Quote: @Zanary said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ pattersaur said:
Guy Who Loved Tarvaris Jackson Also Loves Kirk Cousins, more at 10:00.
Kyler Murray is overrated and at the same I’d trade Kirk for him for sure. Kyler has potential to become better. Kirk has a decade in the league so I personally don’t see the same upside.
The story is still on its early stages with Kyler. What I dont like is AZ is trying to make his job easier and he’s throwing a tantrum. They got Hopkins for a steal, signed AJ Green, traded for Ertz and got JJ. He’s a talented player but he is coming off as immature right now.
I see no toughness from Murray. He melted against GB, was useless against the Rams, and the Cardinals have worked hard to put a system and tools around him.
He's gonna want massive money, he doesn't seem to have real toughness, and he's a pouter. Complete pass.
I’m indifferent on him as well. I would like to note that they likely wouldve beat GB if AJ Green knew the playcall on that INT. Second year in a row I believe they started out hot and fizzled late, but perhaps Kliff doesnt know the regular season is 17 games instead of 12.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ pattersaur said:
Guy Who Loved Tarvaris Jackson Also Loves Kirk Cousins, more at 10:00.
Kyler Murray is overrated and at the same I’d trade Kirk for him for sure. Kyler has potential to become better. Kirk has a decade in the league so I personally don’t see the same upside.
The irony:
When this site started, the rule was to leave the baggage of past sites behind, so I've barely mentioned him since getting here. However, people determined to keep mentioning nme with him never went away...
...I guess I don't think about y'all as much as you think about me.
I'm a Vikings fan, and I'll cheer for the people in our uniforms before I man-sturbate for others. I cheered, with difficulty, for McMahon and Favre even as they added themselves to our list of eventual disappointments.
Kirk has produced at a high level, often despite "protection", coaching, etc. We haven't bhad a QB of his caliber in a very long time, no matter what blather is said about him: the results are easily found. He can't defend, make kicks, or call plays...but he still has done an enormous amount, especially compared to any of our QBs since '09.
This is neither news, nor rocket science.
I respect your opinion on Kirk and I admire you rooting for Vikings QBs. There’s a ton of stats that support your position and I acknowledge that. Kirk is a good QB.
Despite the stats, I personally just wish the Vikings would try to find a *better* QB. I know many others do too. And we can amicably disagree on that. But the frustrating thing for myself is when you act like any opinion outside your own is absolutely insane, which is how your posts in this thread come off.
Anyways it really doesn’t bother me and I respect you as a poster regardless, I’m just trying to explain my position on Kirk and my previous comment directed to you.
Hopefully one day the Vikings land a QB we can all universally adore.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ Zanary said:
@ pattersaur said:
Guy Who Loved Tarvaris Jackson Also Loves Kirk Cousins, more at 10:00.
Kyler Murray is overrated and at the same I’d trade Kirk for him for sure. Kyler has potential to become better. Kirk has a decade in the league so I personally don’t see the same upside.
The irony:
When this site started, the rule was to leave the baggage of past sites behind, so I've barely mentioned him since getting here. However, people determined to keep mentioning nme with him never went away...
...I guess I don't think about y'all as much as you think about me.
I'm a Vikings fan, and I'll cheer for the people in our uniforms before I man-sturbate for others. I cheered, with difficulty, for McMahon and Favre even as they added themselves to our list of eventual disappointments.
Kirk has produced at a high level, often despite "protection", coaching, etc. We haven't bhad a QB of his caliber in a very long time, no matter what blather is said about him: the results are easily found. He can't defend, make kicks, or call plays...but he still has done an enormous amount, especially compared to any of our QBs since '09.
This is neither news, nor rocket science.
I respect your opinion on Kirk and I admire you rooting for Vikings QBs. There’s a ton of stats that support your position and I acknowledge that. Kirk is a good QB.
Despite the stats, I personally just wish the Vikings would try to find a *better* QB. I know many others do too. And we can amicably disagree on that. But the frustrating thing for myself is when you act like any opinion outside your own is absolutely insane, which is how your posts in this thread come off.
Anyways it really doesn’t bother me and I respect you as a poster regardless, I’m just trying to explain my position on Kirk and my previous comment directed to you.
Hopefully one day the Vikings land a QB we can all universally adore.
Understood...but I stated the differences between reasonable doubts/people and haters...
...and after that point, I'm just letting the haters assign themselves. I didn't name anyone.
A little surprising rumor about Murray. Kind of a hit job on him either leaked by the Cardinals or there's some truth to it. I think there's zero percent chance he's going anywhere, but it seems he's pissed about something.
Cardinals trainers put all the really good snacks in the high cabinets
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ VikingOracle said:
Keep this in mind -- Kyler Murray grew up a Vikings fan. Would you make a Cousins - Murray trade?
Nope...but it has practically nothing to do with Cousins.
We hung with Arizona until the latest in our heartbreaking missed kick series killed our efforts, so I don't pine for their offense vs ours...but instead, what I've noticed is that Murray looked worse in important games, looked bad as things got closer to playoff time. He's still a very good QB who likely has amazing potential... but I don't see mental toughness as much as I see a kid who's willing to take risks and his supporting cast has helped reward many of them.
That works in streaks, but...well, how many rings did Favre end up with in a two decade career?
if you are trying to convince me its a bad idea... you failed.
I dont care if he is a mental pussy, if he got us 1 ring in his career...well thats better than any other QB has done for the franchise in over 60 years. we cant get our 2nd until we get our first.
And in Cousins I see too many 3rd down check downs short of the sticks.
Name a QB who doesn't do this. This is my biggest pet peeve about football fans. So many complain about an 8 yard pass on 3rd and 12, when the truth is that, on 3rd down, the defense is stacked at the sticks. Sometimes your best hope of converting is throwing short of the sticks and hoping your guy can break through. It's not that QBs and OCs don't know where the marker is.
To follow up on this. Here's a great break down of exactly how Cousins compares to other QBs on 3rd and long. Hint: very good.
https://zonecoverage.com/2022/minnesota-...-and-long/
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ VikingOracle said:
Keep this in mind -- Kyler Murray grew up a Vikings fan. Would you make a Cousins - Murray trade?
Nope...but it has practically nothing to do with Cousins.
We hung with Arizona until the latest in our heartbreaking missed kick series killed our efforts, so I don't pine for their offense vs ours...but instead, what I've noticed is that Murray looked worse in important games, looked bad as things got closer to playoff time. He's still a very good QB who likely has amazing potential... but I don't see mental toughness as much as I see a kid who's willing to take risks and his supporting cast has helped reward many of them.
That works in streaks, but...well, how many rings did Favre end up with in a two decade career?
if you are trying to convince me its a bad idea... you failed.
I dont care if he is a mental pussy, if he got us 1 ring in his career...well thats better than any other QB has done for the franchise in over 60 years. we cant get our 2nd until we get our first.
And in Cousins I see too many 3rd down check downs short of the sticks.
Name a QB who doesn't do this. This is my biggest pet peeve about football fans. So many complain about an 8 yard pass on 3rd and 12, when the truth is that, on 3rd down, the defense is stacked at the sticks. Sometimes your best hope of converting is throwing short of the sticks and hoping your guy can break through. It's not that QBs and OCs don't know where the marker is.
To follow up on this. Here's a great break down of exactly how Cousins compares to other QBs on 3rd and long. Hint: very good.
https://zonecoverage.com/2022/minnesota-...-and-long/
You probably also saw Kirk’s end of season PFF grades.
#1 in the LEAGUE from a clean pocket— outstanding
#17 in the league under pressure— ehh
#30 in big time throws under pressure— ouch
#32 in YPA under pressure— yuck
The fan narrative on Kirk I think is actually pretty close to the truth. He’s a phenomenal QB when given time, but defenses that can pressure him (read: good teams) will always be a problem. Big time fork in the road for the Vikings. Either keep trying to improve the OL to get the most out of their QB, or move on to someone who can perform better under pressure. Moving on might get you a higher ceiling, but that comes with a much lower floor.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ VikingOracle said:
Keep this in mind -- Kyler Murray grew up a Vikings fan. Would you make a Cousins - Murray trade?
Nope...but it has practically nothing to do with Cousins.
We hung with Arizona until the latest in our heartbreaking missed kick series killed our efforts, so I don't pine for their offense vs ours...but instead, what I've noticed is that Murray looked worse in important games, looked bad as things got closer to playoff time. He's still a very good QB who likely has amazing potential... but I don't see mental toughness as much as I see a kid who's willing to take risks and his supporting cast has helped reward many of them.
That works in streaks, but...well, how many rings did Favre end up with in a two decade career?
if you are trying to convince me its a bad idea... you failed.
I dont care if he is a mental pussy, if he got us 1 ring in his career...well thats better than any other QB has done for the franchise in over 60 years. we cant get our 2nd until we get our first.
And in Cousins I see too many 3rd down check downs short of the sticks.
Name a QB who doesn't do this. This is my biggest pet peeve about football fans. So many complain about an 8 yard pass on 3rd and 12, when the truth is that, on 3rd down, the defense is stacked at the sticks. Sometimes your best hope of converting is throwing short of the sticks and hoping your guy can break through. It's not that QBs and OCs don't know where the marker is.
To follow up on this. Here's a great break down of exactly how Cousins compares to other QBs on 3rd and long. Hint: very good.
https://zonecoverage.com/2022/minnesota-...-and-long/
You probably also saw Kirk’s end of season PFF grades.
#1 in the LEAGUE from a clean pocket— outstanding
#17 in the league under pressure— ehh
#30 in big time throws under pressure— ouch
#32 in YPA under pressure— yuck
The fan narrative on Kirk I think is actually pretty close to the truth. He’s a phenomenal QB when given time, but defenses that can pressure him (read: good teams) will always be a problem. Big time fork in the road for the Vikings. Either keep trying to improve the OL to get the most out of their QB, or move on to someone who can perform better under pressure. Moving on might get you a higher ceiling, but that comes with a much lower floor.
I didn't see that. It's interesting. I think this is the 3rd year in a row that he finished 1st in the clean pocket ranking.
It depends on what fan narrative you're referring to. Most of it is from idiots on Twitter, but there's the "gets his stats from garbage time," which has been proven to be nonsense. "He's a check-down Charlie." More nonsense. "He's all stats; he can't come from behind." More nonsense. These are just a fraction of them.
Does he struggle under pressure? Yep. He's an immobile QB in a system that likes to throw long. That's gonna happen. I'll say one thing: it's far easier to improve your OL than find a QB who can play at a high level in this league. That could take years. Decades. Vikings OL really shouldn't be that far off.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ VikingOracle said:
Keep this in mind -- Kyler Murray grew up a Vikings fan. Would you make a Cousins - Murray trade?
Nope...but it has practically nothing to do with Cousins.
We hung with Arizona until the latest in our heartbreaking missed kick series killed our efforts, so I don't pine for their offense vs ours...but instead, what I've noticed is that Murray looked worse in important games, looked bad as things got closer to playoff time. He's still a very good QB who likely has amazing potential... but I don't see mental toughness as much as I see a kid who's willing to take risks and his supporting cast has helped reward many of them.
That works in streaks, but...well, how many rings did Favre end up with in a two decade career?
if you are trying to convince me its a bad idea... you failed.
I dont care if he is a mental pussy, if he got us 1 ring in his career...well thats better than any other QB has done for the franchise in over 60 years. we cant get our 2nd until we get our first.
And in Cousins I see too many 3rd down check downs short of the sticks.
Name a QB who doesn't do this. This is my biggest pet peeve about football fans. So many complain about an 8 yard pass on 3rd and 12, when the truth is that, on 3rd down, the defense is stacked at the sticks. Sometimes your best hope of converting is throwing short of the sticks and hoping your guy can break through. It's not that QBs and OCs don't know where the marker is.
To follow up on this. Here's a great break down of exactly how Cousins compares to other QBs on 3rd and long. Hint: very good.
https://zonecoverage.com/2022/minnesota-...-and-long/
You probably also saw Kirk’s end of season PFF grades.
#1 in the LEAGUE from a clean pocket— outstanding
#17 in the league under pressure— ehh
#30 in big time throws under pressure— ouch
#32 in YPA under pressure— yuck
The fan narrative on Kirk I think is actually pretty close to the truth. He’s a phenomenal QB when given time, but defenses that can pressure him (read: good teams) will always be a problem. Big time fork in the road for the Vikings. Either keep trying to improve the OL to get the most out of their QB, or move on to someone who can perform better under pressure. Moving on might get you a higher ceiling, but that comes with a much lower floor.
I still say the ball is in Kirks court... if he wants to make a run here, then he needs to help pay for that OL an D than is keeping him from being more successful.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ VikingOracle said:
Keep this in mind -- Kyler Murray grew up a Vikings fan. Would you make a Cousins - Murray trade?
Nope...but it has practically nothing to do with Cousins.
We hung with Arizona until the latest in our heartbreaking missed kick series killed our efforts, so I don't pine for their offense vs ours...but instead, what I've noticed is that Murray looked worse in important games, looked bad as things got closer to playoff time. He's still a very good QB who likely has amazing potential... but I don't see mental toughness as much as I see a kid who's willing to take risks and his supporting cast has helped reward many of them.
That works in streaks, but...well, how many rings did Favre end up with in a two decade career?
if you are trying to convince me its a bad idea... you failed.
I dont care if he is a mental pussy, if he got us 1 ring in his career...well thats better than any other QB has done for the franchise in over 60 years. we cant get our 2nd until we get our first.
And in Cousins I see too many 3rd down check downs short of the sticks.
Name a QB who doesn't do this. This is my biggest pet peeve about football fans. So many complain about an 8 yard pass on 3rd and 12, when the truth is that, on 3rd down, the defense is stacked at the sticks. Sometimes your best hope of converting is throwing short of the sticks and hoping your guy can break through. It's not that QBs and OCs don't know where the marker is.
To follow up on this. Here's a great break down of exactly how Cousins compares to other QBs on 3rd and long. Hint: very good.
https://zonecoverage.com/2022/minnesota-...-and-long/
You probably also saw Kirk’s end of season PFF grades.
#1 in the LEAGUE from a clean pocket— outstanding
#17 in the league under pressure— ehh
#30 in big time throws under pressure— ouch
#32 in YPA under pressure— yuck
The fan narrative on Kirk I think is actually pretty close to the truth. He’s a phenomenal QB when given time, but defenses that can pressure him (read: good teams) will always be a problem. Big time fork in the road for the Vikings. Either keep trying to improve the OL to get the most out of their QB, or move on to someone who can perform better under pressure. Moving on might get you a higher ceiling, but that comes with a much lower floor.
I didn't see that. It's interesting. I think this is the 3rd year in a row that he finished 1st in the clean pocket ranking.
It depends on what fan narrative you're referring to. Most of it is from idiots on Twitter, but there's the "gets his stats from garbage time," which has been proven to be nonsense. "He's a check-down Charlie." More nonsense. "He's all stats; he can't come from behind." More nonsense. These are just a fraction of them.
Does he struggle under pressure? Yep. He's an immobile QB in a system that likes to throw long. That's gonna happen. I'll say one thing: it's far easier to improve your OL than find a QB who can play at a high level in this league. That could take years. Decades. Vikings OL really shouldn't be that far off.
they likely arent that far off at OL, unless you have a QB doesnt sense pressure and move around in the pocket to keep pass rushers honest and guessing. Kirk could help his cause a lot by moving laterally or diagonally instead of just dropping back and anchoring. some, not all, but some of the sacks are definitely on Kirk and not the OL.
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