Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
@ Hawkvike25 said  "Wetlander" said:
The thing is... I don't see where Hunter fits in a 3-4 defense. He isn't playing with his hand in the dirt and it's no guarantee he'll be an elite pass rusher at OLB. Given his contract antics the past two years and the injuries, now might be the perfect time to get some valuable draft capital and free up some money while we acquire players who are a better fit for our new defensive scheme.
This is what, the third straight year we have had offseason struggles with Danielle and his contract? News that his agent is being unreasonable and his upset about losing Dre. Trade him then as the dude does not wanna be in Minnesota and he’s already benefitted enough the last two years without hardly playing. Get a great return, draft one of these DE’s early and let’s move on
These are both excellent points. Add to that a neck injury serious enough to require surgery and Hunter's desire to break the bank, it's time to move on.
Giants and Jets both need edge rushers, but they can target the draft for that. Miami might be a landing spot. Can we finagle the #26 pick from them? Maybe.
The ace in the hole?
![[Image: p735h9x35abe.jpeg]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/ur/p735h9x35abe.jpeg)
Very similar athlete at $871,000 vs the cap.
Don't forget about Wonnum too... he played as a standup rusher in college and had success. He might actually be a better fit as a pass rusher at OLB than he was at DE in a 4-3.
Wonnum at the Jack works. He's a bit out of water with his hand in the dirt. Jones, Robinson, Willekes at 5i.
Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
This is what, the third straight year we have had offseason struggles with Danielle and his contract? News that his agent is being unreasonable and his upset about losing Dre. Trade him then as the dude does not wanna be in Minnesota and he’s already benefitted enough the last two years without hardly playing. Get a great return, draft one of these DE’s early and let’s move on
But it's the exact same with your boy Cousins, and we'll be dealing with his contract shit again next offseason with no long term solution in play. Hard to believe that we continue to let Cousins bend us over a barrel with his contract at the expense of losing guys like Hunter, who we can't find the money to pay. Hunter is 27, had more sacks before the age of 25 then anybody in NFL history, had 6 sacks in seven games last season before tearing his pec. He's a freak and an elite pass rusher. The injuries the last two seasons have been unfortunate weird injuries. I absolutely do not think he's "injury prone" because he's been fine the 5 years prior. Huge mistake trading Hunter so they could pay and extend Kirk for one more season
What are you talking about? First off, Cousins took a deal that cut his cap by about $14 million to give the team more cash to find some players. Also, he has a reasonable cap next year. They won’t need to mess with his for two years now. He’s making the 6th or 7th highest QB pay, which is for once commensurate with his overall value.
You have to let go of your obsession. His contract is team friendly and reasonable. His play has been excellent. He’s done what he can do. Now it’s on guys like Hunter to work with the team. Just like he can’t play defense, he can’t make Hunter sign a new cap freeing contract.
@TomPelissero
The #Vikingsare signing Pro Bowl QB Kirk Cousins to a one-year, $35 million fully guaranteed extension that puts him under contract through 2023, per sources.
Cousins gets a raise to $40 million in 2022, $55 million payable by next March and a no-trade clause.
Quote: @Norse said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
This is what, the third straight year we have had offseason struggles with Danielle and his contract? News that his agent is being unreasonable and his upset about losing Dre. Trade him then as the dude does not wanna be in Minnesota and he’s already benefitted enough the last two years without hardly playing. Get a great return, draft one of these DE’s early and let’s move on
But it's the exact same with your boy Cousins, and we'll be dealing with his contract shit again next offseason with no long term solution in play. Hard to believe that we continue to let Cousins bend us over a barrel with his contract at the expense of losing guys like Hunter, who we can't find the money to pay. Hunter is 27, had more sacks before the age of 25 then anybody in NFL history, had 6 sacks in seven games last season before tearing his pec. He's a freak and an elite pass rusher. The injuries the last two seasons have been unfortunate weird injuries. I absolutely do not think he's "injury prone" because he's been fine the 5 years prior. Huge mistake trading Hunter so they could pay and extend Kirk for one more season
What are you talking about? First off, Cousins took a deal that cut his cap by about $14 million to give the team more cash to find some players. Also, he has a reasonable cap next year. They won’t need to mess with his for two years now. He’s making the 6th or 7th highest QB pay, which is for once commensurate with his overall value.
You have to let go of your obsession. His contract is team friendly and reasonable. His play has been excellent. He’s done what he can do. Now it’s on guys like Hunter to work with the team. Just like he can’t play defense, he can’t make Hunter sign a new cap freeing contract.
@TomPelissero
The #Vikingsare signing Pro Bowl QB Kirk Cousins to a one-year, $35 million fully guaranteed extension that puts him under contract through 2023, per sources.
Cousins gets a raise to $40 million in 2022, $55 million payable by next March and a no-trade clause.
Every time Cousins "helps" the team, he gets a nice raise no?
Hunter helped the team last year and did not receive any raise.
He got a 5.6M roster bonus spread over 4 years (as he allowed them to add two void year something Cousins has not done until this current extension).
The two sides agreed to the 18M roster bonus by reducing his 2022 salary from $12.125M to $1.4M and his 2023 salary was reduced by another $7M.
The took some of his already scheduled 2023 salary and most of his 2022 salary and put it into this 18M roster bonus.
Hunter wanted a new deal but the team was hesitant so they settled on NOT giving him any new money and this decision on the 18M roster bonus.
Some could argue Cousins deserved a raise. That is fair. I never would have given him the first extension as the results did not warrant it.
I think he is good but his teams just cannot make the playoffs. He is the unluckiest, richest QB ever. Apparently.
It really would not have mattered if it was another QB the Vikings paid 84M to in 2018 either.
The strategy of paying a QB big bucks has failed miserably and cost two good football men their jobs.
The actual facts are every time Cousins "helped" the team he got a significant raise whereas when Hunter helped them he did NOT!
And that makes sense because Cousins played while Hunter was hurt.
If the team does not like the trade offers they are getting (and seeing the Jets sign Jacob Martin eliminates them) then they'll have to spread some of that roster bonus over the next 4 years.
The problem with that though is that it creates more dead money if he is moved next year and less cap savings. They'll have more dead money than cap savings if they spread some of is roster bonus.
Right now, if they left his roster bonus as is, if he is moved in 2023, they would eat 3.36M in dead money and save 5.26M with a pre-June 1 designation.
If they took 8M of his roster bonus and spread it out over 4 years, those numbers change to 11.36M in dead money and no savings at all.
I think there’s 2 key questions someone should have with
Hunter. How good of a fit is he in a 3-4. What are the odds of him coming back from a
Pec tear and being 100% in 2022? For
some reason, I have it in my memory that most of the Vikings that had Pec tears
had pretty dramatic decreases in performance, but I think they were more in the
trenches where you need raw strength rather than on the edge where you can be
speed based.
Regarding his contract, I’d assume we could just convert his
roster to signing bonus without his permission and knock his cap hit down to
$17M for 2022 and 2023. I’d guess they’re
still valuing him less than that given the above issues or maybe they need even
more space.
First really large test for Kwesi. If he moves Hunter for below value...an exceptionally bad sign for the future.
Quote: @JustinTime18™ said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
This is what, the third straight year we have had offseason struggles with Danielle and his contract? News that his agent is being unreasonable and his upset about losing Dre. Trade him then as the dude does not wanna be in Minnesota and he’s already benefitted enough the last two years without hardly playing. Get a great return, draft one of these DE’s early and let’s move on
But it's the exact same with your boy Cousins, and we'll be dealing with his contract shit again next offseason with no long term solution in play. Hard to believe that we continue to let Cousins bend us over a barrel with his contract at the expense of losing guys like Hunter, who we can't find the money to pay. Hunter is 27, had more sacks before the age of 25 then anybody in NFL history, had 6 sacks in seven games last season before tearing his pec. He's a freak and an elite pass rusher. The injuries the last two seasons have been unfortunate weird injuries. I absolutely do not think he's "injury prone" because he's been fine the 5 years prior. Huge mistake trading Hunter so they could pay and extend Kirk for one more season
You're not obsessed? This thread is about Hunter. First thing you bring up is Cousins.
Only as it relates to the team choosing to continue re-signing Cousins to big money on short term extensions at the expense of losing or having to move other players such as Hunter. I'm not in the camp that believes thats in the best interest of the team and will never be in that camp. Hunter is still only 27 and elite when healthy. I'd rather gamble on Hunter's health and pay him over ever believing Cousins will be elite and continuing to pay him.
Send him to KC or Tenn for their 1st round pick and get over it.
He doesn't want to be here, the window on that group has closed. The Cousins signing was a debacle and will continue to be.
Sign Tretter with Adam and Harrison's money.
Take a 1st and cap room (resign Barr). Draft DE - CB - DT in BPA in the first 55 picks (Davis - Elam - Mafe)
Davis-Phillips-Tomlinson
Barr-Kendricks-Hicks-Mafe
Elam-Smith-Bynum-Dantzler
Can this defense be middle of the road? Can the 16th best defense in the league be enough for an offense loaded with weapons and a real anchor at Center, two studs at tackle?
Quote: @Rigby said:
First really large test for Kwesi. If he moves Hunter for below value...an exceptionally bad sign for the future.
I think the first was the Kirk decision, but this is the second big decision for our new GM.
I also agree with Maroon in that we may have missed the timing on getting good value on trading Hunter. If Hunter is traded I think it will be at surprising low return for a guy who is only 27.
A Hunter trade with low return would be a very inconsistent start for Kwesi - IMO.
You commit to Kirk Cousins at top dollar (delayed the rip of the band aide for a year or two) which indicates that you think you can get a few pieces and you are SB contenders but then you let Hunter go for low return. Hunter is only 27 and you would think he would be a key part for a contending team.
Again, before we knew any of these decisions a few weeks ago I really advocated for a rebuild - not commit to Kirk/trade - and use that money to shore up a few contracts on some "youngish" keepers and Hunter would have been one of those. That said, I would not have just acquiesced to whatever terms Hunter wanted but we would certainly have the luxury of a lot of Cap space to play with.
Quote: @Skodin said:
Send him to KC or Tenn for their 1st round pick and get over it.
He doesn't want to be here, the window on that group has closed. The Cousins signing was a debacle and will continue to be.
Sign Tretter with Adam and Harrison's money.
Take a 1st and cap room (resign Barr). Draft DE - CB - DT in BPA in the first 55 picks (Davis - Elam - Mafe)
Davis-Phillips-Tomlinson
Barr-Kendricks-Hicks-Mafe
Elam-Smith-Bynum-Dantzler
Can this defense be middle of the road? Can the 16th best defense in the league be enough for an offense loaded with weapons and a real anchor at Center, two studs at tackle?
i tend to agree, with the exception of Barr, to many unknowns with that knee IMO. Barr has only played 2 complete seasons in his 8 years in the league, and neither of those were in the last 4 years, the same arguments for trading off Hunter apply to Barr IMO.
Quote: @Rigby said:
First really large test for Kwesi. If he moves Hunter for below value...an exceptionally bad sign for the future.
Or, is it indicative of an incredibly strong edge draft class?
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