Quote: @ArizonaViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
"The Vikings plan to keep many scouts and front office members in place. They didn’t want massive changes in the scouting department, and since that’s not Adofo-Mensah’s background, he was more willing to accommodate those wishes than perhaps Ryan Poles would have been."
No time to be swapping out scouting staff.
Still have to laugh we hired a guy to assemble a championship NFL roster who's background "isn't in scouting" or football really at all for that matter, but instead stock trading and analytics. It's really no better then the Raiders taking a shot in the dark and hiring Mayock. I don't like it and think it's a questionable hiring at best, but no sense in grumbling about it anymore. He's our guy for the next four years and let's see what he can do
Before we pass judgement, let's at least see what he can do...He just might surprise us all.
Absolutely. I just think it's perfectly within the realm of reason to question why he was hired with a background like that and other candidates having better resumes for the position. I feel very confident it was at least partially politically motivated and nobody is going to sway me on that. But yeah, the proof will be I'm the pudding so let's see what he can do...
Quote: @ArizonaViking said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
"The Vikings plan to keep many scouts and front office members in place. They didn’t want massive changes in the scouting department, and since that’s not Adofo-Mensah’s background, he was more willing to accommodate those wishes than perhaps Ryan Poles would have been."
No time to be swapping out scouting staff.
Still have to laugh we hired a guy to assemble a championship NFL roster who's background "isn't in scouting" or football really at all for that matter, but instead stock trading and analytics. It's really no better then the Raiders taking a shot in the dark and hiring Mayock. I don't like it and think it's a questionable hiring at best, but no sense in grumbling about it anymore. He's our guy for the next four years and let's see what he can do
Before we pass judgement, let's at least see what he can do...He just might surprise us all.
Wait a minute, you mean actually let him do the job and see what happens?
![[Image: nm3kasbfeujm.gif]](http://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/x5/nm3kasbfeujm.gif)
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
"The Vikings plan to keep many scouts and front office members in place. They didn’t want massive changes in the scouting department, and since that’s not Adofo-Mensah’s background, he was more willing to accommodate those wishes than perhaps Ryan Poles would have been."
No time to be swapping out scouting staff.
Still have to laugh we hired a guy to assemble a championship NFL roster who's background "isn't in scouting" or football really at all for that matter, but instead stock trading and analytics. It's really no better then the Raiders taking a shot in the dark and hiring Mayock. I don't like it and think it's a questionable hiring at best, but no sense in grumbling about it anymore. He's our guy for the next four years and let's see what he can do
The problem is your assumptions are not supported by reality. He’s spent 9 years at the NFL level involved in all aspects of management, to include player evaluation the entire time. I don’t know what you think research and development people do in an NFL front office, but the primary job is literally in scouting/evaluation. “Scouting” is essentially the starter level personnel job in the NFL. As one moves up from the bottom, they move into jobs like Kwesi has had. Still evaluating talent, but on a broader scale for the team - managing it.
Secondly, Kwesi is NOT an “analytics” guy. I keep seeing that claimed, but I think it’s based in a lack of understanding what portfolio or investment analysts do or how they think. I’ve done the same work and it is not analytics, other than in the essence it’s a tiny part of the process. Kwesi, like myself is driven by evidence. Analytics is but a tiny piece of a whole. Analytics are worthless unless they are utilized within context.
An example: analytics might be developed to put a score on win/loss by QB and quantify it. Is this useful in the context of determining success? Of course not, it’s utterly worthless, or what I like to call a spurious relationship.
He’s going to be a long way from “Moneyball”. In fact, the NFL is far from money ball because the context is worlds different than something like hitting a ball in baseball. There are too many moving parts in football and game plans, to truly utilize “analytics” in the sense that baseball does.
How will he do? Time will tell, but the idea he’s just some know nothing is not supported by anything. Quite the opposite.
Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
"The Vikings plan to keep many scouts and front office members in place. They didn’t want massive changes in the scouting department, and since that’s not Adofo-Mensah’s background, he was more willing to accommodate those wishes than perhaps Ryan Poles would have been."
No time to be swapping out scouting staff.
Still have to laugh we hired a guy to assemble a championship NFL roster who's background "isn't in scouting" or football really at all for that matter, but instead stock trading and analytics. It's really no better then the Raiders taking a shot in the dark and hiring Mayock. I don't like it and think it's a questionable hiring at best, but no sense in grumbling about it anymore. He's our guy for the next four years and let's see what he can do
The problem is your assumptions are not supported by reality. He’s spent 9 years at the NFL level involved in all aspects of management, to include player evaluation the entire time. I don’t know what you think research and development people do in an NFL front office, but the primary job is literally in scouting/evaluation. “Scouting” is essentially the starter level personnel job in the NFL. As one moves up from the bottom, they move into jobs like Kwesi has had. Still evaluating talent, but on a broader scale for the team - managing it.
Secondly, Kwesi is NOT an “analytics” guy. I keep seeing that claimed, but I think it’s based in a lack of understanding what portfolio or investment analysts do or how they think. I’ve done the same work and it is not analytics, other than in the essence it’s a tiny part of the process. Kwesi, like myself is driven by evidence. Analytics is but a tiny piece of a whole. Analytics are worthless unless they are utilized within context.
An example: analytics might be developed to put a score on win/loss by QB and quantify it. Is this useful in the context of determining success? Of course not, it’s utterly worthless, or what I like to call a spurious relationship.
He’s going to be a long way from “Moneyball”. In fact, the NFL is far from money ball because the context is worlds different than something like hitting a ball in baseball. There are too many moving parts in football and game plans, to truly utilize “analytics” in the sense that baseball does.
How will he do? Time will tell, but the idea he’s just some know nothing is not supported by anything. Quite the opposite.
Insightful, but your last sentence indicates some poster who said he was a know nothing? I haven't seen any of us indicate that in anyway. I agree with you that many are just going by "quotes" from media sources about his analytical skills and overall intelligence. But their will be bumps in the road with the lack of experience in the front office/executive level of the NFL. You can't teach experience it has to be earned (Ha). Of course, I would say this about any candidate for this position, in fact I have posted it before Mensah, only 2 years in the Browns (not talking about an elite organization by any means) front office is definitely taking a leap of faith and knowledge from the Wilf's etc that their will be a huge learning curve.
That is also why I have and will continue to not want to take a flyer on the 1 year DC from SF. I want someone with a lot more experience and I would prefer an Offensive mindset.
Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
"The Vikings plan to keep many scouts and front office members in place. They didn’t want massive changes in the scouting department, and since that’s not Adofo-Mensah’s background, he was more willing to accommodate those wishes than perhaps Ryan Poles would have been."
No time to be swapping out scouting staff.
Still have to laugh we hired a guy to assemble a championship NFL roster who's background "isn't in scouting" or football really at all for that matter, but instead stock trading and analytics. It's really no better then the Raiders taking a shot in the dark and hiring Mayock. I don't like it and think it's a questionable hiring at best, but no sense in grumbling about it anymore. He's our guy for the next four years and let's see what he can do
The problem is your assumptions are not supported by reality. He’s spent 9 years at the NFL level involved in all aspects of management, to include player evaluation the entire time. I don’t know what you think research and development people do in an NFL front office, but the primary job is literally in scouting/evaluation. “Scouting” is essentially the starter level personnel job in the NFL. As one moves up from the bottom, they move into jobs like Kwesi has had. Still evaluating talent, but on a broader scale for the team - managing it.
Secondly, Kwesi is NOT an “analytics” guy. I keep seeing that claimed, but I think it’s based in a lack of understanding what portfolio or investment analysts do or how they think. I’ve done the same work and it is not analytics, other than in the essence it’s a tiny part of the process. Kwesi, like myself is driven by evidence. Analytics is but a tiny piece of a whole. Analytics are worthless unless they are utilized within context.
An example: analytics might be developed to put a score on win/loss by QB and quantify it. Is this useful in the context of determining success? Of course not, it’s utterly worthless, or what I like to call a spurious relationship.
He’s going to be a long way from “Moneyball”. In fact, the NFL is far from money ball because the context is worlds different than something like hitting a ball in baseball. There are too many moving parts in football and game plans, to truly utilize “analytics” in the sense that baseball does.
How will he do? Time will tell, but the idea he’s just some know nothing is not supported by anything. Quite the opposite.
Research and development could cover a wide range of things relating to the every day operations of a football team. There are some analytics involved with scouting, but the scouting department and research and development departments are two different things. It would make zero sense for the 49ers to take this guy who's never played football and is an economics major and thrust him into a key role in evaluating draft talent. As a numbers cruncher and analytics guy ala moneyball, that makes sense...as a talent evaluater or scout, it doesn't. Again nobody's saying he's some "know nothing" but his overall football resume pales in comparison to some of the other candidates interviewed. It's certainly arguable on if he was truly the best candidate for the job
Quote: @JustinTime18™ said:
@ MaroonBells said:
So the OP begs the question: Is it Queasy? Or Kwayzee?
By the way, Kwesi Adofo-Mensah's first name is pronounced Kway-see. It rhymes with macy, not messy.
I'm just gonna call him Kwez. We got Kwez, and Brez. And some other folks whose names don't rhyme.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
"The Vikings plan to keep many scouts and front office members in place. They didn’t want massive changes in the scouting department, and since that’s not Adofo-Mensah’s background, he was more willing to accommodate those wishes than perhaps Ryan Poles would have been."
No time to be swapping out scouting staff.
Still have to laugh we hired a guy to assemble a championship NFL roster who's background "isn't in scouting" or football really at all for that matter, but instead stock trading and analytics. It's really no better then the Raiders taking a shot in the dark and hiring Mayock. I don't like it and think it's a questionable hiring at best, but no sense in grumbling about it anymore. He's our guy for the next four years and let's see what he can do
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Oh come on. No better than Mayock? Sure, neither have a background in scouting, but where Mayock had zero experience in an NFL front office, KAM has 9. What's more, Mayock had zero background in analytics, while KAM is supposedly some kind of analytics wunderkind. Princeton and Stanford educated. Experience on Wall Street in asset valuation, which IMO is a lot like player evaluation. According to the 49ers, he led efforts to "develop and implement advanced quantitative methods for game strategy and personnel evaluation."
I keep saying it, but this is the future. In 20 years, we'll look back on NFL front offices and go "man, remember when these staffs were filled with ex NFL players? How stupid was that!!?" As if height/weight/speed somehow qualifies a human to make value decisions in a billion dollar organization.
“My whole life, and not just my professional life, I have been really passionate about decision-making under uncertainty"
This quote from Kwesi Adofo-Mensah is a good way to look at things, especially right now. There is a lot of uncertainty with the team and they need passion, energy and intelligence to lead the way. The challenges of the roster as is and possible changes to come require a balanced approach. Looking forward to seeing how things unfold.
I mean I don't get the whole he doesn't have experience in football personnel complaints.
8 years at SF in R&D. What do you think he did? Design helmets, shoulder pads? Personnel evaluation. Scouts watch tape and grade technique. He compiles data. You marry the two.
What do you think PFF is doing? Why are they so popular with fans, they do EXACTLY what he's done. Except he spent 7+ seasons in SF surrounded by football people and scouts and not "fans". Is out of the question he didn't learn talent evaluation from the 49ers?
Analytics is already here dude. This is an exciting movement to me. Let scouts scout, then marry their evaluations with the analytics. Belichik was ahead of his time in that he evaluated every damn possible variable to gain an edge, sadly including cheating with spying to deflated footballs, but he was constantly searching for anything to give his team an edge.
The margin for wins and losses is razor thin. Look at us this season.
I'm thrilled to hire a guy who is the smartest guy in the room, who listens, who learns. We have tried the grizzled old guys with loads of experience who can't adapt or change.
But let's not pretend this is some hedge fund manager whose only NFL experience is running FFL.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ JustinTime18™ said:
"The Vikings plan to keep many scouts and front office members in place. They didn’t want massive changes in the scouting department, and since that’s not Adofo-Mensah’s background, he was more willing to accommodate those wishes than perhaps Ryan Poles would have been."
No time to be swapping out scouting staff.
Still have to laugh we hired a guy to assemble a championship NFL roster who's background "isn't in scouting" or football really at all for that matter, but instead stock trading and analytics. It's really no better then the Raiders taking a shot in the dark and hiring Mayock. I don't like it and think it's a questionable hiring at best, but no sense in grumbling about it anymore. He's our guy for the next four years and let's see what he can do
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Oh come on. No better than Mayock? Sure, neither have a background in scouting, but where Mayock had zero experience in an NFL front office, KAM has 9. What's more, Mayock had zero background in analytics, while KAM is supposedly some kind of analytics wunderkind. Princeton and Stanford educated. Experience on Wall Street in asset valuation, which IMO is a lot like player evaluation. According to the 49ers, he led efforts to "develop and implement advanced quantitative methods for game strategy and personnel evaluation."
I keep saying it, but this is the future. In 20 years, we'll look back on NFL front offices and go "man, remember when these staffs were filled with ex NFL players? How stupid was that!!?" As if height/weight/speed somehow qualifies a human to make value decisions in a billion dollar organization.
I guess if you value the analytics side of running a football operation then Kwesi's your guy. If you value actual football playing experience and college scouting (he did it as an analyst for years) then Mayock's your guy. Neither is more qualified then the other in my opinion. I personally would place more value on someone that's actually played the game at a high level and been involved in scouting and not just running numbers. I'm just using Mayock as an example for reference. How Kwesi's resume bested that of Spytek's I have no idea.
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