Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ Zanary said:
Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.
The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF). As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.
We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me. That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.
I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk.
And it it doesn't, you're still getting a QB who's pretty much guaranteed to give you 4,000 yards and 30 TDs every year.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ Zanary said:
Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.
The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF). As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.
We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me. That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.
I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk.
I just don't know what's less of a risk, honestly:
Developing any young QB is, statistically, more likely to fail than not...which is why there are so few real blue-chip QBs.
Trading/acquiring other veterans...well, that's "safer", but how reliable are they in terms of playing time, productivity, and are they good in your locker room?
"Hero Shot" deals for big-splash QBs? Umm...Watson's got to be some degree of a creep who went 4-12 most recently, Murray kind of wilts as games mean more, Wilson has shown to be vulnerable behind a bad line, so...who?
I always want a promising kid on the roster, and I'd love to see a draft pick go from practice squad to hoisting a Lombardi for us...but, right now, we have a group that can put up over 30 passing TDs and over 4200 air yards in s**t conditions...proven, repeatedly.
I definitely think it's a lesser risk to give them some time in a supportive system.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ Zanary said:
Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.
The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF). As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.
We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me. That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.
I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk.
I just don't know what's less of a risk, honestly:
Developing any young QB is, statistically, more likely to fail than not...which is why there are so few real blue-chip QBs.
Trading/acquiring other veterans...well, that's "safer", but how reliable are they in terms of playing time, productivity, and are they good in your locker room?
"Hero Shot" deals for big-splash QBs? Umm...Watson's got to be some degree of a creep who went 4-12 most recently, Murray kind of wilts as games mean more, Wilson has shown to be vulnerable behind a bad line, so...who?
I always want a promising kid on the roster, and I'd love to see a draft pick go from practice squad to hoisting a Lombardi for us...but, right now, we have a group that can put up over 30 passing TDs and over 4200 air yards in s**t conditions...proven, repeatedly.
I definitely think it's a lesser risk to give them some time in a supportive system.
But, the key to all this is being able to afford the necessary fixes to make a run with whatever KC gives us, which may or may not be enough at the price that hes been paying at. Based on his career to date, it likely won't be. Its not just his contract, the team has others that fall far shorter of meeting salary expectations than KC does, but he is the highest priced guy with the single most influence on a games results so as such he will be the most scrutinized and right or wrong will typically be held the most accountable for the teams failures.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
@ Vikergirl said:
He is 33, so what 3 or 4 more years? Are they going to a five year deal with voidable years and restructure money to bonuses to help? I don't know, we'll see I guess. But I still want them developing a qb of the future.
Next year is the draft pool to dip a toe into. There's 4-5 prospects worth a shot. Plus another handful of guys who could jump up a tier.
Patience required.
I'd feel much better drafting a guy in '23, knowing Cousins is our QB for a few more years, and knowing we can give the kid some time to develop. At least a year. If he turns out, you can always trade Cousins then.
After the top two, I'm really starting to like Levis, Van Dyke, and Richardson on the next tier. Hopefully by the end on 2022, they are all on par. Levis is the most intriguing to me. Cannon arm, size, can run, prototypical size. By next fall, he might be the #2 guy.
Wow, just watched Levis. I haven't watched much of the the 21 class, but this is the best looking QB I've seen all year. Got a quick, 3/4-arm release. Like Mahomes, he can throw like a shortstop when he needs to. Has Brady-like composure. Runs like Elway. I'm smitten. Do I really have to wait a year? Wow.
His #1 WR Wan’Dale Robinson looks pretty impressive as well.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ Zanary said:
Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.
The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF). As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.
We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me. That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.
I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk.
And it it doesn't, you're still getting a QB who's pretty much guaranteed to give you 4,000 yards and 30 TDs every year.
4,000 yds, 30 TDs, and how many super bowls? I don’t care if our QB throws 7 INTs all year or 27… I just want the Vikings to win a Super Bowl while I’m still around.
I do wonder if the pro-Kirk militia truly believes we’ll win a SB during his next contract, or if we’re just glad to not be the Lions.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
@ Vikergirl said:
He is 33, so what 3 or 4 more years? Are they going to a five year deal with voidable years and restructure money to bonuses to help? I don't know, we'll see I guess. But I still want them developing a qb of the future.
Next year is the draft pool to dip a toe into. There's 4-5 prospects worth a shot. Plus another handful of guys who could jump up a tier.
Patience required.
I'd feel much better drafting a guy in '23, knowing Cousins is our QB for a few more years, and knowing we can give the kid some time to develop. At least a year. If he turns out, you can always trade Cousins then.
After the top two, I'm really starting to like Levis, Van Dyke, and Richardson on the next tier. Hopefully by the end on 2022, they are all on par. Levis is the most intriguing to me. Cannon arm, size, can run, prototypical size. By next fall, he might be the #2 guy.
Wow, just watched Levis. I haven't watched much of the the 21 class, but this is the best looking QB I've seen all year. Got a quick, 3/4-arm release. Like Mahomes, he can throw like a shortstop when he needs to. Has Brady-like composure. Runs like Elway. I'm smitten. Do I really have to wait a year?
Effortless thrower
Runs with the physicality of Josh Allen
Fuck it, QB1 for 2023.
I'll die on that hill.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ Zanary said:
Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.
The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF). As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.
We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me. That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.
I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk.
And it it doesn't, you're still getting a QB who's pretty much guaranteed to give you 4,000 yards and 30 TDs every year.
4,000 yds, 30 TDs, and how many super bowls? I don’t care if our QB throws 7 INTs all year or 27… I just want the Vikings to win a Super Bowl while I’m still around.
I do wonder if the pro-Kirk militia truly believes we’ll win a SB during his next contract, or if we’re just glad to not be the Lions.
And if you were talking about Tennis or Golf or Chess, you'd have a point. It is absolutely bewildering to me how so many folks still don't seem to understand that a football team has 24 key players, MOST of whom have to be healthy, hot and playing at a high level at the right time in order for their team to win a Super Bowl.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JR44 said:
I don't see a guy who has coached Cousins for 3 years thinking he is the long term solution for this team. I would be surprised if he is the starter this year, I think they either make a trade or draft someone in the first round.
Well...just an fyi. No team in the NFL would trade a perfectly capable QB in March hoping to land their starter at the end of April. Just would never happen.
Vikings will either keep Cousins or trade him for a bridge and some picks. Even that is becoming less and less likely IMO.
As an fyi, I never said they would draft someone to be a starter, they would obviously sign or trade for a bridge QB.
I get it. He was brought in to be the missing piece. After 4 years, call me skeptical. I realize the defense has been bad the last couple years. I realize the offensive line has been lacking. I've never seen so many excuses for one player before. It seems it's never his fault.
4 years of history tell me he will finish about .500 year in and year out and produce decent statistics. But he can't win the superbowl because winning isn't a QB stat.
The decision to bring him here decimated what was a pretty fair defense and got the GM and coach fired. Contractually they may need to keep him one more year. But extending him long term seems risky given past history. I hope it works out but I'm disappointed in the results for the past few years and don't blame it all on coaching.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ Zanary said:
Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.
The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF). As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.
We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me. That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.
I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk.
And it it doesn't, you're still getting a QB who's pretty much guaranteed to give you 4,000 yards and 30 TDs every year.
4,000 yds, 30 TDs, and how many super bowls? I don’t care if our QB throws 7 INTs all year or 27… I just want the Vikings to win a Super Bowl while I’m still around.
I do wonder if the pro-Kirk militia truly believes we’ll win a SB during his next contract, or if we’re just glad to not be the Lions.
And if you were talking about Tennis or Golf or Chess, you'd have a point. It is absolutely bewildering to me how so many folks still don't seem to understand that a football team has 24 key players, MOST of whom have to be healthy, hot and playing at a high level at the right time in order for their team to win a Super Bowl.
Winning the Super Bowl? We haven't even been winning half our games the past couple years.
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