The Fall of the House of Bill

[StickyBun]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3904...bert-kraft

[Guest]

It was inevitable. 

[Guest]

Bill is tanking for Caleb Williams.  Deftly moving Mac Jones in and out of the lineup at just the right moments when he's ready to make another huge mistake.  Brilliant!  :p

[Guest]

It proves that in the NFL, its all about the QB. Pretty funny how a 'great HC' always has a great QB. Always. Sometimes more than one. I mean the evidence is all right there. 

Don Shula: Bob Griese, Dan Marino
Bill Parcells: Jeff Hostetler, Phil Simms
Chuck Noll: Terry Bradshaw
Bud Grant: Fran Tarkenton
Don Coryell: Dan Fouts
Bill Walsh: Joe Montana, Steve Young

I could go on and on and on....

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:
It proves that in the NFL, its all about the QB. Pretty funny how a 'great HC' always has a great QB. Always. Sometimes more than one. I mean the evidence is all right there. 

Don Shula: Bob Griese, Dan Marino
Bill Parcells: Jeff Hostetler, Phil Simms
Chuck Noll: Terry Bradshaw
Bud Grant: Fran Tarkenton
Don Coryell: Dan Fouts
Bill Walsh: Joe Montana, Steve Young

I could go on and on and on....

I would not agree on the Giants (Hoss and Phil were good)
It makes me think that Joe Gibbs was one of the greatest coaches ever to win 3 superbowls with three different average QBs.

[Guest]

@kmillard said:

@StickyBun said:
It proves that in the NFL, its all about the QB. Pretty funny how a 'great HC' always has a great QB. Always. Sometimes more than one. I mean the evidence is all right there. 

Don Shula: Bob Griese, Dan Marino
Bill Parcells: Jeff Hostetler, Phil Simms
Chuck Noll: Terry Bradshaw
Bud Grant: Fran Tarkenton
Don Coryell: Dan Fouts
Bill Walsh: Joe Montana, Steve Young

I could go on and on and on....

I would not agree on the Giants (Hoss and Phil were good)
It makes me think that Joe Gibbs was one of the greatest coaches ever to win 3 superbowls with three different average QBs.

Great exception to this rule and a valid point on Gibbs.

[Guest]

I wonder if this resolves the debate among Patriot fans if their success was more Belly cheat or Tom Brady?  Believe me, they were very split on that a few years ago.  I always said Tom Brady was the main reason (not all but main reason) they won all those Superbowl's others would argue that it was the genius HC.  As others have pointed out Belly Cheat is a horrible drafter and has been his whole career.  Granted he is a Defensive genius IMO and an excellent overall HOF HC but I am not convinced he would be HOF HC without Brady.  Where-as Brady would be HOF with most coaches and maybe even despite

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@kmillard said:

@StickyBun said:
It proves that in the NFL, its all about the QB. Pretty funny how a 'great HC' always has a great QB. Always. Sometimes more than one. I mean the evidence is all right there. 

Don Shula: Bob Griese, Dan Marino
Bill Parcells: Jeff Hostetler, Phil Simms
Chuck Noll: Terry Bradshaw
Bud Grant: Fran Tarkenton
Don Coryell: Dan Fouts
Bill Walsh: Joe Montana, Steve Young

I could go on and on and on....

I would not agree on the Giants (Hoss and Phil were good)
It makes me think that Joe Gibbs was one of the greatest coaches ever to win 3 superbowls with three different average QBs.

Great exception to this rule and a valid point on Gibbs.

I do agree with your original statement though about how it is all about the QB, especially now.

[Guest]

@minny65 said:
I wonder if this resolves the debate among Patriot fans if their success was more Belly cheat or Tom Brady?  Believe me, they were very split on that a few years ago.  I always said Tom Brady was the main reason (not all but main reason) they won all those Superbowl's others would argue that it was the genius HC.  As others have pointed out Belly Cheat is a horrible drafter and has been his whole career.  Granted he is a Defensive genius IMO and an excellent overall HOF HC but I am not convinced he would be HOF HC without Brady.  Where-as Brady would be HOF with most coaches and maybe even despite

I think to win 6 Super Bowls both Brady and Belichick had to be good. Belichick mostly as defensive coordinator.

As you mention, Beli was a terrible drafter, but he was also a pretty crap GM. Who remembers when he traded a 2nd round pick for 30-year-old WR Muhammed Sanu, who would be released a year later?

[Guest]

I don’t think there’s very many “great” qbs who are drafted and “making”
coaches look great.  I don’t think guys
just show up and “are” great.  I think
there’s a synergistic thing that happens where a potentially great QB is placed
with the right coaches and in the right system, and then magic happens where
the player executes at an elite level.  I
think we could all speculate on whether or not Brady would have been Brady if
put in a different situation, perhaps one where he didn’t have a defense, or
his HC/OC changed every year.  One thing
we know for certain is that no one thought he was great enough to draft him
with a high draft pick.
Obviously, bringing in an established HOF QB is different and will make any coach look good with the right talent around them.