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Trent McDuffie's arms measured 29.75 and the twit-o-sphere has been quick to point out some weird stat like no CB with arms under 30" has made the pro bowl in the last 10 years...or something like that. To me, this sounds like one of those meaningless stats like QB record against winning teams. So I did a little research...
The biggest takeaway is that probably 90% of NFL corners have arms in the 30 to 32 inch range, so we're not talking about a huge variance to begin with. And McDuffie is 1/4 inch short of that range, so the 30 inch benchmark is a little silly.
There are dozens of very good corners in the 30 to 30.6 range. Ty Law (8X Pro Bowler), Aneas Williams (5X Pro Bowler), Kareem Jackson, Dre Bly, etc. And quite a few with arms the same or shorter than McDuffie: Antoine Winfield Sr (3X Pro Bowler) and Asante Samuel (4X Pro Bowler).
One interesting thing is that Derek Stingley Jr. measured 30.6. So the difference between this supposed "prototype" and McDuffie is about the width of a nickel.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Trent McDuffie's arms measured 29.75 and the twit-o-sphere has been quick to point out some weird stat like no CB with arms under 30" has made the pro bowl in the last 10 years...or something like that. To me, this sounds like one of those meaningless stats like QB record against winning teams. So I did a little research...
The biggest takeaway is that probably 90% of NFL corners have arms in the 30 to 32 inch range, so we're not talking about a huge variance to begin with. And McDuffie is 1/4 inch short of that range, so the 30 inch benchmark is a little silly.
There are dozens of very good corners in the 30 to 30.6 range. Ty Law (8X Pro Bowler), Aneas Williams (5X Pro Bowler), Kareem Jackson, Dre Bly, etc. And quite a few with arms the same or shorter than McDuffie: Antoine Winfield Sr (3X Pro Bowler) and Asante Samuel (4X Pro Bowler).
One interesting thing is that Derek Stingley Jr. measured 30.6. So the difference between this supposed "prototype" and McDuffie is about the width of a nickel.
I think a lot of it comes from recent history. I looked up CBs from 2016 to now and I dont think there was a CB worth a damn with arms under 30”. We can say “Player X only had arms 30.25” so why is he any different, but I think it’s one of those where you have to cut it off at some point.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Trent McDuffie's arms measured 29.75 and the twit-o-sphere has been quick to point out some weird stat like no CB with arms under 30" has made the pro bowl in the last 10 years...or something like that. To me, this sounds like one of those meaningless stats like QB record against winning teams. So I did a little research...
The biggest takeaway is that probably 90% of NFL corners have arms in the 30 to 32 inch range, so we're not talking about a huge variance to begin with. And McDuffie is 1/4 inch short of that range, so the 30 inch benchmark is a little silly.
There are dozens of very good corners in the 30 to 30.6 range. Ty Law (8X Pro Bowler), Aneas Williams (5X Pro Bowler), Kareem Jackson, Dre Bly, etc. And quite a few with arms the same or shorter than McDuffie: Antoine Winfield Sr (3X Pro Bowler) and Asante Samuel (4X Pro Bowler).
One interesting thing is that Derek Stingley Jr. measured 30.6. So the difference between this supposed "prototype" and McDuffie is about the width of a nickel.
I think a lot of it comes from recent history. I looked up CBs from 2016 to now and I dont think there was a CB worth a damn with arms under 30”. We can say “Player X only had arms 30.25” so why is he any different, but I think it’s one of those where you have to cut it off at some point.
Right, it’s arbitrary. IOW meaningless.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Trent McDuffie's arms measured 29.75 and the twit-o-sphere has been quick to point out some weird stat like no CB with arms under 30" has made the pro bowl in the last 10 years...or something like that. To me, this sounds like one of those meaningless stats like QB record against winning teams. So I did a little research...
The biggest takeaway is that probably 90% of NFL corners have arms in the 30 to 32 inch range, so we're not talking about a huge variance to begin with. And McDuffie is 1/4 inch short of that range, so the 30 inch benchmark is a little silly.
There are dozens of very good corners in the 30 to 30.6 range. Ty Law (8X Pro Bowler), Aneas Williams (5X Pro Bowler), Kareem Jackson, Dre Bly, etc. And quite a few with arms the same or shorter than McDuffie: Antoine Winfield Sr (3X Pro Bowler) and Asante Samuel (4X Pro Bowler).
One interesting thing is that Derek Stingley Jr. measured 30.6. So the difference between this supposed "prototype" and McDuffie is about the width of a nickel.
I think a lot of it comes from recent history. I looked up CBs from 2016 to now and I dont think there was a CB worth a damn with arms under 30”. We can say “Player X only had arms 30.25” so why is he any different, but I think it’s one of those where you have to cut it off at some point.
Right, it’s arbitrary. IOW meaningless.
I dont think it’s meaningless. The job of a scout is to evaluate players and to find weaknesses. Does his short arms create a problem? None of us know. All we know is no corner from 2016 to now with arms under 30” have been jack in the NFL. It matters, but how much? Pickett is facing the same issue with his baby hands
sloths have arms twice as long as their legs, but I dont want one at corner.
gang, dont get caught up in combine numbers and 40 times. watch film.
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
sloths have arms twice as long as their legs, but I dont want one at corner.
gang, dont get caught up in combine numbers and 40 times. watch film.
Traits matter in the NFL. McDuffie may be a good CB, but that might be in the slot rather than on the outside. After drafting Mac, Hughes, and Gladney in the first or second rounds in recent drafts... and seeing them all play the slot with arms longer than McDuffie... we need an outside CB at 12, not a slot guy.
The only DBs we should take at our pick are Sauce, Stingley, or Hamilton (S).
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
sloths have arms twice as long as their legs, but I dont want one at corner.
gang, dont get caught up in combine numbers and 40 times. watch film.
That's exactly it. McDuffie is an exceptional talent. He may end up being the best corner from this draft. If his arm length were a problem, you'd see him struggle in press. He doesn't. He's great in press. In fact, he does everything pretty well: Inside, outside, man, zone, press, off, doesn't matter. And his instincts are off the charts. That bodes well for development, as does the fact that he watches film 4 hours a night.
Two, three years from now folks are going to wonder why this All Pro corner dropped so far. Same reason as Darelle Revis I suspect. Perception of size issues. "Perception" being the key word.
The difference between McDuffie's arm length and Derek Stingley Jr is 8/10ths of an inch....about the diameter of a nickel. The width of a wine bottle cork. That so many consider this a deal breaker for McDuffie is really kind of...edit...I won't go there.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ Vanguard83 said:
sloths have arms twice as long as their legs, but I dont want one at corner.
gang, dont get caught up in combine numbers and 40 times. watch film.
Traits matter in the NFL. McDuffie may be a good CB, but that might be in the slot rather than on the outside. After drafting Mac, Hughes, and Gladney in the first or second rounds in recent drafts... and seeing them all play the slot with arms longer than McDuffie... we need an outside CB at 12, not a slot guy.
The only DBs we should take at our pick are Sauce, Stingley, or Hamilton (S).
Thats where I am at too...Either of those 3, Edge, a top WR prospect or trade-down.
@MB may be right on this one, but I also have a gut feel McDuffie's future in the league is slot db. I just couldn't do that with #12 pick.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Vanguard83 said:
sloths have arms twice as long as their legs, but I dont want one at corner.
gang, dont get caught up in combine numbers and 40 times. watch film.
That's exactly it. McDuffie is an exceptional talent. He may end up being the best corner from this draft. If his arm length were a problem, you'd see him struggle in press. He doesn't. He's great in press. In fact, he does everything pretty well: Inside, outside, man, zone, press, off, doesn't matter. And his instincts are off the charts. That bodes well for development, as does the fact that he watches film 4 hours a night.
Two, three years from now folks are going to wonder why this All Pro corner dropped so far. Same reason as Darelle Revis I suspect. Perception of size issues. "Perception" being the key word.
The difference between McDuffie's arm length and Derek Stingley Jr is 8/10ths of an inch....about the diameter of a nickel. The width of a wine bottle cork. That so many consider this a deal breaker for McDuffie is really kind of...edit...I won't go there.
It isn't an indictment (for me) on whether he will be a good NFL CB or not... I do like him as a prospewct. But with shorter arms than most CBs and being under 6 feet tall... most guys like that get moved into the slot when they get to the NFL. And those guys normally don't get taken in the first round (usually the back end like Hughes and Gladney), let alone at #12.
Look at Mac Alexander for a recent Vikings pick. 5 star recruit at Clemson, didn't give up a TD to anyone in college football in his last two years as a starter (?) and QBs completed like 29% of the balls thrown his way in his last college season. Reported film junkie, confident, fiery player/leader. Came into the NFL and he's been a slot guy his whole career. He has similar size, but longer arms than McDuffie.
Now I think McDuffie can have a better career than Mac, but he'll be defying odds to play on the outside AND become as good as you think he can be. I'm good if we take him in a trade back scenario, but not at 12.
The length of arms, unless they’re a T-Rex means absolutely nothing. The first post provides several players that prove it a spurious relationship. It makes zero difference as to where they will line up. McDuffie rates out as a top notch draft prospect most likely going to play on the outside in the NFL.
This, like the length of offensive lineman’s arms are in many ways old wives tales. It’s old school coaches and evaluators nonsense. Under the old beliefs, guys like Joe Thomas or Jason Peters wouldn’t even have been on some draft boards at tackle because their arms were “too short”. Unless they are way outside the norm, plenty of great players come in under the “standard”. McDuffie will be fine. His 38.5” vertical should help make up for it.
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