It wasn't all coaching and Zimmer wasn't a bad coach. He had his shortcomings and the Wilf's think they can upgrade. I hope they are right. If riding the Cousins train for another year or two turns out no better than the last couple years, the blame will land squarely on the Wilf's themselves for making poor decisions.
Zimmer relied too much on a defense that was no longer there...and his game/time management sucked...
The last two seasons, definitely. Prior to that, I think he was overrated looking back on it. Consistently had poor clock management, outside of the lucky Minneapolis Miracle Game and the Kirk deep throw to Thielen you can make the case that we always looked unprepared while in the playoffs, and he's way too loyal to guys in this business.
Just comes full circle. The questions swirled on Zimmer before coming to Minnesota about why he had been passed over for a head coaching gig for so long. The common answer was that his previous interviews with other franchises came off as harsh/blunt, and too defensive minded. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that in the end, we got the full Zimmer treatment.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
There may not be much player turn over on O, but there will be on D.
Couple that with significant culture and schematic changes? It will be a very different Viking team taking the field in September vs y.ago.
Will it be a better one? Who the hell knows.
The extent of the toxicity in the bldg and mediocrity achieved on the field screams this flush of the Vikings was 1-2 years too late.
Mike was a big part of the problem imo.
3 years too late and the evidence just started to pile up the season after our Philly debacle and yet it took 3 more years. All those internal rumblings, OC/coaching turnover, player discontent, game management were all excused by many on here until after the fact. Now they say if they only knew then what they know now. Many of these same Zimmer supporters bashed some of us who had a much earlier read on Zimmer and his pettiness. Oh well, some posters only want to see or delve into critical thinking on "positive" only of their team and I can understand that because it is really a release from everyday life and entertainment.
The current Kirk debate is very reminiscent of the Zimmer debate the last few years - IMO. The Zimmer drumbeat started slowly 3 years ago with only one or two posters and before the start of last year I think when I did polls it was still about 70% support of Zimmer, then the season began and pretty everyone jumped off the Zimmer longship by midseason. Now Zimmer is the antichrist and by just getting rid of him the ship is righted. The few took the typical crap from the in-crowd (majority or at least most frequent posters) who brushed aside new OC after new OC and the writing that was all on the wall for years.
I guess I just find it somewhat ironic that the crew that blindly (didn't want to see) supported Zimmer almost to the end now think that by just getting rid of him is going to make everything
better  . Thier is a decent overlap of these posters.
As someone who wanted Zimmer gone years ago I do support the hiring of Kevin OC. I wanted an Off minded HC. But I expect some real growing pains well into the season. KOC hasn't even called plays before which reminds me of someone from our recent past . It would have been great to bring in a new fresh OC mind as a HC 2 or 3 years ago when our key starters were mostly under 30 but that is not the case now. This is a roster with a lot of holes and some aging/injury concerns. Once again, I find myself in the minority who does not expect or think that this current team (D,O,ST,C) is playoff material. We are still somewhat early in FA and pre-draft but right now I see mediocracy and wishful thinking being embraced one again. Hope springs eternal and maybe KOC is the next Bill Walsh from day 1.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ purplefaithful said:
There may not be much player turn over on O, but there will be on D.
Couple that with significant culture and schematic changes? It will be a very different Viking team taking the field in September vs y.ago.
Will it be a better one? Who the hell knows.
The extent of the toxicity in the bldg and mediocrity achieved on the field screams this flush of the Vikings was 1-2 years too late.
Mike was a big part of the problem imo.
3 years too late and the evidence just started to pile up the season after our Philly debacle and yet it took 3 more years. All those internal rumblings, OC/coaching turnover, player discontent, game management were all excused by many on here until after the fact. Now they say if they only knew then what they know now. Many of these same Zimmer supporters bashed some of us who had a much earlier read on Zimmer and his pettiness. Oh well, some posters only want to see or delve into critical thinking on "positive" only of their team and I can understand that because it is really a release from everyday life and entertainment.
The current Kirk debate is very reminiscent of the Zimmer debate the last few years - IMO. The Zimmer drumbeat started slowly 3 years ago with only one or two posters and before the start of last year I think when I did polls it was still about 70% support of Zimmer, then the season began and pretty everyone jumped off the Zimmer longship by midseason. Now Zimmer is the antichrist and by just getting rid of him the ship is righted. The few took the typical crap from the in-crowd (majority or at least most frequent posters) who brushed aside new OC after new OC and the writing that was all on the wall for years.
I guess I just find it somewhat ironic that the crew that blindly (didn't want to see) supported Zimmer almost to the end now think that by just getting rid of him is going to make everything
better . Thier is a decent overlap of these posters.
As someone who wanted Zimmer gone years ago I do support the hiring of Kevin OC. I wanted an Off minded HC. But I expect some real growing pains well into the season. KOC hasn't even called plays before which reminds me of someone from our recent past . It would have been great to bring in a new fresh OC mind as a HC 2 or 3 years ago when our key starters were mostly under 30 but that is not the case now. This is a roster with a lot of holes and some aging/injury concerns. Once again, I find myself in the minority who does not expect or think that this current team (D,O,ST,C) is playoff material. We are still somewhat early in FA and pre-draft but right now I see mediocracy and wishful thinking being embraced one again. Hope springs eternal and maybe KOC is the next Bill Walsh from day 1.
You think you're in the minority thinking this team is mediocre? If you took a poll, I think you'd find the only people that think this defense is solid are maybe the Wilf's.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
In your opinion was Zim a terrible head coach?
So far, it’s looking like the roster will be pretty familiar next season. If that’s the case then the only real big change is with the coaching. So, do you believe that Zim was so bad that he was holding this roster back? I honestly don’t know but that seems to be what the Wilfs believe and what they’re selling to the fanbase.
For the sake of the team and this fan’s sanity, I hope they are right and KOC can elevate this squad in ways Zim could not. But there was a time (8 months ago?) where most of the fanbase supported Zimmer. I’m just not sure I buy that he was the sole problem and now that he’s been eradicated everything will be daisies.
Zim was a good candidate and was a pretty good head coach, just not championship caliber.
His inability to adapt was his downfall, including not improving his in game management and not connecting with a newer generation of players.
72-56 was a pretty decent run.
The Tebow signing makes more sense when you realize Urban couldn't name any other player to sign.
My thoughts on Zimmer etc. - I have often compared Zimmer to Childress -- a coach who waited a long time to become HC and was stubbornly insistent on how to do things and failed to properly adjust to the talent on the roster. At this point, I am of the opinion that if someone is passed over a number of times to be HC, there is a good reason for it. It is like the old bachelor, there is a reason they are a bachelor and those traits become more imbedded as you grow older. That is why I would not support hiring Bieniemy going forward.
- Clearly, the Zimmer -- Spielman relationship broke down over the past few years. This is on Zimmer, Spielman and the Wilfs. This is part of the problem of a hands off ownership -- you miss the drama growing within your organization.
- I recall when Zimmer first took the job and the emphasis on hiring coaches who could teach. I largely think that was just an empty promise at this point (hopefully not with the new regime). They developed some players but as time went on, Zimmer seemed to not emphasize developing players and his loyalty to the players connected to Zimmer's best years took clear precedence. I also think over the past couple of years Zimmer wanted Spielman draft picks to fail. I feel like Zimmer was doing things to get Spielman fired and Spielman was trying to get Zimmer fired. Again, the Wilfs should have seen this.
- Zimmer's general disinterest with the offense with the occasional fits about the offense was not worthy of a head coach. I also think he wanted a run first offense because a successful run first offense leads to better defensive statistics.
- I also think Zimmer's approach to player relations is from a (now) bygone era and does not fit with a "participation trophy" generation.
- I think as the team (and especially the defense) spiraled downhill, all the worse traits of Zimmer emerged. You really see someone's true character in times of turmoil.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
My thoughts on Zimmer etc.- I have often compared Zimmer to Childress -- a coach who waited a long time to become HC and was stubbornly insistent on how to do things and failed to properly adjust to the talent on the roster. At this point, I am of the opinion that if someone is passed over a number of times to be HC, there is a good reason for it. It is like the old bachelor, there is a reason they are a bachelor and those traits become more imbedded as you grow older. That is why I would not support hiring Bieniemy going forward.
- Clearly, the Zimmer -- Spielman relationship broke down over the past few years. This is on Zimmer, Spielman and the Wilfs. This is part of the problem of a hands off ownership -- you miss the drama growing within your organization.
- I recall when Zimmer first took the job and the emphasis on hiring coaches who could teach. I largely think that was just an empty promise at this point (hopefully not with the new regime). They developed some players but as time went on, Zimmer seemed to not emphasize developing players and his loyalty to the players connected to Zimmer's best years took clear precedence. I also think over the past couple of years Zimmer wanted Spielman draft picks to fail. I feel like Zimmer was doing things to get Spielman fired and Spielman was trying to get Zimmer fired. Again, the Wilfs should have seen this.
- Zimmer's general disinterest with the offense with the occasional fits about the offense was not worthy of a head coach. I also think he wanted a run first offense because a successful run first offense leads to better defensive statistics.
- I also think Zimmer's approach to player relations is from a (now) bygone era and does not fit with a "participation trophy" generation.
- I think as the team (and especially the defense) spiraled downhill, all the worse traits of Zimmer emerged. You really see someone's true character in times of turmoil.
Could not agree more and why I was down on him for the last few years. The evidence of all the above was pretty obvious.
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