Quote: @AGRforever said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I’ll take it Geoff. Whats the odds he plays out ‘22 vs gets extended.
Its kind of a loaded question. I would say 20% chance he gets extended prior to free agency. Once they get closer to training camp I could see those odds going up since some of the salary cap and FA tensions will be over with. The FO will also have a better idea how Kirk fits into the overall cap picture.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
Rip the damn band-aid off already. New GM, Coaches and players. Get the cap under control. Bring in guys who fit your scheme. Start fresh. Think 3-6 years down the road not 1-3 years of more mediocrity. Keep Adam cuz he is a home town hero. Unless he wants to chase a ring.
Obviously I agree.
Does anyone think if we resigned Hunter, Theilan, extend Kirk and a few FA's/draft hits we are a deep playoff caliber team? I know some do but I don't. We are more than a few good players away. Our core built by the old regime is all on the downside and we have a ton of holes to fill all across the defense and especially if we are going 3-4. I expect at least 6 new starters on defense alone this year and probably around 2 on Offense.
Yeah, I do. I don't believe in this idea that we're "more than a few good players away." But I don't believe that as much because I overrate the Vikings roster; I believe that because I think, with the exception of maybe 6 or 7 teams, EVERYONE is only a few players away. In other words, I think a lot of fans overrate what it takes to win a championship.
It's not the 70s or 80s where you had dynasties who were always on top and everyone else sucked. In today's NFL, 7-9 teams (Tampa) and 4-12 teams (Cinci) go to the Super Bowl the following year.
I believe that teams who win championships are the teams who get hot and healthy at the end of the year. Take a look at the starting offensive lines in the 49ers/Chiefs Super Bowl. They were crap. Low round draft picks and UDFAs scattered in with a couple of solid players. I think the PERCEPTION is that you need stars at every position, but the reality is that league average players litter ALL rosters.
Yea and I think that is the reason we also disagree on Kirk.
I notice when folks post about a rebuild (me/group 2) you indicate that it would be best to move on from Kirk as well, correct?? (don't want to put words in your mouth)
That is the crux around the new regime, current roster and Kirk. Group 1 thinks we have enough of a core to build off of and Group 2 does not.
We disagree but we have the same goal in mind 
I think there's a tipping point. I think you could maybe lose Dalvin, maybe one of the DTs. But when you start including Hunter and Kendricks, et al, still very young and very good players, then yeah, the outlook isn't so hot. At that point, I can see an argument for including Cousins too.
So it's not as simple as group one and two. There's some gray.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
Rip the damn band-aid off already. New GM, Coaches and players. Get the cap under control. Bring in guys who fit your scheme. Start fresh. Think 3-6 years down the road not 1-3 years of more mediocrity. Keep Adam cuz he is a home town hero. Unless he wants to chase a ring.
Obviously I agree.
Does anyone think if we resigned Hunter, Theilan, extend Kirk and a few FA's/draft hits we are a deep playoff caliber team? I know some do but I don't. We are more than a few good players away. Our core built by the old regime is all on the downside and we have a ton of holes to fill all across the defense and especially if we are going 3-4. I expect at least 6 new starters on defense alone this year and probably around 2 on Offense.
Yeah, I do. I don't believe in this idea that we're "more than a few good players away." But I don't believe that as much because I overrate the Vikings roster; I believe that because I think, with the exception of maybe 6 or 7 teams, EVERYONE is only a few players away. In other words, I think a lot of fans overrate what it takes to win a championship.
It's not the 70s or 80s where you had dynasties who were always on top and everyone else sucked. In today's NFL, 7-9 teams (Tampa) and 4-12 teams (Cinci) go to the Super Bowl the following year.
I believe that teams who win championships are the teams who get hot and healthy at the end of the year. Take a look at the starting offensive lines in the 49ers/Chiefs Super Bowl. They were crap. Low round draft picks and UDFAs scattered in with a couple of solid players. I think the PERCEPTION is that you need stars at every position, but the reality is that league average players litter ALL rosters.
Yea and I think that is the reason we also disagree on Kirk.
I notice when folks post about a rebuild (me/group 2) you indicate that it would be best to move on from Kirk as well, correct?? (don't want to put words in your mouth)
That is the crux around the new regime, current roster and Kirk. Group 1 thinks we have enough of a core to build off of and Group 2 does not.
We disagree but we have the same goal in mind
I think there's a tipping point. I think you could maybe lose Dalvin, maybe one of the DTs. But when you start including Hunter and Kendricks, et al, still very young and very good players, then yeah, the outlook isn't so hot. At that point, I can see an argument for including Cousins too.
So it's not as simple as group one and two. There's some gray.
![[Image: dutatk7eloa7.jpeg]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/y8/dutatk7eloa7.jpeg)
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
Rip the damn band-aid off already. New GM, Coaches and players. Get the cap under control. Bring in guys who fit your scheme. Start fresh. Think 3-6 years down the road not 1-3 years of more mediocrity. Keep Adam cuz he is a home town hero. Unless he wants to chase a ring.
Obviously I agree.
Does anyone think if we resigned Hunter, Theilan, extend Kirk and a few FA's/draft hits we are a deep playoff caliber team? I know some do but I don't. We are more than a few good players away. Our core built by the old regime is all on the downside and we have a ton of holes to fill all across the defense and especially if we are going 3-4. I expect at least 6 new starters on defense alone this year and probably around 2 on Offense.
Yeah, I do. I don't believe in this idea that we're "more than a few good players away." But I don't believe that as much because I overrate the Vikings roster; I believe that because I think, with the exception of maybe 6 or 7 teams, EVERYONE is only a few players away. In other words, I think a lot of fans overrate what it takes to win a championship.
It's not the 70s or 80s where you had dynasties who were always on top and everyone else sucked. In today's NFL, 7-9 teams (Tampa) and 4-12 teams (Cinci) go to the Super Bowl the following year.
I believe that teams who win championships are the teams who get hot and healthy at the end of the year. Take a look at the starting offensive lines in the 49ers/Chiefs Super Bowl. They were crap. Low round draft picks and UDFAs scattered in with a couple of solid players. I think the PERCEPTION is that you need stars at every position, but the reality is that league average players litter ALL rosters.
Outside of having Tom Brady, there is no recipe for winning a title. There are some things that I do know with them being you cannot have the level of injuries the Vikes had the last two years. You cannot have the OL the Vikes have had the last two years. You cannot have the quality of defense the Vikes had the last two years. Lastly, officially put me on the list of folks who say you cannot have a high priced RB on your team and be super successful.
Another team won the Super Bowl this year with their leading rusher making less than $2.5MM per year. That makes 13 straight. Sounds like Kirk isn't going anywhere so trade Dalvin, negotiate for that team to take on the dead cap, and use those savings to improve the defense or OL. Draft a running back mid-round this year.
If the Vikings trade a top 5 (3?) RB in Dalvin and then maybe also cut Thielen to allow them to pay Kirk Cousins a bunch of money my head is going to explode. As will a lot of the fanbase’s. The narrative around Kirk is already so polarizing, I’d be very surprised if the new gang throws gas on the fire by trading Dalvin.
That’s 2 prominent posters potentially going full “Scanners” on us now, stop the madness Kwesi …!  B)
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
Rip the damn band-aid off already. New GM, Coaches and players. Get the cap under control. Bring in guys who fit your scheme. Start fresh. Think 3-6 years down the road not 1-3 years of more mediocrity. Keep Adam cuz he is a home town hero. Unless he wants to chase a ring.
Obviously I agree.
Does anyone think if we resigned Hunter, Theilan, extend Kirk and a few FA's/draft hits we are a deep playoff caliber team? I know some do but I don't. We are more than a few good players away. Our core built by the old regime is all on the downside and we have a ton of holes to fill all across the defense and especially if we are going 3-4. I expect at least 6 new starters on defense alone this year and probably around 2 on Offense.
Yeah, I do. I don't believe in this idea that we're "more than a few good players away." But I don't believe that as much because I overrate the Vikings roster; I believe that because I think, with the exception of maybe 6 or 7 teams, EVERYONE is only a few players away. In other words, I think a lot of fans overrate what it takes to win a championship.
It's not the 70s or 80s where you had dynasties who were always on top and everyone else sucked. In today's NFL, 7-9 teams (Tampa) and 4-12 teams (Cinci) go to the Super Bowl the following year.
I believe that teams who win championships are the teams who get hot and healthy at the end of the year. Take a look at the starting offensive lines in the 49ers/Chiefs Super Bowl. They were crap. Low round draft picks and UDFAs scattered in with a couple of solid players. I think the PERCEPTION is that you need stars at every position, but the reality is that league average players litter ALL rosters.
Outside of having Tom Brady, there is no recipe for winning a title. There are some things that I do know with them being you cannot have the level of injuries the Vikes had the last two years. You cannot have the OL the Vikes have had the last two years. You cannot have the quality of defense the Vikes had the last two years. Lastly, officially put me on the list of folks who say you cannot have a high priced RB on your team and be super successful.
Another team won the Super Bowl this year with their leading rusher making less than $2.5MM per year. That makes 13 straight. Sounds like Kirk isn't going anywhere so trade Dalvin, negotiate for that team to take on the dead cap, and use those savings to improve the defense or OL. Draft a running back mid-round this year.
If the Vikings trade a top 5 (3?) RB in Dalvin and then maybe also cut Thielen to allow them to pay Kirk Cousins a bunch of money my head is going to explode. As will a lot of the fanbase’s. The narrative around Kirk is already so polarizing, I’d be very surprised if the new gang throws gas on the fire by trading Dalvin.
Well if Kirk doesn't want to negotiate something that also benefits the Vikings then why not? It's one more year of him and you're still improving other areas for the future. All options need to be considered and I'm now in the boat that it includes Dalvin too.
Hold onto your hats, the next week or two is going to be a bumpy ride. My predictions based upon absolutely nothing:
- Cousins -- traded
- Thielen -- restructured
- Cook -- nothing
- Pierce -- traded or cut
- Kendricks -- traded or restructured
- Hunter -- traded
- Smith -- restructured
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
Rip the damn band-aid off already. New GM, Coaches and players. Get the cap under control. Bring in guys who fit your scheme. Start fresh. Think 3-6 years down the road not 1-3 years of more mediocrity. Keep Adam cuz he is a home town hero. Unless he wants to chase a ring.
Obviously I agree.
Does anyone think if we resigned Hunter, Theilan, extend Kirk and a few FA's/draft hits we are a deep playoff caliber team? I know some do but I don't. We are more than a few good players away. Our core built by the old regime is all on the downside and we have a ton of holes to fill all across the defense and especially if we are going 3-4. I expect at least 6 new starters on defense alone this year and probably around 2 on Offense.
Yeah, I do. I don't believe in this idea that we're "more than a few good players away." But I don't believe that as much because I overrate the Vikings roster; I believe that because I think, with the exception of maybe 6 or 7 teams, EVERYONE is only a few players away. In other words, I think a lot of fans overrate what it takes to win a championship.
It's not the 70s or 80s where you had dynasties who were always on top and everyone else sucked. In today's NFL, 7-9 teams (Tampa) and 4-12 teams (Cinci) go to the Super Bowl the following year.
I believe that teams who win championships are the teams who get hot and healthy at the end of the year. Take a look at the starting offensive lines in the 49ers/Chiefs Super Bowl. They were crap. Low round draft picks and UDFAs scattered in with a couple of solid players. I think the PERCEPTION is that you need stars at every position, but the reality is that league average players litter ALL rosters.
Outside of having Tom Brady, there is no recipe for winning a title. There are some things that I do know with them being you cannot have the level of injuries the Vikes had the last two years. You cannot have the OL the Vikes have had the last two years. You cannot have the quality of defense the Vikes had the last two years. Lastly, officially put me on the list of folks who say you cannot have a high priced RB on your team and be super successful.
Another team won the Super Bowl this year with their leading rusher making less than $2.5MM per year. That makes 13 straight. Sounds like Kirk isn't going anywhere so trade Dalvin, negotiate for that team to take on the dead cap, and use those savings to improve the defense or OL. Draft a running back mid-round this year.
If the Vikings trade a top 5 (3?) RB in Dalvin and then maybe also cut Thielen to allow them to pay Kirk Cousins a bunch of money my head is going to explode. As will a lot of the fanbase’s. The narrative around Kirk is already so polarizing, I’d be very surprised if the new gang throws gas on the fire by trading Dalvin.
Dalvin probably ranks higher among backs than Cousins does among QBs, but finding a RB who can give us something close to Dalvin is much easier than finding a QB who can give us something close to what Kirk does.
I think that is the gist of it.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
Rip the damn band-aid off already. New GM, Coaches and players. Get the cap under control. Bring in guys who fit your scheme. Start fresh. Think 3-6 years down the road not 1-3 years of more mediocrity. Keep Adam cuz he is a home town hero. Unless he wants to chase a ring.
Obviously I agree.
Does anyone think if we resigned Hunter, Theilan, extend Kirk and a few FA's/draft hits we are a deep playoff caliber team? I know some do but I don't. We are more than a few good players away. Our core built by the old regime is all on the downside and we have a ton of holes to fill all across the defense and especially if we are going 3-4. I expect at least 6 new starters on defense alone this year and probably around 2 on Offense.
Yeah, I do. I don't believe in this idea that we're "more than a few good players away." But I don't believe that as much because I overrate the Vikings roster; I believe that because I think, with the exception of maybe 6 or 7 teams, EVERYONE is only a few players away. In other words, I think a lot of fans overrate what it takes to win a championship.
It's not the 70s or 80s where you had dynasties who were always on top and everyone else sucked. In today's NFL, 7-9 teams (Tampa) and 4-12 teams (Cinci) go to the Super Bowl the following year.
I believe that teams who win championships are the teams who get hot and healthy at the end of the year. Take a look at the starting offensive lines in the 49ers/Chiefs Super Bowl. They were crap. Low round draft picks and UDFAs scattered in with a couple of solid players. I think the PERCEPTION is that you need stars at every position, but the reality is that league average players litter ALL rosters.
Yea and I think that is the reason we also disagree on Kirk.
I notice when folks post about a rebuild (me/group 2) you indicate that it would be best to move on from Kirk as well, correct?? (don't want to put words in your mouth)
That is the crux around the new regime, current roster and Kirk. Group 1 thinks we have enough of a core to build off of and Group 2 does not.
We disagree but we have the same goal in mind
I think there's a tipping point. I think you could maybe lose Dalvin, maybe one of the DTs. But when you start including Hunter and Kendricks, et al, still very young and very good players, then yeah, the outlook isn't so hot. At that point, I can see an argument for including Cousins too.
So it's not as simple as group one and two. There's some gray.
i like to refer to that grey as "group 3"
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