@ supafreak84
I don't think we ever had a shot at drafting 8 with a loss... If I remember correctly, we needed a bunch of teams to win/lose to get as high as 9 or 10 with a loss, but the most likely outcome was we were picking 11th with a loss. We beat Chicago and ended up with 12. The week 17 win didn't really change anything.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@supafreak84
I don't think we ever had a shot at drafting 8 with a loss... If I remember correctly, we needed a bunch of teams to win/lose to get as high as 9 or 10 with a loss, but the most likely outcome was we were picking 11th with a loss. We beat Chicago and ended up with 12. The week 17 win didn't really change anything.
I don't recall all the tiebreaker scenarios but I would have taken any improvement in draft positioning, even if it was only one spot. That one spot happens to be Washington who could easily grab Stingley or Hamilton if they were to slip right in front of us.
I don't know...I'm just not a fan of winning meaningless end of year games, especially when that's not playing any of the young players or has any bearing towards this season after a complete regime change.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
I've been seeing quite a few tweets today from guys like Brugler and others that say Jermaine Johnson may not get past the Jets at 4. Again, take it with a grain of salt.
This on the heels of NFL Network mocking him 3rd overall to Houston in their mock draft yesterday.
The top 3 picks in this draft are going to be edge rushers. Pretty confident about that at this point. The fourth edge won't last long after that, whether it's Johnson or Thibedeaux.
And Ive seen Walker mocked anywhere from 2nd overall to falling to the Vikings at 12...I think the former is far more likely.
There's a lot of smoke currently that Walker will be going 1st overall to Jacksonville. If that happens Hutchinson is a lock to Detroit at #2. Houston will take whomever their preference is between Johnson and Thibedeaux, and right now Johnson has the momentum.
The way that plays out helps the Vikings quite a bit in their pursuit of DBs. Since it nearly guarantees (barring a trade) Sauce or Stingley making it to #8 where the Vikings theoretically get in range to move up if they prefer.
Sauce will certainly be off the board. There's an outside chance that either Stingley or Hamilton will still be on the board (I don't see both), but we'd probably have to jump Washington picking in front of us to secure them. Like I said, the more I look at the way this thing could play out, the more pissed I am we played to win against Chicago in a completely meaningless game when we had already been eliminated. If we would have lost, our draft options would be much better and we wouldn't have to worry about giving up draft capital to potentially move up. It's going to be very interesting to see how Kwesi plays this
Yeah, but if we picked at 8, we'd be mad because we're not in position for Sauce and we have to choose between a slow safety and a corner who hasn't played well in 3 seasons. It's pretty much the same every year, but it's mostly perception. If we pick at 12, the blue chip players run out at 10. If we pick at 20, they run out at 18.
I like our options better at 8 then 12. That would be enough in itself to lose that game in a wasted season which was what I was rooting for when others were like "any chance to beat the Bears we should take it " No! Thats just stupidity with the end result exactly what it is currently as far as draft position. We are essentially the cut off point for the blue chip talent in this draft and are essentially praying a quarterback or two gets drafted in the top 10 so a position player falls in our laps. We'll see how it plays out, but right now we are probably on the outside looking in on Sauce, Stingley, and Hamilton. We lose that game to the Bears, one if not two of those guys are probably sitting there at 8. Geoff laid out a scenario in his last mock where we move up to 9 in a trade with Seattle to secure Stingley at the cost of a 3rd and 6th round draft picks. So...essentially the cost of that meaningless win against the Bears were two draft picks to move up and secure the guy we wanted and could have picked at no cost had we lost. Just food for thought for the "any win is a good win" crowd
Wouldn't we all like our options better at 8 than 12? Of course. The higher the better. But that's just about odds. It doesn't mean you're going to end up with a better player. Hell, you've been following the draft probably as long as I have. And how they're stacked now is nothing at all how they will end up.
For example, best WR taken in '20 was the 5th WR taken. 2nd best was 3rd taken. 3rd best was 7th taken. Best DB that same year was the 3rd taken, 2nd best was the 12th taken, 3rd best was the 10th taken. In fact, of the top 5 DBs taken that year, 4 have been busts so far.
So don't assume these guys are going to play like they're currently ranked by a bunch of media scouts-- Sauce 1st, Hamilton 2nd, then Stingley, McDuffie, etc. I can pretty much guarantee you that this is not at all how they will rank in the NFL. They don't call it a crapshoot for nothing.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
I've been seeing quite a few tweets today from guys like Brugler and others that say Jermaine Johnson may not get past the Jets at 4. Again, take it with a grain of salt.
This on the heels of NFL Network mocking him 3rd overall to Houston in their mock draft yesterday.
The top 3 picks in this draft are going to be edge rushers. Pretty confident about that at this point. The fourth edge won't last long after that, whether it's Johnson or Thibedeaux.
And Ive seen Walker mocked anywhere from 2nd overall to falling to the Vikings at 12...I think the former is far more likely.
There's a lot of smoke currently that Walker will be going 1st overall to Jacksonville. If that happens Hutchinson is a lock to Detroit at #2. Houston will take whomever their preference is between Johnson and Thibedeaux, and right now Johnson has the momentum.
The way that plays out helps the Vikings quite a bit in their pursuit of DBs. Since it nearly guarantees (barring a trade) Sauce or Stingley making it to #8 where the Vikings theoretically get in range to move up if they prefer.
Sauce will certainly be off the board. There's an outside chance that either Stingley or Hamilton will still be on the board (I don't see both), but we'd probably have to jump Washington picking in front of us to secure them. Like I said, the more I look at the way this thing could play out, the more pissed I am we played to win against Chicago in a completely meaningless game when we had already been eliminated. If we would have lost, our draft options would be much better and we wouldn't have to worry about giving up draft capital to potentially move up. It's going to be very interesting to see how Kwesi plays this
Yeah, but if we picked at 8, we'd be mad because we're not in position for Sauce and we have to choose between a slow safety and a corner who hasn't played well in 3 seasons. It's pretty much the same every year, but it's mostly perception. If we pick at 12, the blue chip players run out at 10. If we pick at 20, they run out at 18.
I like our options better at 8 then 12. That would be enough in itself to lose that game in a wasted season which was what I was rooting for when others were like "any chance to beat the Bears we should take it " No! Thats just stupidity with the end result exactly what it is currently as far as draft position. We are essentially the cut off point for the blue chip talent in this draft and are essentially praying a quarterback or two gets drafted in the top 10 so a position player falls in our laps. We'll see how it plays out, but right now we are probably on the outside looking in on Sauce, Stingley, and Hamilton. We lose that game to the Bears, one if not two of those guys are probably sitting there at 8. Geoff laid out a scenario in his last mock where we move up to 9 in a trade with Seattle to secure Stingley at the cost of a 3rd and 6th round draft picks. So...essentially the cost of that meaningless win against the Bears were two draft picks to move up and secure the guy we wanted and could have picked at no cost had we lost. Just food for thought for the "any win is a good win" crowd
Wouldn't we all like our options better at 8 than 12? Of course. The higher the better. But that's just about odds. It doesn't mean you're going to end up with a better player. Hell, you've been following the draft probably as long as I have. And how they're stacked now is nothing at all how they will end up.
For example, best WR taken in '20 was the 5th WR taken. 2nd best was 3rd taken. 3rd best was 7th taken. Best DB that same year was the 3rd taken, 2nd best was the 12th taken, 3rd best was the 10th taken. In fact, of the top 5 DBs taken that year, 4 have been busts so far.
So don't assume these guys are going to play like they're currently ranked by a bunch of media scouts-- Sauce 1st, Hamilton 2nd, then Stingley, McDuffie, etc. I can pretty much guarantee you that this is not at all how they will rank in the NFL. They don't call it a crapshoot for nothing.
No you are right in that it's all a total crapshoot. The point being I like options, even if it's one draft spot, that could mean the difference in us not getting a blue chip prospect and us getting one. Not a good move by the Wilfs letting Zimm play to win that last game rolling out all the starters. It is what it is at this point and let's just hope the draft unfolds how we'd like...
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
I've been seeing quite a few tweets today from guys like Brugler and others that say Jermaine Johnson may not get past the Jets at 4. Again, take it with a grain of salt.
This on the heels of NFL Network mocking him 3rd overall to Houston in their mock draft yesterday.
The top 3 picks in this draft are going to be edge rushers. Pretty confident about that at this point. The fourth edge won't last long after that, whether it's Johnson or Thibedeaux.
And Ive seen Walker mocked anywhere from 2nd overall to falling to the Vikings at 12...I think the former is far more likely.
There's a lot of smoke currently that Walker will be going 1st overall to Jacksonville. If that happens Hutchinson is a lock to Detroit at #2. Houston will take whomever their preference is between Johnson and Thibedeaux, and right now Johnson has the momentum.
The way that plays out helps the Vikings quite a bit in their pursuit of DBs. Since it nearly guarantees (barring a trade) Sauce or Stingley making it to #8 where the Vikings theoretically get in range to move up if they prefer.
Sauce will certainly be off the board. There's an outside chance that either Stingley or Hamilton will still be on the board (I don't see both), but we'd probably have to jump Washington picking in front of us to secure them. Like I said, the more I look at the way this thing could play out, the more pissed I am we played to win against Chicago in a completely meaningless game when we had already been eliminated. If we would have lost, our draft options would be much better and we wouldn't have to worry about giving up draft capital to potentially move up. It's going to be very interesting to see how Kwesi plays this
Yeah, but if we picked at 8, we'd be mad because we're not in position for Sauce and we have to choose between a slow safety and a corner who hasn't played well in 3 seasons. It's pretty much the same every year, but it's mostly perception. If we pick at 12, the blue chip players run out at 10. If we pick at 20, they run out at 18.
I like our options better at 8 then 12. That would be enough in itself to lose that game in a wasted season which was what I was rooting for when others were like "any chance to beat the Bears we should take it " No! Thats just stupidity with the end result exactly what it is currently as far as draft position. We are essentially the cut off point for the blue chip talent in this draft and are essentially praying a quarterback or two gets drafted in the top 10 so a position player falls in our laps. We'll see how it plays out, but right now we are probably on the outside looking in on Sauce, Stingley, and Hamilton. We lose that game to the Bears, one if not two of those guys are probably sitting there at 8. Geoff laid out a scenario in his last mock where we move up to 9 in a trade with Seattle to secure Stingley at the cost of a 3rd and 6th round draft picks. So...essentially the cost of that meaningless win against the Bears were two draft picks to move up and secure the guy we wanted and could have picked at no cost had we lost. Just food for thought for the "any win is a good win" crowd
Wouldn't we all like our options better at 8 than 12? Of course. The higher the better. But that's just about odds. It doesn't mean you're going to end up with a better player. Hell, you've been following the draft probably as long as I have. And how they're stacked now is nothing at all how they will end up.
For example, best WR taken in '20 was the 5th WR taken. 2nd best was 3rd taken. 3rd best was 7th taken. Best DB that same year was the 3rd taken, 2nd best was the 12th taken, 3rd best was the 10th taken. In fact, of the top 5 DBs taken that year, 4 have been busts so far.
So don't assume these guys are going to play like they're currently ranked by a bunch of media scouts-- Sauce 1st, Hamilton 2nd, then Stingley, McDuffie, etc. I can pretty much guarantee you that this is not at all how they will rank in the NFL. They don't call it a crapshoot for nothing.
No you are right in that it's all a total crapshoot. The point being I like options, even if it's one draft spot, that could mean the difference in us not getting a blue chip prospect and us getting one. Not a good move by the Wilfs letting Zimm play to win that last game rolling out all the starters. It is what it is at this point and let's just hope the draft unfolds how we'd like...
Meh...I don't really care about winning or losing a meaningless game and that being the difference between picking 8th, 10th, 12th, whatever. Last year's #8 was Jaycee Horn. #12 was Micah Parsons. 1st team All Pro and the DROY. Just doesn't make a whole bunch of difference IMO.
I'd feel different if we're talking about the 1st overall.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
I've been seeing quite a few tweets today from guys like Brugler and others that say Jermaine Johnson may not get past the Jets at 4. Again, take it with a grain of salt.
This on the heels of NFL Network mocking him 3rd overall to Houston in their mock draft yesterday.
The top 3 picks in this draft are going to be edge rushers. Pretty confident about that at this point. The fourth edge won't last long after that, whether it's Johnson or Thibedeaux.
And Ive seen Walker mocked anywhere from 2nd overall to falling to the Vikings at 12...I think the former is far more likely.
There's a lot of smoke currently that Walker will be going 1st overall to Jacksonville. If that happens Hutchinson is a lock to Detroit at #2. Houston will take whomever their preference is between Johnson and Thibedeaux, and right now Johnson has the momentum.
The way that plays out helps the Vikings quite a bit in their pursuit of DBs. Since it nearly guarantees (barring a trade) Sauce or Stingley making it to #8 where the Vikings theoretically get in range to move up if they prefer.
Sauce will certainly be off the board. There's an outside chance that either Stingley or Hamilton will still be on the board (I don't see both), but we'd probably have to jump Washington picking in front of us to secure them. Like I said, the more I look at the way this thing could play out, the more pissed I am we played to win against Chicago in a completely meaningless game when we had already been eliminated. If we would have lost, our draft options would be much better and we wouldn't have to worry about giving up draft capital to potentially move up. It's going to be very interesting to see how Kwesi plays this
Yeah, but if we picked at 8, we'd be mad because we're not in position for Sauce and we have to choose between a slow safety and a corner who hasn't played well in 3 seasons. It's pretty much the same every year, but it's mostly perception. If we pick at 12, the blue chip players run out at 10. If we pick at 20, they run out at 18.
I like our options better at 8 then 12. That would be enough in itself to lose that game in a wasted season which was what I was rooting for when others were like "any chance to beat the Bears we should take it " No! Thats just stupidity with the end result exactly what it is currently as far as draft position. We are essentially the cut off point for the blue chip talent in this draft and are essentially praying a quarterback or two gets drafted in the top 10 so a position player falls in our laps. We'll see how it plays out, but right now we are probably on the outside looking in on Sauce, Stingley, and Hamilton. We lose that game to the Bears, one if not two of those guys are probably sitting there at 8. Geoff laid out a scenario in his last mock where we move up to 9 in a trade with Seattle to secure Stingley at the cost of a 3rd and 6th round draft picks. So...essentially the cost of that meaningless win against the Bears were two draft picks to move up and secure the guy we wanted and could have picked at no cost had we lost. Just food for thought for the "any win is a good win" crowd
Wouldn't we all like our options better at 8 than 12? Of course. The higher the better. But that's just about odds. It doesn't mean you're going to end up with a better player. Hell, you've been following the draft probably as long as I have. And how they're stacked now is nothing at all how they will end up.
For example, best WR taken in '20 was the 5th WR taken. 2nd best was 3rd taken. 3rd best was 7th taken. Best DB that same year was the 3rd taken, 2nd best was the 12th taken, 3rd best was the 10th taken. In fact, of the top 5 DBs taken that year, 4 have been busts so far.
So don't assume these guys are going to play like they're currently ranked by a bunch of media scouts-- Sauce 1st, Hamilton 2nd, then Stingley, McDuffie, etc. I can pretty much guarantee you that this is not at all how they will rank in the NFL. They don't call it a crapshoot for nothing.
No you are right in that it's all a total crapshoot. The point being I like options, even if it's one draft spot, that could mean the difference in us not getting a blue chip prospect and us getting one. Not a good move by the Wilfs letting Zimm play to win that last game rolling out all the starters. It is what it is at this point and let's just hope the draft unfolds how we'd like...
Meh...I don't really care about winning or losing a meaningless game and that being the difference between picking 8th, 10th, 12th, whatever. Last year's #8 was Jaycee Horn. #12 was Micah Parsons. 1st team All Pro and the DROY. Just doesn't make a whole bunch of difference IMO.
I'd feel different if we're talking about the 1st overall.
This is my feeling as well. If you win a game and lose out of Trevor Lawrence or a generational player, I get it. But once you get around that pick 10 range the quality of player is somewhat indifferent and you can move around the board easier as well.
From the rumor mill...
"While Thibodeaux's poor reputation has gotten publicity leading up the 2022 NFL Draft, another edge rusher who is receiving poor marks for character has flown under the radar, Florida State defensive end Jermaine Johnson. Multiple team sources say Johnson's character issues are significant, with one director of player personnel labelling Johnson as worse than Thibodeaux. Teams received negative feedback from Georgia, and the character issues played a part in Johnson transferring from the Bulldogs for his senior year. Johnson did well in the pre-draft workouts and at the Senior Bowl, so he is probably safe as a top-20 selection. But if he slides, the makeup question will be what is dragging him down"
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
From the rumor mill...
"While Thibodeaux's poor reputation has gotten publicity leading up the 2022 NFL Draft, another edge rusher who is receiving poor marks for character has flown under the radar, Florida State defensive end Jermaine Johnson. Multiple team sources say Johnson's character issues are significant, with one director of player personnel labelling Johnson as worse than Thibodeaux. Teams received negative feedback from Georgia, and the character issues played a part in Johnson transferring from the Bulldogs for his senior year. Johnson did well in the pre-draft workouts and at the Senior Bowl, so he is probably safe as a top-20 selection. But if he slides, the makeup question will be what is dragging him down"
This is the first that I'm hearing that JJ has character issues. Was this well known? Could this be a case of disinformation planted by a team looking for a DE in the later part of the first round? It's a big drop in talent off between JJ & Karlaftis.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
From the rumor mill...
"While Thibodeaux's poor reputation has gotten publicity leading up the 2022 NFL Draft, another edge rusher who is receiving poor marks for character has flown under the radar, Florida State defensive end Jermaine Johnson. Multiple team sources say Johnson's character issues are significant, with one director of player personnel labelling Johnson as worse than Thibodeaux. Teams received negative feedback from Georgia, and the character issues played a part in Johnson transferring from the Bulldogs for his senior year. Johnson did well in the pre-draft workouts and at the Senior Bowl, so he is probably safe as a top-20 selection. But if he slides, the makeup question will be what is dragging him down"
Yeah, this is the first I'm hearing about that too. I've heard he's a bit arrogant, but my God, what's wrong with that in a football player? This could be smoke. It's that time of year.
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