Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
honestly though, when looking at our own country's history of how the natives were treated are we surprised to learn it happened in other places as well? look at Africa, central and south America and so many other parts of the world, indigenous peoples are still being treated horribly but we rarely hear any outrage. Humans as whole are not a very good species, for the planet or each other.
We feel good about outrage, but mention reparations, whats the response? What treaty is valid in SD, the 1868 Two Nations?
I've yet to harm a native american or black slave. Nor did my ancestors. You're welcome to start a gofundme account to assist them in any way you feel appropriate. But not one damn nickle of my hard earned money needs to go towards any reparations.
no but you stand on the shoulders of those that have.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
honestly though, when looking at our own country's history of how the natives were treated are we surprised to learn it happened in other places as well? look at Africa, central and south America and so many other parts of the world, indigenous peoples are still being treated horribly but we rarely hear any outrage. Humans as whole are not a very good species, for the planet or each other.
We feel good about outrage, but mention reparations, whats the response? What treaty is valid in SD, the 1868 Two Nations?
I've yet to harm a native american or black slave. Nor did my ancestors. You're welcome to start a gofundme account to assist them in any way you feel appropriate. But not one damn nickle of my hard earned money needs to go towards any reparations.
no but you stand on the shoulders of those that have.
at what point is there absolution? how many generations does it take before the sins of the father are no longer carried by the sons sons sons sons and daughters? what about the tribes that were decimated by other tribes, are they entitled to seek reparations from the warring tribes? the battles of the south west between the native tribes and Mexicans/Spaniards are quite messy, should there be some damages paid there? at what point does it go back to a conquered people status and start fresh from there? I am sure throughout history about every person can find a era where their families were grossly mistreated and were run off their rightful land.
and lets say we were to issue reparations. what would they look like? is the US simply going to order all the white people to go back to Europe? put all Blacks back on planes for Africa, hell we cant even agree to control immigration now, how would we give back to the NA what they seek in reparations? You cant and you wont, its easy to say we should, how about considering the could aspect? oh and if its on the table, it needs a fiscal measure that doesnt just kick the can down to the road to future generations, if our generation thinks this is something that should be done then it needs to be paid for now. So how much of your IRA are you willing to give up to pay for these reparations, are you ready to go back to work for the rest of your life to pay for what you deem is the right thing to do?
What would reparations do to change the cycle of substance abuse, violence, etc. Some of the Native tribes that are fortunate enough to have casino revenues in major areas (like the Ho Chunk tribe here in WI) make a great deal of $$ based on their sovereign status. Has it changed that trajectory of abuse, violence, etc?....not one bit. There are nicer cars in the driveways, better substances to abuse, etc. but the underlying issues are still there. I spent a lot of time around the reservations growing up. Like Jimmy, I'm not sure the Reservations are the best idea these days. It's not like we still have the nomadic tribes living off the land anymore. Instead, we have isolated people living in their own version of slums. Integrating these people into society while still protecting the cultural heritage seems a much better solution.
Edit: Btw...I'll reserve judgement on the original story until more facts come out. The school started in 1899...certainly the conditions were tough back then with disease especially on the Canadian plains with minimal medical care. My grandparents had 4 children and only two survived into their teens (polio, lupus).
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
honestly though, when looking at our own country's history of how the natives were treated are we surprised to learn it happened in other places as well? look at Africa, central and south America and so many other parts of the world, indigenous peoples are still being treated horribly but we rarely hear any outrage. Humans as whole are not a very good species, for the planet or each other.
We feel good about outrage, but mention reparations, whats the response? What treaty is valid in SD, the 1868 Two Nations?
I've yet to harm a native american or black slave. Nor did my ancestors. You're welcome to start a gofundme account to assist them in any way you feel appropriate. But not one damn nickle of my hard earned money needs to go towards any reparations.
no but you stand on the shoulders of those that have.
at what point is there absolution? how many generations does it take before the sins of the father are no longer carried by the sons sons sons sons and daughters? what about the tribes that were decimated by other tribes, are they entitled to seek reparations from the warring tribes? the battles of the south west between the native tribes and Mexicans/Spaniards are quite messy, should there be some damages paid there? at what point does it go back to a conquered people status and start fresh from there? I am sure throughout history about every person can find a era where their families were grossly mistreated and were run off their rightful land.
and lets say we were to issue reparations. what would they look like? is the US simply going to order all the white people to go back to Europe? put all Blacks back on planes for Africa, hell we cant even agree to control immigration now, how would we give back to the NA what they seek in reparations? You cant and you wont, its easy to say we should, how about considering the could aspect? oh and if its on the table, it needs a fiscal measure that doesnt just kick the can down to the road to future generations, if our generation thinks this is something that should be done then it needs to be paid for now. So how much of your IRA are you willing to give up to pay for these reparations, are you ready to go back to work for the rest of your life to pay for what you deem is the right thing to do?
How many generations, since Jim Crow laws were repealed? Do you believe they had no effects after. When I realized that people my age were born a decade before that day, it put things in context for me. Don’t know how much it will cost, no serious discussion, just alot of guessing. How about the folks in Tulsa, still lot of folk from the first generation after that event,
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
honestly though, when looking at our own country's history of how the natives were treated are we surprised to learn it happened in other places as well? look at Africa, central and south America and so many other parts of the world, indigenous peoples are still being treated horribly but we rarely hear any outrage. Humans as whole are not a very good species, for the planet or each other.
We feel good about outrage, but mention reparations, whats the response? What treaty is valid in SD, the 1868 Two Nations?
I've yet to harm a native american or black slave. Nor did my ancestors. You're welcome to start a gofundme account to assist them in any way you feel appropriate. But not one damn nickle of my hard earned money needs to go towards any reparations.
no but you stand on the shoulders of those that have.
at what point is there absolution? how many generations does it take before the sins of the father are no longer carried by the sons sons sons sons and daughters? what about the tribes that were decimated by other tribes, are they entitled to seek reparations from the warring tribes? the battles of the south west between the native tribes and Mexicans/Spaniards are quite messy, should there be some damages paid there? at what point does it go back to a conquered people status and start fresh from there? I am sure throughout history about every person can find a era where their families were grossly mistreated and were run off their rightful land.
and lets say we were to issue reparations. what would they look like? is the US simply going to order all the white people to go back to Europe? put all Blacks back on planes for Africa, hell we cant even agree to control immigration now, how would we give back to the NA what they seek in reparations? You cant and you wont, its easy to say we should, how about considering the could aspect? oh and if its on the table, it needs a fiscal measure that doesnt just kick the can down to the road to future generations, if our generation thinks this is something that should be done then it needs to be paid for now. So how much of your IRA are you willing to give up to pay for these reparations, are you ready to go back to work for the rest of your life to pay for what you deem is the right thing to do?
How many generations, since Jim Crow laws were repealed? Do you believe they had no effects after. When I realized that people my age were born a decade before that day, it put things in context for me. Don’t know how much it will cost, no serious discussion, just alot of guessing. How about the folks in Tulsa, still lot of folk from the first generation after that event,
we arent talking about jim crow ( the natives arent segregated by laws, they are free to leave the reservations and have been for almost 90 years) you said you supported the notion of paying reparations to the Native Americans, so put a number on it... its easy to talk about doing something, makes one feel real good about themselves to say a wrong should be righted. how much of your retirement account are you willing to give up to right this wrong?
the current system is a money sucking failure that wastes federal tax dollars and do little for the welfare of many Native Americans and their living conditions are getting worse as drugs and alcohol dependency are only getting worse. I dont see the reservation system being beneficial to many NA so preserving it as it is today seems counter productive. I honestly think the only thing that could possibly get things headed in the right direction is a multi generational plan to wean them off the social programs and strongly support not only investment in NA businesses in those former reservation areas, but also try and steer outside investors to do more business development on the areas currently held as reservations. The sovereign nation thing is nice when it works for them, but so often I hear where the councils are not acting in the best interest of their peoples and often in contradiction to what many actually want. and those councils are often so ill run, and the people being elected are ill prepared, its a shit show. ( and my information is coming from my friends and customers that are tribal members living on the reservations of South Dakota)
EDIT: I do have to say, from at least one of my friends on the reservation whom I have talked frankly about this kind of stuff with... her sentiment is she is actually happy, but she has a good strong family unit, they are all hard workers and are employed, and her most often used phrase... "dont you mess with my health care" despite IHS having a pretty poor reputation in many areas, she is pretty happy with her care and she doesnt want to lose the IHS and be pushed onto ACA ( I dont honestly know the differences, but apparently she does)
Quote:
How many generations, since Jim Crow laws were repealed? Do you believe they had no effects after. When I realized that people my age were born a decade before that day, it put things in context for me. Don’t know how much it will cost, no serious discussion, just alot of guessing. How about the folks in Tulsa, still lot of folk from the first generation after that event,
It does make me smile when a proud Democrat brings up Jim Crow laws like they're someone else's doing. Probably just hoping that Black People are too stupid to know which party implemented, supported and defended Jim Crow laws. That fits right in with calling for a Voter ID as Jim Crow legislation. Evidently, Democrats believe that POC are too lazy or too stupid to get an ID to vote (as if they didn't have one already) and thus unable to participate in the electoral process.
Why go so far back to find aggrieved Blacks? Why don't we talk about how many POC have died as a result of the defund the police movement. Mayors and politicians are literally ensuring the slaughter of Blacks at among the highest levels ever by deliberately ignoring their public safety mandates. Black Lives don't matter. If they did, you wouldn't be ensuring so many die. The Democrat politicians are still trying to keep Blacks on the Democratic plantations...ultimately doing more harm to them under the pretense of protecting them.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
honestly though, when looking at our own country's history of how the natives were treated are we surprised to learn it happened in other places as well? look at Africa, central and south America and so many other parts of the world, indigenous peoples are still being treated horribly but we rarely hear any outrage. Humans as whole are not a very good species, for the planet or each other.
We feel good about outrage, but mention reparations, whats the response? What treaty is valid in SD, the 1868 Two Nations?
I've yet to harm a native american or black slave. Nor did my ancestors. You're welcome to start a gofundme account to assist them in any way you feel appropriate. But not one damn nickle of my hard earned money needs to go towards any reparations.
no but you stand on the shoulders of those that have.
Nope. Not even a little bit. My Irish ancestors were probably slaves themselves.
Again, start a gofundme account. Put your money where your mouth is. Or are you a typical democrat who only knows how to give other people’s money away?
Quote: @greediron said:
interesting when people actually do a bit of journalism on a topic.
https://tnc.news/2021/07/12/six-things-t...l-schools/
so much for the "mass graves" and genocide thrown about by the irresponsible media
And that is responsible media and good journalism? Candice Malcolm cites her own twitter posts and youtube videos to support her editorial. Wonder who the editor is, oh wait that would be Candice Malcolm, the author, editor in chief and founder of the “True North, digital media platform”, I’ll agree its not mainstream. At least I read it and checked the sources and will give it the consideration it deserves.
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