Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I build through my lines, hell yes I take a dominant big man, from a tested team/conference, if he's there at 12. If the top 1- 2 corners are gone I move onto Davis, or I am looking to move down although it needs to be for value.
Thats my line of thinking too...
Gardner, a medically cleared Stingley or a blue chip DL before I drop to next tier of DB's
To Maroons point, not sure you go Davis @ 12 unless you are pretty sure he can be more than a 2 down guy. Another Edge in the rotation would be my first choice. And I am a really big fan of Davis too.
Barring a gas mask incident I don't think Sauce is making it out of the top-6. There are too many teams in the #2 (yes the Lions!) through #6 that like him too much. Stingley also has been getting some late steam to fall into the back forth of the top 10 vs. the #12 - #20 range he's been mocked in.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Little chance IMO. We just signed Harrison Phillips to play inside for us and Davis, while clearly a physical freak, has some bad tape out there. Do you take a 2-down player in the top 12?
QBs, LTs, CBs and pass rushers are premium positions. Nose tackles who don't rush the passer is not one of them.
But who really knows? This is a new regime. For years we may not have known the specific player the Vikings are going to take, but we always knew what position. In the last 10 years, the only surprise was Mike Hughes.
It will be interesting to see if KAM and company are as predictable.
I am not convinced Phillips would preclude them from taking a NT. He can play NT but also could be used as a base-end since Donatell's entire scheme is based on setting hard edges with the 5T and OLBs on early downs.
I'm not too worried about Davis' tape. He does things on the field that are spectacular not only for a NT, but any interior D-lineman. His ability to work laterally is pretty incredible. There are not many sideline to sideline NTs out there.
What ultimately matters is if he can develop a legitimate pass rush repertoire outside of a bull rush. He has the physical skillset to be absolutely lethal if he could win quick at the LOS. But I do think people are assuming that will happen based on his traits vs. anything he's done on tape. The 2-down/workload concerns are worrisome too.
Maybe this is more of a hot-take, but I would venture a guess that Wyatt ends up being a more productive D-lineman in the NFL than Davis. He is more of a pure 3T so not a fit for the Vikings, but his traits may explode in the NFL.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Little chance IMO. We just signed Harrison Phillips to play inside for us and Davis, while clearly a physical freak, has some bad tape out there. Do you take a 2-down player in the top 12?
QBs, LTs, CBs and pass rushers are premium positions. Nose tackles who don't rush the passer is not one of them.
But who really knows? This is a new regime. For years we may not have known the specific player the Vikings are going to take, but we always knew what position. In the last 10 years, the only surprise was Mike Hughes.
It will be interesting to see if KAM and company are as predictable.
I am not convinced Phillips would preclude them from taking a NT. He can play NT but also could be used as a base-end since Donatell's entire scheme is based on setting hard edges with the 5T and OLBs on early downs.
I'm not too worried about Davis' tape. He does things on the field that are spectacular not only for a NT, but any interior D-lineman. His ability to work laterally is pretty incredible. There are not many sideline to sideline NTs out there.
What ultimately matters is if he can develop a legitimate pass rush repertoire outside of a bull rush. He has the physical skillset to be absolutely lethal if he could win quick at the LOS. But I do think people are assuming that will happen based on his traits vs. anything he's done on tape. The 2-down/workload concerns are worrisome too.
Maybe this is more of a hot-take, but I would venture a guess that Wyatt ends up being a more productive D-lineman in the NFL than Davis. He is more of a pure 3T so not a fit for the Vikings, but his traits may explode in the NFL.
I agree, you could play Davis at nose or 5 technique. My argument for taking him would be that we don't have a difference maker on the interior defensive line and Davis has the physical tools and size to be a dominant player. Like guru stated, his ability to work laterally and track down ball carriers is elite. He needs to work on technique and plays too high, but get him coached up and he could be a special player. I'd take him every day of the week over McDuffie who is most peoples 3rd rated CB.
I’d take him in a heartbeat. He can play either nose or 5 tech. His ability against the run is big for me. On tape he plays with incredible range and pursuit. He shows to be extremely powerful.
The ability for a team to limit the run can be hard on an offense. Guys like him may not show the stats, but they can play a big role in winning games, which is obviously all that matters.
He commanded double and triple teams in college. If he continues that trend (which is likely with his size and power), it will open up what the defense can do with rushing linebackers.
I’m less worried about being 3 downs. If he plays a big role in getting teams to third and long, I like our chances at getting teams off the field. Let a fresh speed rusher get in there on third and crash the pocket. I don’t care.
To me, a first round pick that can have as big of an impact getting teams to third down as he can, is well worth it to me. I’ve seen far too many first round picks flush down the toilet for me to worry if he can play 3 downs. Btw, I think he can play three downs, but even if he can’t, I’d want him.
Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
I’d take him in a heartbeat. He can play either nose or 5 tech. His ability against the run is big for me. On tape he plays with incredible range and pursuit. He shows to be extremely powerful.
The ability for a team to limit the run can be hard on an offense. Guys like him may not show the stats, but they can play a big role in winning games, which is obviously all that matters.
He commanded double and triple teams in college. If he continues that trend (which is likely with his size and power), it will open up what the defense can do with rushing linebackers.
I’m less worried about being 3 downs. If he plays a big role in getting teams to third and long, I like our chances at getting teams off the field. Let a fresh speed rusher get in there on third and crash the pocket. I don’t care.
To me, a first round pick that can have as big of an impact getting teams to third down as he can, is well worth it to me. I’ve seen far too many first round picks flush down the toilet for me to worry if he can play 3 downs. Btw, I think he can play three downs, but even if he can’t, I’d want him.
I'd take him, but wouldn't say in a heartbeat. If he's there and our top corners are gone then I would rather trade down...but if we cant find a viable trade suitor then I wouldnt be mad about the pick.
Zadarius, Davis, and Hunter, with Hicks and Kendricks behind them would to a great foundation for a potentially great defense. I know this defense needs at least one CB that can play man press, so I will be surprised if they don't take a CB at 12. But taking the third best CB at 12 seems risky. Especially one that doesn't seem to get many interceptions. Another factor would be obtaining another CB in free agency, although they certainly need more than one.
Other options at 12 could be wr, center, or even QB, but far less likely.
Isn't this discussion fantastic? All the spring time optimism.
We're all worried about this or that. Arm length, 40 times ect. +1/2 of the 1st round are going to bust. All the fans from all the teams sit around a computer/tv/phone/tablet and think they have the next HOF'er and more then 1/2 of those fans will be disappointed in a couple years. We certainly have had our share of those lately.
I'm just hoping for a long term starter with our 1st pick. It'd be great to get the next JJ, Moss, Rhodes or whatever but end of the day as long as we don't screw up the "long term starter" part of the pick we'll be headed in the right direction.
If you look at Zimmers/Spielman's rise and fall it was directly tied to starting quality players with those first couple picks each year as well as a sprinkling of late round magic. Just get 2-3 picks right a year and we'll win a Superbowl.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
Isn't this discussion fantastic? All the spring time optimism.
We're all worried about this or that. Arm length, 40 times ect. +1/2 of the 1st round are going to bust. All the fans from all the teams sit around a computer/tv/phone/tablet and think they have the next HOF'er and more then 1/2 of those fans will be disappointed in a couple years. We certainly have had our share of those lately.
I'm just hoping for a long term starter with our 1st pick. It'd be great to get the next JJ, Moss, Rhodes or whatever but end of the day as long as we don't screw up the "long term starter" part of the pick we'll be headed in the right direction.
If you look at Zimmers/Spielman's rise and fall it was directly tied to starting quality players with those first couple picks each year as well as a sprinkling of late round magic. Just get 2-3 picks right a year and we'll win a Superbowl.
I mean isn't that what the scouting department and front office are doing though? You evaluate players pros and cons and then you evaluate if/when certain circumstances arise. You have to be prepared to face different situations depending on what happens in front of you since you only have 10 minutes to announce your pick or trade.
Also, a good amount of first round picks do become busts so I do enjoy these types of conversations
If Sauce, Stingley and McDuffie are all gone then I hope for an edge or a trade out. I wouldn't be mad about Davis but he's a way down the list.
As Knucklehead mentioned, our best bet might be Hamilton falling into our laps. Hope either Atlanta or Seattle panics and takes a QB.
If he did not produce big numbers at Georgia, what makes people think he will be dominant in the NFL?
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