Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can anybody put out a good reason not to have a picture voter id requirement? You need IDs for literally everything else in the country but its to demanding for the right to vote? Make the argument please.
And therein lies your biggest problem: the common assumption conservatives make that everyone is, or at least should be, like them.
They should be white, employed, a driver, rural or suburban and they can't figure out why someone would not have, for example, a drivers license. That's just one form of ID but it's by far the most common.
Well not everyone is like that. Young, old, poor, minorities, urban dwellers who take transit don't always have drivers licenses. Other forms of ID perhaps, but not necessarily.
In an effective Democracy you want as many people to vote as possible. By enacting voter ID laws, millions of Americans would be unable to vote. And let's be honest. Everyone knows what this is about. It's obviously not about reducing the 16 of 16M fraud cases. We all know the vast majority of the voters it would disenfranchise are voters who vote democratic.
With that mind, let's hear your argument for it.
They don't buy alcohol? Or do any number of other things that require IDs? Yet they vote? I really find that a stretch. The young can't vote anyway, so that excuse is out the window.
The large elephant in the room is, of that vast majority of democratic voters, are they legal voters?
Who knows if they buy alcohol. I suspect many don't. We're talking about the elderly, inner-city folks who don't drive and take transit. You'd have to ask them why they don't have an ID, but 21M legal US citizens don't have a government issued ID. If you disenfranchise those folks and we no longer have an effective democracy.
how many of those 21 million legal US citizens are not of legal voting age?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
194 mass shootings in 130 days this year: let’s make it easier to buy guns
16 alleged cases of voter fraud out of 160 million votes in 2020: let’s make it harder to vote
The GQP
Just so we’re clear, something as important as picking our leaders should be done without ID but something Constitutionally protected should have all sorts of ID requirements and fierce background checks?
one is a problem, one isn’t. one needs a solution and the other doesn’t. thats the point.
So says you. You cant possibly know how much voter fraud exists without actually ID’ing people. Otherwise we literally take the persons word for who they are. Imagine if bars took teenagers word.
You need an ID to do everything of any importance in the world. Assuming POC cant get one is the most irrational BS argument the left has going these days.
Will you be ok when facial recognition software inevitablely gets used to ID people?
facial recognician is already part of your driver license. There is only proof of election integrity, not one bit of proof of any organized fraud. their is a whole lot of proof on mass shootings though.
Barr pointed out there is voter fraud. You even thumbs upped him. So there is voter fraud happening. Some of us believe its the tip of the iceberg while you believe its a non issue. I dont believe it was enough to tip the 2020 presidential election but there were some very slim margins in down ballots.
Yeah. 16 out of 160,000,000. Pretty sure it didn't make a difference.
Can anybody put out a good reason not to have a picture voter id requirement? You need IDs for literally everything else in the country but its to demanding for the right to vote? Make the argument please.
And therein lies your biggest problem: the common assumption conservatives make that everyone is, or at least should be, like them.
They should be white, employed, a driver, rural or suburban and they can't figure out why someone would not have, for example, a drivers license. That's just one form of ID but it's by far the most common.
Well not everyone is like that. Young, old, poor, minorities, urban dwellers who take transit don't always have drivers licenses. Other forms of ID perhaps, but not necessarily.
In an effective Democracy you want as many people to vote as possible. By enacting voter ID laws, millions of Americans would be unable to vote. And let's be honest. Everyone knows what this is about. It's obviously not about reducing the 16 of 16M fraud cases. We all know the vast majority of the voters it would disenfranchise are voters who vote democratic.
With that mind, let's hear your argument for it.
Who are all these people that legally have the right to vote but yet dont have easy access to some form of picture ID? How do these people do all the other things in this country that require a picture ID?
I asked a simple question and you failed to answer it. Why try and make it about me, apparently you can't just answer the question?
I will answer yours, there are laws saying who can' and can't vote, just as there are laws saying other things, many of which require a visual id, this isn't like asking people to take an IQ test or some way of paring down who votes, its about ensuring that people trying to vote are legally able to do so. If the cases of fraud are so minimal why are you so scared of voter id requirements? Maybe its because if IDs were required it would expose many many more cases of fraud?
Your lack of knowledge about the way the world is outside of South Dakotas borders is astonishing.
It's estimated that 21M adult US citizens lack some kind of government issued photo ID for the reasons I explained above. But let's stop dancing around it. Everyone knows what this is about and so do you. And it ain't fraud.
Personally, I think voting in the next election should require vaccination cards.
I call bull shit on that number, you cant do shit in this country without a valid picture ID, and even if they dont have one its not that difficult to get one.
and no, not everything is racism, no matter what the voices in your head keep telling you and no matter how often you repeat it, not everything is about racism.
and thats cute on the vaccination thing, how about we just start with proving that somebody is who they say they are and go from there. by the way, for months ive heard how underserved the minority/impoverished communities are when it comes to getting access to vaccinations and health care, now you want to exclude those people from voting in your world, mighty bid of you.
Stop playing the victim. Who said anything about racism!? My God you hear racist in everything, Jimmy. Why is that? If you require everyone to have a government issued ID to vote, appr. 21M folks will be disenfranchised. When I say we know what that's about, I'm not talking about racism, though I'm sure it plays a part, like it does in everything. I'm talking about the fact that the bulk of those people vote Democratic. The elderly, the poor, inner city folks who don't drive or drink as much as Greed....THAT'S what this about it. Reps know it, Dems know it, I know it and you know it.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can anybody put out a good reason not to have a picture voter id requirement? You need IDs for literally everything else in the country but its to demanding for the right to vote? Make the argument please.
And therein lies your biggest problem: the common assumption conservatives make that everyone is, or at least should be, like them.
They should be white, employed, a driver, rural or suburban and they can't figure out why someone would not have, for example, a drivers license. That's just one form of ID but it's by far the most common.
Well not everyone is like that. Young, old, poor, minorities, urban dwellers who take transit don't always have drivers licenses. Other forms of ID perhaps, but not necessarily.
In an effective Democracy you want as many people to vote as possible. By enacting voter ID laws, millions of Americans would be unable to vote. And let's be honest. Everyone knows what this is about. It's obviously not about reducing the 16 of 16M fraud cases. We all know the vast majority of the voters it would disenfranchise are voters who vote democratic.
With that mind, let's hear your argument for it.
They don't buy alcohol? Or do any number of other things that require IDs? Yet they vote? I really find that a stretch. The young can't vote anyway, so that excuse is out the window.
The large elephant in the room is, of that vast majority of democratic voters, are they legal voters?
Who knows if they buy alcohol. I suspect many don't. We're talking about the elderly, inner-city folks who don't drive and take transit. You'd have to ask them why they don't have an ID, but 21M legal US citizens don't have a government issued ID. If you disenfranchise those folks and we no longer have an effective democracy.
how many of those 21 million legal US citizens are not of legal voting age?
I don't think any of them are. I think the stat I read is about US citizens of voting age, but even if it does include 3-year-olds, then it's still too many. In a Democracy, you want as many people to vote as possible. You want to make it easier to vote, not harder. Any group, tribe, party, whatever, that wants to suppress the voice of the people can't be trusted.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Who are all these people that legally have the right to vote but yet dont have easy access to some form of picture ID? How do these people do all the other things in this country that require a picture ID?
I asked a simple question and you failed to answer it. Why try and make it about me, apparently you can't just answer the question?
I will answer yours, there are laws saying who can' and can't vote, just as there are laws saying other things, many of which require a visual id, this isn't like asking people to take an IQ test or some way of paring down who votes, its about ensuring that people trying to vote are legally able to do so. If the cases of fraud are so minimal why are you so scared of voter id requirements? Maybe its because if IDs were required it would expose many many more cases of fraud?
Your lack of knowledge about the way the world is outside of South Dakotas borders is astonishing.
It's estimated that 21M adult US citizens lack some kind of government issued photo ID for the reasons I explained above. But let's stop dancing around it. Everyone knows what this is about and so do you. And it ain't fraud.
Personally, I think voting in the next election should require vaccination cards.
I call bull shit on that number, you cant do shit in this country without a valid picture ID, and even if they dont have one its not that difficult to get one.
and no, not everything is racism, no matter what the voices in your head keep telling you and no matter how often you repeat it, not everything is about racism.
and thats cute on the vaccination thing, how about we just start with proving that somebody is who they say they are and go from there. by the way, for months ive heard how underserved the minority/impoverished communities are when it comes to getting access to vaccinations and health care, now you want to exclude those people from voting in your world, mighty bid of you.
Stop playing the victim. Who said anything about racism!? My God you hear racist in everything, Jimmy. Why is that? If you require everyone to have a government issued ID to vote, appr. 21M folks will be disenfranchised. When I say we know what that's about, I'm not talking about racism, though I'm sure it plays a part, like it does in everything. I'm talking about the fact that the bulk of those people vote Democratic. The elderly, the poor, inner city folks who don't drive or drink as much as Greed....THAT'S what this about it. Reps know it, Dems know it, I know it and you know it. I man not know as much as you think you do. seriously, you cant do shit in this country without a photo ID. I am not going to type this all out so here is a cut and paste of a partial list.. - DMV – You are required to have some form of identification to obtain a driver’s license in most states.
- Airports – Try boarding a commercial flight these days without a photo ID.
- Hospitals – Most hospitals require some form of ID for any out-patient or in-patient procedure. The last time I ended up at the emergency room, they were still asking me for my ID.
- Pharmacy – We have to show our driver’s license just to purchase over-the-counter sinus medication like Co-Advil, let alone a prescription.
- Blood Donation – Everyone I know that has donated blood has had to present their ID before being accepted.
- Banks – Many banks require some form of ID to carry out any transaction except perhaps making a deposit.
- Writing a Check – Most stores want a driver’s license or some other photo ID in order to cash a check or even pay for a purchase with a check.
- Using Credit Cards – I have been in some stores that have asked to see a driver’s license or some other form of ID before they would accept my credit card.
- Gun Shop – Right! Try buying a gun or ammunition without a driver’s license or any other form of ID.
- Social Security Office – They require ID to verify who you are before they will even entertain paying you any benefits. To obtain SSI Disability requires ID plus a ton of documentation, yet many poor and minority people manage to obtain SSI Disability coverage.
- Pawn Shop – Laws have tightened up so much on pawn shops to prevent them from purchasing stole property that pawn shops require a form of ID, preferably a photo.
- Jail – Most cities, counties, and states require some form of ID before they book someone into jail.
- Courts – Most courts require an ID in order for you conduct any form of business with them.
- Unemployment – Most unemployment offices require an ID before paying benefits.
- Public Schools – Many schools require any non-student to present an ID at the office before being allowed to visit the school for any reason. I use to be a meter reader for an electric company and always had to go to the office first and show my ID before being allowed to OUR electric boxes.
- Adoption Agency – It is almost impossible to adopt a child without an ID and a stack of other information.
- Parole & Probation – Most people placed on parole or probation are required to have an ID when they check in with their court appointed handlers.
- Auto Insurance – You are required to have an ID in order to obtain auto insurance.
- Traffic Stop – In most states you are required to present your driver’s license, proof of insurance and vehicle registration if you are pulled for by a police officer.
- Passport – You have to produce an original birth certificate and photo in order to obtain a U.S. passport. (Makes you wonder how Barack Obama obtained a valid passport.)
- Post Office – I’ve had to show a photo ID to pick up packages at the Post Office.
Shit, I live in a small rural town where I have had the same bank, the same pharmacy, the same clinic etc etc and am still required to show my damn ID for lots of shit.
i just find it very hard to believe that there are many in this country, even in big scary cities outside my safe zone, that would have a hard time getting a photo ID if they dont already have one, and even so, if it were to become law I am sure that the local democratic party would hold a free food event to make sure that they get everybody a photo ID so as to protect their future deceased voter pool.
An ACLU fact sheet from May 2017 claims that 21 million Americans do not have a government-issued photo ID, citing a 2006 survey from the Brennan Center for Justice. About 11 percent of the 987 voting-age American citizens surveyed said that they did not have a current, unexpired government-issued photo ID. Eleven percent of the adult citizen population in the 2000 Census amounts to 21 million Americans.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can anybody put out a good reason not to have a picture voter id requirement? You need IDs for literally everything else in the country but its to demanding for the right to vote? Make the argument please.
And therein lies your biggest problem: the common assumption conservatives make that everyone is, or at least should be, like them.
They should be white, employed, a driver, rural or suburban and they can't figure out why someone would not have, for example, a drivers license. That's just one form of ID but it's by far the most common.
Well not everyone is like that. Young, old, poor, minorities, urban dwellers who take transit don't always have drivers licenses. Other forms of ID perhaps, but not necessarily.
In an effective Democracy you want as many people to vote as possible. By enacting voter ID laws, millions of Americans would be unable to vote. And let's be honest. Everyone knows what this is about. It's obviously not about reducing the 16 of 16M fraud cases. We all know the vast majority of the voters it would disenfranchise are voters who vote democratic.
With that mind, let's hear your argument for it.
They don't buy alcohol? Or do any number of other things that require IDs? Yet they vote? I really find that a stretch. The young can't vote anyway, so that excuse is out the window.
The large elephant in the room is, of that vast majority of democratic voters, are they legal voters?
Who knows if they buy alcohol. I suspect many don't. We're talking about the elderly, inner-city folks who don't drive and take transit. You'd have to ask them why they don't have an ID, but 21M legal US citizens don't have a government issued ID. If you disenfranchise those folks and we no longer have an effective democracy.
how many of those 21 million legal US citizens are not of legal voting age?
I don't think any of them are. I think the stat I read is about US citizens of voting age, but even if it does include 3-year-olds, then it's still too many. In a Democracy, you want as many people to vote as possible. You want to make it easier to vote, not harder. Any group, tribe, party, whatever, that wants to suppress the voice of the people can't be trusted.
its not about suppressing anything legal, its about securing the integrity of the process.
as far as suppressing voices of the people... where you at on facebook and other SM censoring conservative opinions and letting liberals say anything they want? I am just kidding, dont bother with that one. (honestly, I say as a business owner its their right)
but if you want to talk about disenfranchising voters and suppression, what about those that dont trust the process, especially in light of the irregularities of the last election, there was a shitload more than 21 million Americans that didnt/dont trust that shit show, especially with all the maneuvering that has been done to fight attempts to review the results. I guarantee you that if the results were the opposite and it was the conservatives that were screaming its over.... its done,... what ever, your mind would be exploding. ( i am not saying I think there is a smoking gun to be found, just that as long as there is a large number that do, I think the investigations should take place specifically for the reasons you said.. to avoid a large segment of the population from saying WTF and turning more towards a dark form of govt structure and we end up with more WACOS, and RUBY RIDGES.)
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
An ACLU fact sheet from May 2017 claims that 21 million Americans do not have a government-issued photo ID, citing a 2006 survey from the Brennan Center for Justice. About 11 percent of the 987 voting-age American citizens surveyed said that they did not have a current, unexpired government-issued photo ID. Eleven percent of the adult citizen population in the 2000 Census amounts to 21 million Americans.
Good to know the source. So a survey of less than 1000 people. and 11 percent didn't have a "CURRENT ID". So your entire premise is bullshit.
Thanks for stepping up and admitting it.
It happens.
The Invisibles: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID - The Washington Post
Patricia Brown couldn’t prove her identity. On a Saturday morning in May last year, she rushed into the basement of Washington’s Foundry United Methodist Church, frantic that she would miss its I.D. Ministry hours. She took deep breaths as she reached the bright-yellow room crowded with narrow tables, where people sat poring over papers. Without valid identification, she couldn’t get housing or work, her food stamps or medication. She sat in a metal chair beside me, wiping away sweat from her forehead. The volunteer across from us looked concerned as Brown reviewed an intake checklist: Social Security card? No. Birth certificate? No. ID? Expired.
“So, we don’t have anything?” the volunteer asked. No. Nothing.
I’d seen situations like Brown’s many times. I volunteered at the I.D. Ministry from January 2015 to March 2016. Two Saturday mornings a month, I would help the ministry’s poor or homeless clients navigate the bureaucracy of acquiring government identification. For most people, replacing a lost driver’s license or other ID is an inconvenience but not an ordeal. For Foundry’s clients, however, the path to an ID is more like a high-stakes test of endurance and resourcefulness.
Brown, 61, a former receptionist, had taken three buses from Northeast Washington to the church at 16th and P streets NW, but it was clear she had been on a longer journey. After her mother’s death in April 2014, Brown lost the apartment they had shared. She returned from the grocery store one day to find her belongings on the sidewalk. She had been evicted.
“I tried to ... salvage what I could, but I was by myself,” she said. Her Social Security card and birth certificate were among the things lost that day. Since then, she had been floating from couch to couch among acquaintances, paying her hosts what she could and trying not to overstay her welcome. When I asked about her current housing, she said only, “It’s not a good situation.”
Brown had spent a month visiting D.C. government agencies, looking for guidance on how to regain her identification without success. A nonprofit steered her to Foundry, where she hoped to secure the trinity of documents she needed: her birth certificate, a Social Security card and a valid, government-issued photo ID. Like many of the other people who visit Foundry, she was, by the time she arrived, frustrated and desperate.
Washington isn’t the only place where acquiring identification can be difficult. As of 2006, according to New York University’s Brennan Center for Justice, up to 11 percent of U.S. adults had no government-provided photo ID. Since then, federal requirements for IDs have grown tougher, contributing to a loop that can help keep people trapped in poverty. For poor Americans, IDs are a lifeline — a key to unlocking services and opportunities, from housing to jobs to education. And in states with strict voter ID laws, the lack of an ID can hinder voting. “This is a huge issue for people who are homeless and poor in general,” says Maria Foscarinis, executive director of the National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty. “Without an ID, basically you don’t exist.”
The Rev. Ben Roberts, Foundry’s director of social justice ministries, oversees its ID operation. When he took over the nearly two-decades-old program in 2013, he renamed it Imago Dei, Latin for “image of God.” Tall and bearded, the 31-year-old has a skepticism of government efficiency that’s rooted in experience. Without obstacles, the ID process could take about two weeks, but for many clients, he says, it lasts two to three months. “It mostly has to do with finding the time, energy and motivation to go to places and be told, ‘No,’ constantly,” he explains.
For Roberts, identification is a moral and religious issue. “If you’re not allowed to have a job because you don’t have an ID, then that’s a serious theological problem,” he argues. “You’ve said not only do they not exist on paper, you’re denying them their piece of the image of God.”
That Saturday, though, she listened as the volunteer described what the District would require for an ID. First, a person like Brown who had no documents would need a physical exam and a signed medical record. (There was a free clinic in Adams Morgan.) The signed medical record would allow her to get a Social Security card, which would be mailed to her within two weeks. She would then have to take the card and a Foundry check for $23 to the District’s Vital Records office to get her birth certificate. Vital Records could issue it based on the card alone, but the office reserves the right for its staff to request more documents to establish identity. Without a valid photo ID, the office recommends three original documents, among them: census records, probation papers, voter registration and an employee ID. Once she had the Social Security card and birth certificate, then she could go to the Department of Motor Vehicles. The DMV requires proof of residency. Utility bills, leases and mortgages count among the qualifying documents. Without one in her name, Brown would need her host to supply a document to the DMV, with a photocopy of a valid ID and a signed form allowing Brown to claim the address. Otherwise, Brown would have to visit one of a handful of approved nonprofits or the D.C. Department of Human Services to be certified as homeless. Only then could she get her ID, which costs $20, and which Foundry also covers.
Brown rested her head on her fist. “I remember a time when it was real easy to do this,” she said. The volunteer nodded in commiseration and handed Brown a proof-of-residency form. Brown said, her voice trembling, “You’ll probably have to go through the homeless verification process.” She left with two envelopes full of instructions, forms and checks.
More at link in beginning of post. There is a lot more in the article but it's long. Still worth the read, though. Just because you don't know anyone like this or can't imagine this life, it doesn't mean there aren't Americans who are in this situation.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ Nichelle said:
Why ??????
Texas Permitless Carry Bill On Way To Gov. Greg Abbott’s Desk – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (cbslocal.com)
AUSTIN, Texas (CBSDFW.COM/AP) – Texas is poised to remove one of its last gun restrictions after lawmakers approved allowing people to carry handguns without a license, and the background check and training that go with it.
The Texas Senate approved the measure on Monday, May 24 (after the Texas House passed its version on Sunday), sending it to Gov. Greg Abbott, who has said he will sign it despite the objections of law enforcement groups who say it would endanger the public and police.
Gun control groups also oppose the measure, noting the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a church in Sutherland Springs, and a high school outside Houston, though each of those attacks, the assailants primarily used assault-style rifles, not handguns.
Texas currently has more than 1.6 million handgun license holders.
Supporters of the bill say it would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public while abolishing unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to bear arms.
Once signed into law, Texas will join nearly two dozen other states that allow some form of unregulated carry of a handgun.
Texas already allows rifles to be carried in public without a license.
The measure sent to Abbott would allow anyone age 21 or older to carry a handgun as long as they don’t have violent crime convictions or some other legal prohibition in their background.
But there would be no way to weed them out without the state background check currently in the licensing process.
The bill would not prevent businesses from banning guns on their property, and federal background checks for some gun purchases would remain in place.
Texas has no state restrictions on private gun sales.
Texas has allowed people to carry handguns since 1995, and has been reducing the cost and training requirements for getting a license for the last decade.
And how is their murder rate compared to, say Chicago.
I actually go along with Nichelle on this one, open carry is one thing, but concealed carry for all IMO will put police on an even higher sense of alert and possibly lead to more accidental shootings involving LEOs.
However SD went to constitutional carry a year or two ago and I really dont see or hear about anymore people carrying than before and we havent seen an issue with increased gun incidents. I have had my concealed carry for quite a while now so the thought of carrying a gun isnt a problem for me, nor most of my state as I know quite a few people that carry, including many women, actually I think I know more women than men that carry on a regular basis... but i degress, I can see this both as a positive and a negative.
Your statements don't quite line up. The first one is conjecture and feeling. The second is tied to actual results.
Constitutional carry is not going to drive up shootings. It will probably be a deterrent to violent crime. Most people that carry legally understand that this is a right that can be taken away if they get a felony. It changes how the person carrying acts in most situations.
the more people carrying, especially untrained people, the higher the likelihood of an armed person doing something they shouldnt in an encounter with a LEO and ending up dead. Its just a numbers game IMO. As a theory a well armed and well educated populous is a good thing and should lead to a safer America, I just dont have as much confidence in the well educated part. To many loop holes and break downs when it comes to people raising their kids to respect firearms, and to handle them properly.... a few years ago I had a drunk dick head at a house party pull his 45 on me as a joke... its those types that shouldnt be carrying under any circumstance, but they still will.
as far as driving up gun incidents, I am not just talking crime, I am also talking accidental shootings, it stands to reason that the more guns in public that the higher the likelihood of incidents with a negative outcome, the question will be is if with the higher amounts of guns in public will we see a drop off in mass shootings to offset the negatives of the accidents?
Yeah, I'm in favor of there being a minimum training standard. I CC but wont open carry after the 7/1 when you can in TN. I fear for some dipshit who gets scared by who knows what goes and buys a dirty harry "cool" handgun and never fires the thing because you can't but ammunition when democrats are in office.
i tried looking but couldnt see, is Texas open for both open and cc or just open carry?
No clue. I believe that TN is going to open carry no permit 7-1.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can anybody put out a good reason not to have a picture voter id requirement? You need IDs for literally everything else in the country but its to demanding for the right to vote? Make the argument please.
And therein lies your biggest problem: the common assumption conservatives make that everyone is, or at least should be, like them.
They should be white, employed, a driver, rural or suburban and they can't figure out why someone would not have, for example, a drivers license. That's just one form of ID but it's by far the most common.
Well not everyone is like that. Young, old, poor, minorities, urban dwellers who take transit don't always have drivers licenses. Other forms of ID perhaps, but not necessarily.
In an effective Democracy you want as many people to vote as possible. By enacting voter ID laws, millions of Americans would be unable to vote. And let's be honest. Everyone knows what this is about. It's obviously not about reducing the 16 of 16M fraud cases. We all know the vast majority of the voters it would disenfranchise are voters who vote democratic.
With that mind, let's hear your argument for it.
They don't buy alcohol? Or do any number of other things that require IDs? Yet they vote? I really find that a stretch. The young can't vote anyway, so that excuse is out the window.
The large elephant in the room is, of that vast majority of democratic voters, are they legal voters?
Who knows if they buy alcohol. I suspect many don't. We're talking about the elderly, inner-city folks who don't drive and take transit. You'd have to ask them why they don't have an ID, but 21M legal US citizens don't have a government issued ID. If you disenfranchise those folks and we no longer have an effective democracy.
Such a bullshit blue goggles response. I’m sure somewhere, somehow there is some disenfrachised poor poor black person who woulda coulda, shoulda voted democrat but I’m equally as convinced we’re also looking at just as many or more bullshit pro-democrat votes happening from voting twice or voting where they shouldnt be.
People without ID basically dont exist. You need an ID to doneverything. Its not just booze. Its smokes, banking of any type, driving, being employed. Not being employed. Collecting any type of Ss. Renting an appartment, owning a place. Pretty much if youre alive and have any desire to collect or disperse money you have an ID.
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