Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Sure, lets gut the team...
Yeah, no. Bring back as many as you can and let's see what the new coaching staff can do.
But I think there's is a tipping point where if you're going to move a certain amount of your stars--say Pierce, Kendricks, Thielen--you're likely not going to be competitive in 22 and at that point, it sort of makes sense to move Cousins as well.
Agree, if we're going to dump a bunch of older talent, there's no real reason to keep an older QB around.
Very good point here. Maybe that's what the new regime is analyzing? Kirk and Thielen are the same to me in the sense that if you don't agree to lessen your cap hit to help the team out then we are done. I want to work with Danielle to keep him. The rest? It's a business and do what's best for the team moving forward.
I think the new regime is looking at all options including a reset of a team created by the old guard.
I also don't think signing Theilan, Hunter and extending Kirk puts anywhere on the path to a strong playoff team - we are more than a few players away and that is the reason I would like to trade Kirk.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Sure, lets gut the team...
Yeah, no. Bring back as many as you can and let's see what the new coaching staff can do.
But I think there's is a tipping point where if you're going to move a certain amount of your stars--say Pierce, Kendricks, Thielen--you're likely not going to be competitive in 22 and at that point, it sort of makes sense to move Cousins as well.
Agree, if we're going to dump a bunch of older talent, there's no real reason to keep an older QB around.
Very good point here. Maybe that's what the new regime is analyzing? Kirk and Thielen are the same to me in the sense that if you don't agree to lessen your cap hit to help the team out then we are done. I want to work with Danielle to keep him. The rest? It's a business and do what's best for the team moving forward.
I think the new regime is looking at all options including a reset of a team created by the old guard.
I also don't think signing Theilan, Hunter and extending Kirk puts anywhere on the path to a strong playoff team - we are more than a few players away and that is the reason I would like to trade Kirk.
My guess is the Wilf's want to roll with Kirk and the new GM and head coach presented a plausible case for doing just that. But now they are faced with the reality of that decision with regard to cap issues. They knew the issues going in so it will be interesting to see what their solution is. It better be creative enough to have at least an average defense, otherwise we are looking at the same old shat. Rodgers gifted 5 or 6 wins, based on the division he plays in, and the Vikings scrambling for the scraps from longshanks table!
SOS, new regime or a new day dawning? We shall see.
So far I have been impressed with the new GM and HC. But the fact GB has Rodgers and Minnesota has Cousins isn't much of a comfort to me.
Cook will be here, Cousins will likely be here. Thielen is legitimately up in the air and Pierece likely won't be back. So I don't think this is completely off-base. But I think high-level if you ask around the league the Vikings are very open-minded to anything.
Rip the damn band-aid off already. New GM, Coaches and players. Get the cap under control. Bring in guys who fit your scheme. Start fresh. Think 3-6 years down the road not 1-3 years of more mediocrity. Keep Adam cuz he is a home town hero. Unless he wants to chase a ring.
Leber this morning was saying keep Cousins, but be ready to unload guys like AT, Cook, and others that are high dollars but only performing marginally better than lower cost alternatives. when talking about Cook he noted that the Rams just won a SB with pedestrian RBs, and pointed out the immediate impact rookie RBs can have.
we have talked in the past about the RB value vs other positions where you get better in your mid to late 20s where the RB starts to fall off even though they are just hitting their peak contract years. I like what Cook brings to the table, but if we could get a 3rd round pick for him, use that third rounder to draft his replacement and save ourselves some cap space over the next few years without a huge drop off in performance... hard to pass that up when they are strapped for cash, and looking at a rebuild (regardless of what is said publicly) getting younger at a position with such a short shelf life seems like a good idea.
This is a tough rebuild, mostly because Cousins is hard to
judge. I think if you are a casual
observer, or maybe you’re just looking at him in someone else’s system, Cousins
looks perfectly fine and very productive, but it seems like half the people
that get a closer look don’t like what they see and the other half are fine
with him. I think you have to figure out
what to do with him and then move on from there, but it’s tough for people that
haven’t worked with him to get a accurate perception enough that they would
want to hitch their entire Vikings coaching career on his ability.
I think for me, if I was a young offensive guru HC, I would
focus on the defense as an area to trim fat from, but mostly keep the offense
intact, and let Cousins play out 2022, and then figure out the long term plan at
that point. I think the worst case
situation is one where you cut Thielen and Cook for cap relief, and then you
have questions about whether Cousins had enough of a supporting cast and you
don’t have enough information to make a great decision. Our offense with a bare bones defense should
be .500 caliber, which is what we’ve seen the last two years after injuries have
removed all our expensive players from our defense.
For me, as the long term Vikings fan who thinks Cousins is
ok but overrated and overpaid, I’d be looking for a trade this offseason and if
something good shows up, I’d jump on it, and failing that I’d play out 2022 and
see if he really shines under O’Connell.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
Leber this morning was saying keep Cousins, but be ready to unload guys like AT, Cook, and others that are high dollars but only performing marginally better than lower cost alternatives. when talking about Cook he noted that the Rams just won a SB with pedestrian RBs, and pointed out the immediate impact rookie RBs can have.
we have talked in the past about the RB value vs other positions where you get better in your mid to late 20s where the RB starts to fall off even though they are just hitting their peak contract years. I like what Cook brings to the table, but if we could get a 3rd round pick for him, use that third rounder to draft his replacement and save ourselves some cap space over the next few years without a huge drop off in performance... hard to pass that up when they are strapped for cash, and looking at a rebuild (regardless of what is said publicly) getting younger at a position with such a short shelf life seems like a good idea.
Leber's point isn't wrong. But I wouldn't call Cam Akers or Darrell Henderson a paid of "middling RBs". Akers when healthy is up there on the hierarchy. But the great debate on RBs is really a runaway train at this point. Although it is a passing league, that doesn't mean RBs are all replaceable. The days of the top 15 RBs in the league getting big money are gone, but the top 5 still deserve contracts. Dalvin fits into that category without a doubt.
Even when injured Dalvin has ROI on a $10-15M cap number. There are just too many things he can do as a singular player that others can't. His broken tackle rate is one of the best all time.
The counter-argument will be that, well if you spent a draft pick, how much worse would you be? Well I would put out there that only Jonathan Taylor has been better than Dalvin since he was initially drafted into the league. There is definitely a mid-tier to be had D'Andre Swift, Akers, etc. but those players are still playing on $2-3M cap numbers. So you go from a top 3 NFL RB to a top 12 for $7M. It seems like a lot on paper but that is a nominal amount you can work around for elite production.
If the only 2 options are blow it up or bring everyone back, then I far prefer the former to the latter.
But thankfully there's a lot of middle ground so Dalvin will be back. He's a team leader, still productive, and his contract and the position he plays prevent the Vikings from getting any value in a trade. Thielen I'm not sure about. It's hard to imagine him not being a Viking but his contract is very high. Hopefully he's open to a paycut. If not, that's a major bummer.
Kirk... I've said ad nauseum that I'm over him for the past couple of seasons but we'll see what happens.
Kendricks is an awesome player so I think he'll be back. Player trades don't happen too often in the NFL so I think maybe 1 or at most 2 of these guys get dealt. The rest will be cap logistics and maybe some cuts.
Hopefully they study it a little better than Atlanta did last year. No reset for them, but an Albatross of Matt Ryan contract that is not going to get better, along with some others.
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