honestly Gladney hadnt really shown much in his first season anyway.
Rick has enough on his resume to merit the firing, I am not banging the drum for KAM, I am simply saying rick got a decade ( more if you think he was pulling the trigger those first few years, I dont ) but I would say KAM gets 3 years to see how his moves pan out, lets not forget the salary cap, and abysmal roster disaster he inherited. lots of issues for him to try and address and I am going to wait until I see at least another year or two of his plan before I call for his head.
Patterson was a two time Pro Bowler and Associated Press all-pro as a kick returner for the Vikings. He never panned out as a wide receiver but you can't say he was a bust either.
I don't have a problem with the cap issue Kwesi inherited. The roster had been built to a point where we were all in the last couple years. Covid screwed us (along with everyone else) and I just have no explanation to what happened last year. With that said though, we had a window, we went for it...and I don't have a problem with it even if it means paying the piper down the road
You dont spend the draft capital Rick used to move back into the first for a kick returner, he thought he could be more and he was wrong, despite being heralded as a KR, CP was a miss as a draft pick.
A total bust doesn't play in the NFL for as long as he has. He was a bad pick because he wasn't mentally ready for the NFL and it took him quite a while to find a way to fit.
As to JJ and Darrisaw, if you can't give him credit for drafting those two, then you can't fault him for drafting Kalil, Ponder and others. They were who was on the board at that time. Can't have it both ways. Only way that works is for the first pick.
Other teams obviously had reservations about JJ, not sure what, maybe it was his unorthodox running style. But you have to give Rick credit for pulling that trigger when the rest of the teams didn't pull it.
He was a. Bust based on what they paid for him
I never mentioned Ponder or Kalil, so no, I dont give him credit for getting lucky.
What exactly did they pay for him? I remember they moved up into the first round, but can't remember the compensation
Patterson was selected in the first round with the 29th overall pick by the Minnesota Vikings in the 2013 NFL Draft in a draft-day trade with the New England Patriots; the Patriots received four draft picks (a second, third, fourth and seventh)
We had 3 first round picks that year (Floyd, Rhodes, Patterson), but you still had a problem with the compensation to grab Patterson? I was more then okay with it especially since we still had another 4th round pick and needed a playmaker. They took a swing and got a couple Pro Bowls out of Patterson. I still contend it wasn't a complete bust of a pick.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
CPatt was a total ass miss, he traded multiple picks to move up into the first for a kick returner, JJ was a no brainer, he had to go WR and JJ was what was left when it got to the Vikes. Kind of the same with Darrisaw, no way he knew that he would still get him when he dropped down last year. Gladney was a wiff as well, despite all the warning signs he took him in the first, and honestly Gladney hadnt really shown much in his first season anyway.
Rick has enough on his resume to merit the firing, I am not banging the drum for KAM, I am simply saying rick got a decade ( more if you think he was pulling the trigger those first few years, I dont ) but I would say KAM gets 3 years to see how his moves pan out, lets not forget the salary cap, and abysmal roster disaster he inherited. lots of issues for him to try and address and I am going to wait until I see at least another year or two of his plan before I call for his head.
Patterson was a two time Pro Bowler and Associated Press all-pro as a kick returner for the Vikings. He never panned out as a wide receiver but you can't say he was a bust either.
I don't have a problem with the cap issue Kwesi inherited. The roster had been built to a point where we were all in the last couple years. Covid screwed us (along with everyone else) and I just have no explanation to what happened last year. With that said though, we had a window, we went for it...and I don't have a problem with it even if it means paying the piper down the road
You dont spend the draft capital Rick used to move back into the first for a kick returner, he thought he could be more and he was wrong, despite being heralded as a KR, CP was a miss as a draft pick.
A total bust doesn't play in the NFL for as long as he has. He was a bad pick because he wasn't mentally ready for the NFL and it took him quite a while to find a way to fit.
As to JJ and Darrisaw, if you can't give him credit for drafting those two, then you can't fault him for drafting Kalil, Ponder and others. They were who was on the board at that time. Can't have it both ways. Only way that works is for the first pick.
Other teams obviously had reservations about JJ, not sure what, maybe it was his unorthodox running style. But you have to give Rick credit for pulling that trigger when the rest of the teams didn't pull it.
He was a. Bust based on what they paid for him
I never mentioned Ponder or Kalil, so no, I dont give him credit for getting lucky.
What exactly did they pay for him? I remember they moved up into the first round, but can't remember the compensation
Patterson was selected in the first round with the 29th overall pick by the Minnesota Vikings in the 2013 NFL Draft in a draft-day trade with the New England Patriots; the Patriots received four draft picks (a second, third, fourth and seventh)
We had 3 first round picks that year (Floyd, Rhodes, Patterson), but you still had a problem with the compensation to grab Patterson? I was more then okay with it especially since we still had another 4th round pick and needed a playmaker. They took a swing and got a couple Pro Bowls out of Patterson. I still contend it wasn't a complete bust of a pick.
Pro bowl at KR, you could have gotten the same impact out of a 4th round WR. Long snappers, kickers,, and punters get selected to the pro bowl too, would you say the same if he had spent that draft capital on one of those other special teams positions?
This team needed middle round picks at OL, LB, and other depth positions, hell maybe he could have taken a few flyers on QB instead?
Think of it this way, he spent 3 good picks and after 4 years had nothing to show for it. And if anybody had done their homework they would have known he was a flake and likely to never reach his potential.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
CPatt was a total ass miss, he traded multiple picks to move up into the first for a kick returner, JJ was a no brainer, he had to go WR and JJ was what was left when it got to the Vikes. Kind of the same with Darrisaw, no way he knew that he would still get him when he dropped down last year. Gladney was a wiff as well, despite all the warning signs he took him in the first, and honestly Gladney hadnt really shown much in his first season anyway.
Rick has enough on his resume to merit the firing, I am not banging the drum for KAM, I am simply saying rick got a decade ( more if you think he was pulling the trigger those first few years, I dont ) but I would say KAM gets 3 years to see how his moves pan out, lets not forget the salary cap, and abysmal roster disaster he inherited. lots of issues for him to try and address and I am going to wait until I see at least another year or two of his plan before I call for his head.
Patterson was a two time Pro Bowler and Associated Press all-pro as a kick returner for the Vikings. He never panned out as a wide receiver but you can't say he was a bust either.
I don't have a problem with the cap issue Kwesi inherited. The roster had been built to a point where we were all in the last couple years. Covid screwed us (along with everyone else) and I just have no explanation to what happened last year. With that said though, we had a window, we went for it...and I don't have a problem with it even if it means paying the piper down the road
You dont spend the draft capital Rick used to move back into the first for a kick returner, he thought he could be more and he was wrong, despite being heralded as a KR, CP was a miss as a draft pick.
A total bust doesn't play in the NFL for as long as he has. He was a bad pick because he wasn't mentally ready for the NFL and it took him quite a while to find a way to fit.
As to JJ and Darrisaw, if you can't give him credit for drafting those two, then you can't fault him for drafting Kalil, Ponder and others. They were who was on the board at that time. Can't have it both ways. Only way that works is for the first pick.
Other teams obviously had reservations about JJ, not sure what, maybe it was his unorthodox running style. But you have to give Rick credit for pulling that trigger when the rest of the teams didn't pull it.
He was a. Bust based on what they paid for him
I never mentioned Ponder or Kalil, so no, I dont give him credit for getting lucky.
What exactly did they pay for him? I remember they moved up into the first round, but can't remember the compensation
Patterson was selected in the first round with the 29th overall pick by the Minnesota Vikings in the 2013 NFL Draft in a draft-day trade with the New England Patriots; the Patriots received four draft picks (a second, third, fourth and seventh)
We had 3 first round picks that year (Floyd, Rhodes, Patterson), but you still had a problem with the compensation to grab Patterson? I was more then okay with it especially since we still had another 4th round pick and needed a playmaker. They took a swing and got a couple Pro Bowls out of Patterson. I still contend it wasn't a complete bust of a pick.
Pro bowl at KR, you could have gotten the same impact out of a 4th round WR. Long snappers, kickers,, and punters get selected to the pro bowl too, would you say the same if he had spent that draft capital on one of those other special teams positions?
This team needed middle round picks at OL, LB, and other depth positions, hell maybe he could have taken a few flyers on QB instead?
Think of it this way, he spent 3 good picks and after 4 years had nothing to show for it. And if anybody had done their homework they would have known he was a flake and likely to never reach his potential.
Maybe, but Patterson has been a special kick returner since year 1. Those guys don't grow on trees either, and the Patriots really didn't do jack with the picks we traded to them. None received second contracts in New England. At least we got something with the pick.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
CPatt was a total ass miss, he traded multiple picks to move up into the first for a kick returner, JJ was a no brainer, he had to go WR and JJ was what was left when it got to the Vikes. Kind of the same with Darrisaw, no way he knew that he would still get him when he dropped down last year. Gladney was a wiff as well, despite all the warning signs he took him in the first, and honestly Gladney hadnt really shown much in his first season anyway.
Rick has enough on his resume to merit the firing, I am not banging the drum for KAM, I am simply saying rick got a decade ( more if you think he was pulling the trigger those first few years, I dont ) but I would say KAM gets 3 years to see how his moves pan out, lets not forget the salary cap, and abysmal roster disaster he inherited. lots of issues for him to try and address and I am going to wait until I see at least another year or two of his plan before I call for his head.
Patterson was a two time Pro Bowler and Associated Press all-pro as a kick returner for the Vikings. He never panned out as a wide receiver but you can't say he was a bust either.
I don't have a problem with the cap issue Kwesi inherited. The roster had been built to a point where we were all in the last couple years. Covid screwed us (along with everyone else) and I just have no explanation to what happened last year. With that said though, we had a window, we went for it...and I don't have a problem with it even if it means paying the piper down the road
You dont spend the draft capital Rick used to move back into the first for a kick returner, he thought he could be more and he was wrong, despite being heralded as a KR, CP was a miss as a draft pick.
A total bust doesn't play in the NFL for as long as he has. He was a bad pick because he wasn't mentally ready for the NFL and it took him quite a while to find a way to fit.
As to JJ and Darrisaw, if you can't give him credit for drafting those two, then you can't fault him for drafting Kalil, Ponder and others. They were who was on the board at that time. Can't have it both ways. Only way that works is for the first pick.
Other teams obviously had reservations about JJ, not sure what, maybe it was his unorthodox running style. But you have to give Rick credit for pulling that trigger when the rest of the teams didn't pull it.
He was a. Bust based on what they paid for him
I never mentioned Ponder or Kalil, so no, I dont give him credit for getting lucky.
What exactly did they pay for him? I remember they moved up into the first round, but can't remember the compensation
Patterson was selected in the first round with the 29th overall pick by the Minnesota Vikings in the 2013 NFL Draft in a draft-day trade with the New England Patriots; the Patriots received four draft picks (a second, third, fourth and seventh)
We had 3 first round picks that year (Floyd, Rhodes, Patterson), but you still had a problem with the compensation to grab Patterson? I was more then okay with it especially since we still had another 4th round pick and needed a playmaker. They took a swing and got a couple Pro Bowls out of Patterson. I still contend it wasn't a complete bust of a pick.
Pro bowl at KR, you could have gotten the same impact out of a 4th round WR. Long snappers, kickers,, and punters get selected to the pro bowl too, would you say the same if he had spent that draft capital on one of those other special teams positions?
This team needed middle round picks at OL, LB, and other depth positions, hell maybe he could have taken a few flyers on QB instead?
Think of it this way, he spent 3 good picks and after 4 years had nothing to show for it. And if anybody had done their homework they would have known he was a flake and likely to never reach his potential.
Maybe, but Patterson has been a special kick returner since year 1. Those guys don't grow on trees either, and the Patriots really didn't do jack with the picks we traded to them. None received second contracts in New England. At least we got something with the pick.
What NE got with those picks is immaterial, belicheat is notoriously shitty in drafting good players.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Is it terrible that I wish Rick was still running things? Lol. Bring on the 7th rounders! At least we weren't getting fleeced by the Lions. Say what you want about Rick, but he did add some great talent to this roster...whether Zim actually utilized what was given to him correctly is a different conversation.
I don't think Spielman did a bad job at all. Underrated I think by Viking Nation overall. But I'm not going to shit on KAM yet. Way too early.
I just have real concerns about KAM, his background, and his approach to things overall. The draft kind of confirmed those concerns for me. I didn't have those same concerns with Rick and was surprised when the Vikings let him go. Rick did his job in assembling talent, but he let Zimmer do the coaching and decide whom to play as he should. After one offseason of KAM I miss Slick Rick
I think there were plenty of areas of learning curve with Spielman that would have put him on even your chopping block, KAM deserves that same leash IMO. I dont like how he ran his draft, but I cant say much bad about the players he picked. Its likely going to take a bit more before I would wish to go back to Ricks way of doing things.
The most maddening thing to me about Spielman was the accumulation of late round picks because he found value in not having to compete for players as undrafted free agents and could simply draft the guys he wanted. Otherwise I had no problems with Spielman and thought overall he did a good job assembling talent. Even his biggest draft busts, Matt Kalil and Christian Ponder, did anybody really have issue with drafting those players at the time? Kalil played a huge position of need for us and was thought to be the safest player in the draft. We had to have a QB in a draft class filled with shitty ones, and we took Ponder, who I also at the time felt had the most upside. It's not like he ever traded down 20 spots in the 1st round with a division rival for essentially a 3rd round pick so they could draft maybe the most talented player in the draft while we picked a safety.
he always played it as safe as he could, we were never really wowed by his moves, either in the draft or in dealing with free agents. hell look at the cousins signing, it was just money, he didnt have to really stick his neck out and make a move that was going to really set the franchise back. with little risk comes little reward, when Rick needed to swing for the fences he was playing Mauer ball and was more concerned about his average. In a way him and Kirk Cousins are kind of perfect for each other, you wont lose badly with them, you just arent very likely to win big either.
Ricks been the defacto general manager of this team since 2006. He took Adrian Peterson and Percy Harvin when there were injury and character concerns, so he's definitely taken on risk with draft picks before. He also traded a 1st round pick for Jared Allen, which at the time was as ballsy of a move that could be made with Allen's DUI issues.
We also have not had a lot of upper level draft picks but he was still able to snag Harrison Smith, Xavier Rhodes, Cordarelle Patterson, Justin Jefferson, and Darrisaw is going to be a really good player for us. There have definitely been misses but when you are constantly drafting in the lower half of the round the chances of missing become stronger and you can't account for injury (Sharrif Floyd, Hughes, Bridgewater) or arrests (Gladney). I look at the list of guys we've taken in the first round under Spielman and I only see three 1st round players I'd consider to be out and out busts; Kalil, Ponder, and Treadwell. So 16 years running the show with only 3 true busts. I challenge you to find another GM with that kind of track record. I don't think Rick should have been fired and replacing him with a stock trading analytics guy with a paper thin resume was a very questionable move
CPatt was a total ass miss, he traded multiple picks to move up into the first for a kick returner, JJ was a no brainer, he had to go WR and JJ was what was left when it got to the Vikes. Kind of the same with Darrisaw, no way he knew that he would still get him when he dropped down last year. Gladney was a wiff as well, despite all the warning signs he took him in the first, and honestly Gladney hadnt really shown much in his first season anyway.
Rick has enough on his resume to merit the firing, I am not banging the drum for KAM, I am simply saying rick got a decade ( more if you think he was pulling the trigger those first few years, I dont ) but I would say KAM gets 3 years to see how his moves pan out, lets not forget the salary cap, and abysmal roster disaster he inherited. lots of issues for him to try and address and I am going to wait until I see at least another year or two of his plan before I call for his head.
Patterson was a two time Pro Bowler and Associated Press all-pro as a kick returner for the Vikings. He never panned out as a wide receiver but you can't say he was a bust either.
I don't have a problem with the cap issue Kwesi inherited. The roster had been built to a point where we were all in the last couple years. Covid screwed us (along with everyone else) and I just have no explanation to what happened last year. With that said though, we had a window, we went for it...and I don't have a problem with it even if it means paying the piper down the road
Over his career Patterson was a 4X 1st team All Pro, 3X 2nd team All Pro, 4X Pro Bowler, and member of the All Decade team. The Vikings, with just a little bit more imagination, could've used him better.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Is it terrible that I wish Rick was still running things? Lol. Bring on the 7th rounders! At least we weren't getting fleeced by the Lions. Say what you want about Rick, but he did add some great talent to this roster...whether Zim actually utilized what was given to him correctly is a different conversation.
I don't think Spielman did a bad job at all. Underrated I think by Viking Nation overall. But I'm not going to shit on KAM yet. Way too early.
I just have real concerns about KAM, his background, and his approach to things overall. The draft kind of confirmed those concerns for me. I didn't have those same concerns with Rick and was surprised when the Vikings let him go. Rick did his job in assembling talent, but he let Zimmer do the coaching and decide whom to play as he should. After one offseason of KAM I miss Slick Rick
I think there were plenty of areas of learning curve with Spielman that would have put him on even your chopping block, KAM deserves that same leash IMO. I dont like how he ran his draft, but I cant say much bad about the players he picked. Its likely going to take a bit more before I would wish to go back to Ricks way of doing things.
The most maddening thing to me about Spielman was the accumulation of late round picks because he found value in not having to compete for players as undrafted free agents and could simply draft the guys he wanted. Otherwise I had no problems with Spielman and thought overall he did a good job assembling talent. Even his biggest draft busts, Matt Kalil and Christian Ponder, did anybody really have issue with drafting those players at the time? Kalil played a huge position of need for us and was thought to be the safest player in the draft. We had to have a QB in a draft class filled with shitty ones, and we took Ponder, who I also at the time felt had the most upside. It's not like he ever traded down 20 spots in the 1st round with a division rival for essentially a 3rd round pick so they could draft maybe the most talented player in the draft while we picked a safety.
he always played it as safe as he could, we were never really wowed by his moves, either in the draft or in dealing with free agents. hell look at the cousins signing, it was just money, he didnt have to really stick his neck out and make a move that was going to really set the franchise back. with little risk comes little reward, when Rick needed to swing for the fences he was playing Mauer ball and was more concerned about his average. In a way him and Kirk Cousins are kind of perfect for each other, you wont lose badly with them, you just arent very likely to win big either.
Ricks been the defacto general manager of this team since 2006. He took Adrian Peterson and Percy Harvin when there were injury and character concerns, so he's definitely taken on risk with draft picks before. He also traded a 1st round pick for Jared Allen, which at the time was as ballsy of a move that could be made with Allen's DUI issues.
We also have not had a lot of upper level draft picks but he was still able to snag Harrison Smith, Xavier Rhodes, Cordarelle Patterson, Justin Jefferson, and Darrisaw is going to be a really good player for us. There have definitely been misses but when you are constantly drafting in the lower half of the round the chances of missing become stronger and you can't account for injury (Sharrif Floyd, Hughes, Bridgewater) or arrests (Gladney). I look at the list of guys we've taken in the first round under Spielman and I only see three 1st round players I'd consider to be out and out busts; Kalil, Ponder, and Treadwell. So 16 years running the show with only 3 true busts. I challenge you to find another GM with that kind of track record. I don't think Rick should have been fired and replacing him with a stock trading analytics guy with a paper thin resume was a very questionable move
CPatt was a total ass miss, he traded multiple picks to move up into the first for a kick returner, JJ was a no brainer, he had to go WR and JJ was what was left when it got to the Vikes. Kind of the same with Darrisaw, no way he knew that he would still get him when he dropped down last year. Gladney was a wiff as well, despite all the warning signs he took him in the first, and honestly Gladney hadnt really shown much in his first season anyway.
Rick has enough on his resume to merit the firing, I am not banging the drum for KAM, I am simply saying rick got a decade ( more if you think he was pulling the trigger those first few years, I dont ) but I would say KAM gets 3 years to see how his moves pan out, lets not forget the salary cap, and abysmal roster disaster he inherited. lots of issues for him to try and address and I am going to wait until I see at least another year or two of his plan before I call for his head.
Patterson was a two time Pro Bowler and Associated Press all-pro as a kick returner for the Vikings. He never panned out as a wide receiver but you can't say he was a bust either.
I don't have a problem with the cap issue Kwesi inherited. The roster had been built to a point where we were all in the last couple years. Covid screwed us (along with everyone else) and I just have no explanation to what happened last year. With that said though, we had a window, we went for it...and I don't have a problem with it even if it means paying the piper down the road
Over his career Patterson was a 4X 1st team All Pro, 3X 2nd team All Pro, 4X Pro Bowler, and member of the All Decade team. The Vikings, with just a little bit more imagination, could've used him better.
Seems to me they tried, he just wasnt bright enough or focused enough at the time to pick up what they were trying to teach him. He was more focused on his off field endeavors or other.
Remember he was supposed to go work with a receiver coach ( Irvin? ) one off season and instead went to some muscle camp?
KR isn't a big enough part of the game imo to get all excited over all pro or pro bowl honors, and without his KR abilities nobody would know his name, and likely wouldn't be in the league any more. If Rick had spent all that capital on a TE that never panned out at his position, but somehow turned into an all pro long snapper, would he be considered a bust? IMO yes.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Over his career Patterson was a 4X 1st team All Pro, 3X 2nd team All Pro, 4X Pro Bowler, and member of the All Decade team. The Vikings, with just a little bit more imagination, could've used him better.
Seems to me they tried, he just wasnt bright enough or focused enough at the time to pick up what they were trying to teach him. He was more focused on his off field endeavors or other.
Remember he was supposed to go work with a receiver coach ( Irvin? ) one off season and instead went to some muscle camp?
KR isn't a big enough part of the game imo to get all excited over all pro or pro bowl honors, and without his KR abilities nobody would know his name, and likely wouldn't be in the league any more. If Rick had spent all that capital on a TE that never panned out at his position, but somehow turned into an all pro long snapper, would he be considered a bust? IMO yes.
No, they didn't. They kept trying to turn him into a downfield receiver. They should've continued to use him as a weapon out of the backfield. His two best seasons by far were his rookie season and last year, where most of his production came out of the backfield. About 1800 yards and 18 TDs in those two seasons combined, not counting kick off returns. These were really the only two seasons where he was used properly.
|
