Quote: @greediron said:
@ Nichelle said:
Why ??????
Texas Permitless Carry Bill On Way To Gov. Greg Abbott’s Desk – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (cbslocal.com)
AUSTIN, Texas (CBSDFW.COM/AP) – Texas is poised to remove one of its last gun restrictions after lawmakers approved allowing people to carry handguns without a license, and the background check and training that go with it.
The Texas Senate approved the measure on Monday, May 24 (after the Texas House passed its version on Sunday), sending it to Gov. Greg Abbott, who has said he will sign it despite the objections of law enforcement groups who say it would endanger the public and police.
Gun control groups also oppose the measure, noting the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a church in Sutherland Springs, and a high school outside Houston, though each of those attacks, the assailants primarily used assault-style rifles, not handguns.
Texas currently has more than 1.6 million handgun license holders.
Supporters of the bill say it would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public while abolishing unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to bear arms.
Once signed into law, Texas will join nearly two dozen other states that allow some form of unregulated carry of a handgun.
Texas already allows rifles to be carried in public without a license.
The measure sent to Abbott would allow anyone age 21 or older to carry a handgun as long as they don’t have violent crime convictions or some other legal prohibition in their background.
But there would be no way to weed them out without the state background check currently in the licensing process.
The bill would not prevent businesses from banning guns on their property, and federal background checks for some gun purchases would remain in place.
Texas has no state restrictions on private gun sales.
Texas has allowed people to carry handguns since 1995, and has been reducing the cost and training requirements for getting a license for the last decade.
And how is their murder rate compared to, say Chicago.
I actually go along with Nichelle on this one, open carry is one thing, but concealed carry for all IMO will put police on an even higher sense of alert and possibly lead to more accidental shootings involving LEOs. However SD went to constitutional carry a year or two ago and I really dont see or hear about anymore people carrying than before and we havent seen an issue with increased gun incidents. I have had my concealed carry for quite a while now so the thought of carrying a gun isnt a problem for me, nor most of my state as I know quite a few people that carry, including many women, actually I think I know more women than men that carry on a regular basis... but i degress, I can see this both as a positive and a negative.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ Nichelle said:
Why ??????
Texas Permitless Carry Bill On Way To Gov. Greg Abbott’s Desk – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (cbslocal.com)
AUSTIN, Texas (CBSDFW.COM/AP) – Texas is poised to remove one of its last gun restrictions after lawmakers approved allowing people to carry handguns without a license, and the background check and training that go with it.
The Texas Senate approved the measure on Monday, May 24 (after the Texas House passed its version on Sunday), sending it to Gov. Greg Abbott, who has said he will sign it despite the objections of law enforcement groups who say it would endanger the public and police.
Gun control groups also oppose the measure, noting the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a church in Sutherland Springs, and a high school outside Houston, though each of those attacks, the assailants primarily used assault-style rifles, not handguns.
Texas currently has more than 1.6 million handgun license holders.
Supporters of the bill say it would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public while abolishing unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to bear arms.
Once signed into law, Texas will join nearly two dozen other states that allow some form of unregulated carry of a handgun.
Texas already allows rifles to be carried in public without a license.
The measure sent to Abbott would allow anyone age 21 or older to carry a handgun as long as they don’t have violent crime convictions or some other legal prohibition in their background.
But there would be no way to weed them out without the state background check currently in the licensing process.
The bill would not prevent businesses from banning guns on their property, and federal background checks for some gun purchases would remain in place.
Texas has no state restrictions on private gun sales.
Texas has allowed people to carry handguns since 1995, and has been reducing the cost and training requirements for getting a license for the last decade.
And how is their murder rate compared to, say Chicago.
Texas has a higher rate than Illinois, Texas 12.7 per 100k, 3,833 deaths vs Illinois 10.8, 1367.
The homicide rate is higher in Illinois 8.1 vs 5.9 in Texas per 100k.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ Nichelle said:
Why ??????
Texas Permitless Carry Bill On Way To Gov. Greg Abbott’s Desk – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (cbslocal.com)
AUSTIN, Texas (CBSDFW.COM/AP) – Texas is poised to remove one of its last gun restrictions after lawmakers approved allowing people to carry handguns without a license, and the background check and training that go with it.
The Texas Senate approved the measure on Monday, May 24 (after the Texas House passed its version on Sunday), sending it to Gov. Greg Abbott, who has said he will sign it despite the objections of law enforcement groups who say it would endanger the public and police.
Gun control groups also oppose the measure, noting the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a church in Sutherland Springs, and a high school outside Houston, though each of those attacks, the assailants primarily used assault-style rifles, not handguns.
Texas currently has more than 1.6 million handgun license holders.
Supporters of the bill say it would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public while abolishing unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to bear arms.
Once signed into law, Texas will join nearly two dozen other states that allow some form of unregulated carry of a handgun.
Texas already allows rifles to be carried in public without a license.
The measure sent to Abbott would allow anyone age 21 or older to carry a handgun as long as they don’t have violent crime convictions or some other legal prohibition in their background.
But there would be no way to weed them out without the state background check currently in the licensing process.
The bill would not prevent businesses from banning guns on their property, and federal background checks for some gun purchases would remain in place.
Texas has no state restrictions on private gun sales.
Texas has allowed people to carry handguns since 1995, and has been reducing the cost and training requirements for getting a license for the last decade.
And how is their murder rate compared to, say Chicago.
I actually go along with Nichelle on this one, open carry is one thing, but concealed carry for all IMO will put police on an even higher sense of alert and possibly lead to more accidental shootings involving LEOs.
However SD went to constitutional carry a year or two ago and I really dont see or hear about anymore people carrying than before and we havent seen an issue with increased gun incidents. I have had my concealed carry for quite a while now so the thought of carrying a gun isnt a problem for me, nor most of my state as I know quite a few people that carry, including many women, actually I think I know more women than men that carry on a regular basis... but i degress, I can see this both as a positive and a negative.
Your statements don't quite line up. The first one is conjecture and feeling. The second is tied to actual results.
Constitutional carry is not going to drive up shootings. It will probably be a deterrent to violent crime. Most people that carry legally understand that this is a right that can be taken away if they get a felony. It changes how the person carrying acts in most situations.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ Nichelle said:
Why ??????
Texas Permitless Carry Bill On Way To Gov. Greg Abbott’s Desk – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (cbslocal.com)
AUSTIN, Texas (CBSDFW.COM/AP) – Texas is poised to remove one of its last gun restrictions after lawmakers approved allowing people to carry handguns without a license, and the background check and training that go with it.
The Texas Senate approved the measure on Monday, May 24 (after the Texas House passed its version on Sunday), sending it to Gov. Greg Abbott, who has said he will sign it despite the objections of law enforcement groups who say it would endanger the public and police.
Gun control groups also oppose the measure, noting the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a church in Sutherland Springs, and a high school outside Houston, though each of those attacks, the assailants primarily used assault-style rifles, not handguns.
Texas currently has more than 1.6 million handgun license holders.
Supporters of the bill say it would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public while abolishing unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to bear arms.
Once signed into law, Texas will join nearly two dozen other states that allow some form of unregulated carry of a handgun.
Texas already allows rifles to be carried in public without a license.
The measure sent to Abbott would allow anyone age 21 or older to carry a handgun as long as they don’t have violent crime convictions or some other legal prohibition in their background.
But there would be no way to weed them out without the state background check currently in the licensing process.
The bill would not prevent businesses from banning guns on their property, and federal background checks for some gun purchases would remain in place.
Texas has no state restrictions on private gun sales.
Texas has allowed people to carry handguns since 1995, and has been reducing the cost and training requirements for getting a license for the last decade.
And how is their murder rate compared to, say Chicago.
I actually go along with Nichelle on this one, open carry is one thing, but concealed carry for all IMO will put police on an even higher sense of alert and possibly lead to more accidental shootings involving LEOs.
However SD went to constitutional carry a year or two ago and I really dont see or hear about anymore people carrying than before and we havent seen an issue with increased gun incidents. I have had my concealed carry for quite a while now so the thought of carrying a gun isnt a problem for me, nor most of my state as I know quite a few people that carry, including many women, actually I think I know more women than men that carry on a regular basis... but i degress, I can see this both as a positive and a negative.
Your statements don't quite line up. The first one is conjecture and feeling. The second is tied to actual results.
Constitutional carry is not going to drive up shootings. It will probably be a deterrent to violent crime. Most people that carry legally understand that this is a right that can be taken away if they get a felony. It changes how the person carrying acts in most situations.
the more people carrying, especially untrained people, the higher the likelihood of an armed person doing something they shouldnt in an encounter with a LEO and ending up dead. Its just a numbers game IMO. As a theory a well armed and well educated populous is a good thing and should lead to a safer America, I just dont have as much confidence in the well educated part. To many loop holes and break downs when it comes to people raising their kids to respect firearms, and to handle them properly.... a few years ago I had a drunk dick head at a house party pull his 45 on me as a joke... its those types that shouldnt be carrying under any circumstance, but they still will.
as far as driving up gun incidents, I am not just talking crime, I am also talking accidental shootings, it stands to reason that the more guns in public that the higher the likelihood of incidents with a negative outcome, the question will be is if with the higher amounts of guns in public will we see a drop off in mass shootings to offset the negatives of the accidents?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ Nichelle said:
Why ??????
Texas Permitless Carry Bill On Way To Gov. Greg Abbott’s Desk – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (cbslocal.com)
AUSTIN, Texas (CBSDFW.COM/AP) – Texas is poised to remove one of its last gun restrictions after lawmakers approved allowing people to carry handguns without a license, and the background check and training that go with it.
The Texas Senate approved the measure on Monday, May 24 (after the Texas House passed its version on Sunday), sending it to Gov. Greg Abbott, who has said he will sign it despite the objections of law enforcement groups who say it would endanger the public and police.
Gun control groups also oppose the measure, noting the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a church in Sutherland Springs, and a high school outside Houston, though each of those attacks, the assailants primarily used assault-style rifles, not handguns.
Texas currently has more than 1.6 million handgun license holders.
Supporters of the bill say it would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public while abolishing unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to bear arms.
Once signed into law, Texas will join nearly two dozen other states that allow some form of unregulated carry of a handgun.
Texas already allows rifles to be carried in public without a license.
The measure sent to Abbott would allow anyone age 21 or older to carry a handgun as long as they don’t have violent crime convictions or some other legal prohibition in their background.
But there would be no way to weed them out without the state background check currently in the licensing process.
The bill would not prevent businesses from banning guns on their property, and federal background checks for some gun purchases would remain in place.
Texas has no state restrictions on private gun sales.
Texas has allowed people to carry handguns since 1995, and has been reducing the cost and training requirements for getting a license for the last decade.
And how is their murder rate compared to, say Chicago.
I actually go along with Nichelle on this one, open carry is one thing, but concealed carry for all IMO will put police on an even higher sense of alert and possibly lead to more accidental shootings involving LEOs.
However SD went to constitutional carry a year or two ago and I really dont see or hear about anymore people carrying than before and we havent seen an issue with increased gun incidents. I have had my concealed carry for quite a while now so the thought of carrying a gun isnt a problem for me, nor most of my state as I know quite a few people that carry, including many women, actually I think I know more women than men that carry on a regular basis... but i degress, I can see this both as a positive and a negative.
Your statements don't quite line up. The first one is conjecture and feeling. The second is tied to actual results.
Constitutional carry is not going to drive up shootings. It will probably be a deterrent to violent crime. Most people that carry legally understand that this is a right that can be taken away if they get a felony. It changes how the person carrying acts in most situations.
the more people carrying, especially untrained people, the higher the likelihood of an armed person doing something they shouldnt in an encounter with a LEO and ending up dead. Its just a numbers game IMO. As a theory a well armed and well educated populous is a good thing and should lead to a safer America, I just dont have as much confidence in the well educated part. To many loop holes and break downs when it comes to people raising their kids to respect firearms, and to handle them properly.... a few years ago I had a drunk dick head at a house party pull his 45 on me as a joke... its those types that shouldnt be carrying under any circumstance, but they still will.
as far as driving up gun incidents, I am not just talking crime, I am also talking accidental shootings, it stands to reason that the more guns in public that the higher the likelihood of incidents with a negative outcome, the question will be is if with the higher amounts of guns in public will we see a drop off in mass shootings to offset the negatives of the accidents?
Yeah, I'm in favor of there being a minimum training standard. I CC but wont open carry after the 7/1 when you can in TN. I fear for some dipshit who gets scared by who knows what goes and buys a dirty harry "cool" handgun and never fires the thing because you can't but ammunition when democrats are in office.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ Nichelle said:
Why ??????
Texas Permitless Carry Bill On Way To Gov. Greg Abbott’s Desk – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (cbslocal.com)
AUSTIN, Texas (CBSDFW.COM/AP) – Texas is poised to remove one of its last gun restrictions after lawmakers approved allowing people to carry handguns without a license, and the background check and training that go with it.
The Texas Senate approved the measure on Monday, May 24 (after the Texas House passed its version on Sunday), sending it to Gov. Greg Abbott, who has said he will sign it despite the objections of law enforcement groups who say it would endanger the public and police.
Gun control groups also oppose the measure, noting the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a church in Sutherland Springs, and a high school outside Houston, though each of those attacks, the assailants primarily used assault-style rifles, not handguns.
Texas currently has more than 1.6 million handgun license holders.
Supporters of the bill say it would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public while abolishing unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to bear arms.
Once signed into law, Texas will join nearly two dozen other states that allow some form of unregulated carry of a handgun.
Texas already allows rifles to be carried in public without a license.
The measure sent to Abbott would allow anyone age 21 or older to carry a handgun as long as they don’t have violent crime convictions or some other legal prohibition in their background.
But there would be no way to weed them out without the state background check currently in the licensing process.
The bill would not prevent businesses from banning guns on their property, and federal background checks for some gun purchases would remain in place.
Texas has no state restrictions on private gun sales.
Texas has allowed people to carry handguns since 1995, and has been reducing the cost and training requirements for getting a license for the last decade.
And how is their murder rate compared to, say Chicago.
I actually go along with Nichelle on this one, open carry is one thing, but concealed carry for all IMO will put police on an even higher sense of alert and possibly lead to more accidental shootings involving LEOs.
However SD went to constitutional carry a year or two ago and I really dont see or hear about anymore people carrying than before and we havent seen an issue with increased gun incidents. I have had my concealed carry for quite a while now so the thought of carrying a gun isnt a problem for me, nor most of my state as I know quite a few people that carry, including many women, actually I think I know more women than men that carry on a regular basis... but i degress, I can see this both as a positive and a negative.
Your statements don't quite line up. The first one is conjecture and feeling. The second is tied to actual results.
Constitutional carry is not going to drive up shootings. It will probably be a deterrent to violent crime. Most people that carry legally understand that this is a right that can be taken away if they get a felony. It changes how the person carrying acts in most situations.
the more people carrying, especially untrained people, the higher the likelihood of an armed person doing something they shouldnt in an encounter with a LEO and ending up dead. Its just a numbers game IMO. As a theory a well armed and well educated populous is a good thing and should lead to a safer America, I just dont have as much confidence in the well educated part. To many loop holes and break downs when it comes to people raising their kids to respect firearms, and to handle them properly.... a few years ago I had a drunk dick head at a house party pull his 45 on me as a joke... its those types that shouldnt be carrying under any circumstance, but they still will.
as far as driving up gun incidents, I am not just talking crime, I am also talking accidental shootings, it stands to reason that the more guns in public that the higher the likelihood of incidents with a negative outcome, the question will be is if with the higher amounts of guns in public will we see a drop off in mass shootings to offset the negatives of the accidents?
Yeah, I'm in favor of there being a minimum training standard. I CC but wont open carry after the 7/1 when you can in TN. I fear for some dipshit who gets scared by who knows what goes and buys a dirty harry "cool" handgun and never fires the thing because you can't but ammunition when democrats are in office.
i tried looking but couldnt see, is Texas open for both open and cc or just open carry?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ Nichelle said:
Why ??????
Texas Permitless Carry Bill On Way To Gov. Greg Abbott’s Desk – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (cbslocal.com)
AUSTIN, Texas (CBSDFW.COM/AP) – Texas is poised to remove one of its last gun restrictions after lawmakers approved allowing people to carry handguns without a license, and the background check and training that go with it.
The Texas Senate approved the measure on Monday, May 24 (after the Texas House passed its version on Sunday), sending it to Gov. Greg Abbott, who has said he will sign it despite the objections of law enforcement groups who say it would endanger the public and police.
Gun control groups also oppose the measure, noting the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a church in Sutherland Springs, and a high school outside Houston, though each of those attacks, the assailants primarily used assault-style rifles, not handguns.
Texas currently has more than 1.6 million handgun license holders.
Supporters of the bill say it would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public while abolishing unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to bear arms.
Once signed into law, Texas will join nearly two dozen other states that allow some form of unregulated carry of a handgun.
Texas already allows rifles to be carried in public without a license.
The measure sent to Abbott would allow anyone age 21 or older to carry a handgun as long as they don’t have violent crime convictions or some other legal prohibition in their background.
But there would be no way to weed them out without the state background check currently in the licensing process.
The bill would not prevent businesses from banning guns on their property, and federal background checks for some gun purchases would remain in place.
Texas has no state restrictions on private gun sales.
Texas has allowed people to carry handguns since 1995, and has been reducing the cost and training requirements for getting a license for the last decade.
And how is their murder rate compared to, say Chicago.
I actually go along with Nichelle on this one, open carry is one thing, but concealed carry for all IMO will put police on an even higher sense of alert and possibly lead to more accidental shootings involving LEOs.
However SD went to constitutional carry a year or two ago and I really dont see or hear about anymore people carrying than before and we havent seen an issue with increased gun incidents. I have had my concealed carry for quite a while now so the thought of carrying a gun isnt a problem for me, nor most of my state as I know quite a few people that carry, including many women, actually I think I know more women than men that carry on a regular basis... but i degress, I can see this both as a positive and a negative.
Your statements don't quite line up. The first one is conjecture and feeling. The second is tied to actual results.
Constitutional carry is not going to drive up shootings. It will probably be a deterrent to violent crime. Most people that carry legally understand that this is a right that can be taken away if they get a felony. It changes how the person carrying acts in most situations.
the more people carrying, especially untrained people, the higher the likelihood of an armed person doing something they shouldnt in an encounter with a LEO and ending up dead. Its just a numbers game IMO. As a theory a well armed and well educated populous is a good thing and should lead to a safer America, I just dont have as much confidence in the well educated part. To many loop holes and break downs when it comes to people raising their kids to respect firearms, and to handle them properly.... a few years ago I had a drunk dick head at a house party pull his 45 on me as a joke... its those types that shouldnt be carrying under any circumstance, but they still will.
as far as driving up gun incidents, I am not just talking crime, I am also talking accidental shootings, it stands to reason that the more guns in public that the higher the likelihood of incidents with a negative outcome, the question will be is if with the higher amounts of guns in public will we see a drop off in mass shootings to offset the negatives of the accidents?
If an untrained person tries to draw a concealed weapon on a cop, the only person that will be dead is the untrained person. So what is the worry?
Having a drunk moron pull a gun isn't going to change because the law changed. An idiot that carries while drunk is already breaking the law, is he not? Just like the recent shooting that was in a gun free zone, some how we need more gun laws?
You can't outlaw idiots and you can't outlaw criminals. Gun laws affect the law abiding.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ Nichelle said:
Why ??????
Texas Permitless Carry Bill On Way To Gov. Greg Abbott’s Desk – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (cbslocal.com)
AUSTIN, Texas (CBSDFW.COM/AP) – Texas is poised to remove one of its last gun restrictions after lawmakers approved allowing people to carry handguns without a license, and the background check and training that go with it.
The Texas Senate approved the measure on Monday, May 24 (after the Texas House passed its version on Sunday), sending it to Gov. Greg Abbott, who has said he will sign it despite the objections of law enforcement groups who say it would endanger the public and police.
Gun control groups also oppose the measure, noting the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a church in Sutherland Springs, and a high school outside Houston, though each of those attacks, the assailants primarily used assault-style rifles, not handguns.
Texas currently has more than 1.6 million handgun license holders.
Supporters of the bill say it would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public while abolishing unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to bear arms.
Once signed into law, Texas will join nearly two dozen other states that allow some form of unregulated carry of a handgun.
Texas already allows rifles to be carried in public without a license.
The measure sent to Abbott would allow anyone age 21 or older to carry a handgun as long as they don’t have violent crime convictions or some other legal prohibition in their background.
But there would be no way to weed them out without the state background check currently in the licensing process.
The bill would not prevent businesses from banning guns on their property, and federal background checks for some gun purchases would remain in place.
Texas has no state restrictions on private gun sales.
Texas has allowed people to carry handguns since 1995, and has been reducing the cost and training requirements for getting a license for the last decade.
And how is their murder rate compared to, say Chicago.
I actually go along with Nichelle on this one, open carry is one thing, but concealed carry for all IMO will put police on an even higher sense of alert and possibly lead to more accidental shootings involving LEOs.
However SD went to constitutional carry a year or two ago and I really dont see or hear about anymore people carrying than before and we havent seen an issue with increased gun incidents. I have had my concealed carry for quite a while now so the thought of carrying a gun isnt a problem for me, nor most of my state as I know quite a few people that carry, including many women, actually I think I know more women than men that carry on a regular basis... but i degress, I can see this both as a positive and a negative.
Your statements don't quite line up. The first one is conjecture and feeling. The second is tied to actual results.
Constitutional carry is not going to drive up shootings. It will probably be a deterrent to violent crime. Most people that carry legally understand that this is a right that can be taken away if they get a felony. It changes how the person carrying acts in most situations.
the more people carrying, especially untrained people, the higher the likelihood of an armed person doing something they shouldnt in an encounter with a LEO and ending up dead. Its just a numbers game IMO. As a theory a well armed and well educated populous is a good thing and should lead to a safer America, I just dont have as much confidence in the well educated part. To many loop holes and break downs when it comes to people raising their kids to respect firearms, and to handle them properly.... a few years ago I had a drunk dick head at a house party pull his 45 on me as a joke... its those types that shouldnt be carrying under any circumstance, but they still will.
as far as driving up gun incidents, I am not just talking crime, I am also talking accidental shootings, it stands to reason that the more guns in public that the higher the likelihood of incidents with a negative outcome, the question will be is if with the higher amounts of guns in public will we see a drop off in mass shootings to offset the negatives of the accidents?
If an untrained person tries to draw a concealed weapon on a cop, the only person that will be dead is the untrained person. So what is the worry?
Having a drunk moron pull a gun isn't going to change because the law changed. An idiot that carries while drunk is already breaking the law, is he not? Just like the recent shooting that was in a gun free zone, some how we need more gun laws?
You can't outlaw idiots and you can't outlaw criminals. Gun laws affect the law abiding.
I am not talking about them trying to pull the gun, I am talking about an already jittery cop seeing a gun and the person being stopped makes an innocent, but ill advised, move that is construed as a threat and becoming dead as a result of it. yes its on the victim as the cops senses the movement as a threat, but the lack of training going along with these open laws IMO makes the situation ripe for disaster... which will have a negative blow back on the gun industry and the second amendment.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ Nichelle said:
Why ??????
Texas Permitless Carry Bill On Way To Gov. Greg Abbott’s Desk – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (cbslocal.com)
AUSTIN, Texas (CBSDFW.COM/AP) – Texas is poised to remove one of its last gun restrictions after lawmakers approved allowing people to carry handguns without a license, and the background check and training that go with it.
The Texas Senate approved the measure on Monday, May 24 (after the Texas House passed its version on Sunday), sending it to Gov. Greg Abbott, who has said he will sign it despite the objections of law enforcement groups who say it would endanger the public and police.
Gun control groups also oppose the measure, noting the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a church in Sutherland Springs, and a high school outside Houston, though each of those attacks, the assailants primarily used assault-style rifles, not handguns.
Texas currently has more than 1.6 million handgun license holders.
Supporters of the bill say it would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public while abolishing unnecessary impediments to the constitutional right to bear arms.
Once signed into law, Texas will join nearly two dozen other states that allow some form of unregulated carry of a handgun.
Texas already allows rifles to be carried in public without a license.
The measure sent to Abbott would allow anyone age 21 or older to carry a handgun as long as they don’t have violent crime convictions or some other legal prohibition in their background.
But there would be no way to weed them out without the state background check currently in the licensing process.
The bill would not prevent businesses from banning guns on their property, and federal background checks for some gun purchases would remain in place.
Texas has no state restrictions on private gun sales.
Texas has allowed people to carry handguns since 1995, and has been reducing the cost and training requirements for getting a license for the last decade.
And how is their murder rate compared to, say Chicago.
I actually go along with Nichelle on this one, open carry is one thing, but concealed carry for all IMO will put police on an even higher sense of alert and possibly lead to more accidental shootings involving LEOs.
However SD went to constitutional carry a year or two ago and I really dont see or hear about anymore people carrying than before and we havent seen an issue with increased gun incidents. I have had my concealed carry for quite a while now so the thought of carrying a gun isnt a problem for me, nor most of my state as I know quite a few people that carry, including many women, actually I think I know more women than men that carry on a regular basis... but i degress, I can see this both as a positive and a negative.
Your statements don't quite line up. The first one is conjecture and feeling. The second is tied to actual results.
Constitutional carry is not going to drive up shootings. It will probably be a deterrent to violent crime. Most people that carry legally understand that this is a right that can be taken away if they get a felony. It changes how the person carrying acts in most situations.
the more people carrying, especially untrained people, the higher the likelihood of an armed person doing something they shouldnt in an encounter with a LEO and ending up dead. Its just a numbers game IMO. As a theory a well armed and well educated populous is a good thing and should lead to a safer America, I just dont have as much confidence in the well educated part. To many loop holes and break downs when it comes to people raising their kids to respect firearms, and to handle them properly.... a few years ago I had a drunk dick head at a house party pull his 45 on me as a joke... its those types that shouldnt be carrying under any circumstance, but they still will.
as far as driving up gun incidents, I am not just talking crime, I am also talking accidental shootings, it stands to reason that the more guns in public that the higher the likelihood of incidents with a negative outcome, the question will be is if with the higher amounts of guns in public will we see a drop off in mass shootings to offset the negatives of the accidents?
If an untrained person tries to draw a concealed weapon on a cop, the only person that will be dead is the untrained person. So what is the worry?
Having a drunk moron pull a gun isn't going to change because the law changed. An idiot that carries while drunk is already breaking the law, is he not? Just like the recent shooting that was in a gun free zone, some how we need more gun laws?
You can't outlaw idiots and you can't outlaw criminals. Gun laws affect the law abiding.
I am not talking about them trying to pull the gun, I am talking about an already jittery cop seeing a gun and the person being stopped makes an innocent, but ill advised, move that is construed as a threat and becoming dead as a result of it. yes its on the victim as the cops senses the movement as a threat, but the lack of training going along with these open laws IMO makes the situation ripe for disaster... which will have a negative blow back on the gun industry and the second amendment.
Back up, you were talking about concealed carry, not open carry.
The need for training rests upon the person buying and carrying, no one else. That is what individual freedom means, there are responsibilities that go along with a right. But other people's right should not be infringed because someone else fails to be responsible.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can anybody put out a good reason not to have a picture voter id requirement? You need IDs for literally everything else in the country but its to demanding for the right to vote? Make the argument please.
And therein lies your biggest problem: the common assumption conservatives make that everyone is, or at least should be, like them.
They should be white, employed, a driver, rural or suburban and they can't figure out why someone would not have, for example, a drivers license. That's just one form of ID but it's by far the most common.
Well not everyone is like that. Young, old, poor, minorities, urban dwellers who take transit don't always have drivers licenses. Other forms of ID perhaps, but not necessarily.
In an effective Democracy you want as many people to vote as possible. By enacting voter ID laws, millions of Americans would be unable to vote. And let's be honest. Everyone knows what this is about. It's obviously not about reducing the 16 of 16M fraud cases. We all know the vast majority of the voters it would disenfranchise are voters who vote democratic.
With that mind, let's hear your argument for it.
They don't buy alcohol? Or do any number of other things that require IDs? Yet they vote? I really find that a stretch. The young can't vote anyway, so that excuse is out the window.
The large elephant in the room is, of that vast majority of democratic voters, are they legal voters?
Who knows if they buy alcohol. I suspect many don't. We're talking about the elderly, inner-city folks who don't drive and take transit. You'd have to ask them why they don't have an ID, but 21M legal US citizens don't have a government issued ID. If you disenfranchise those folks and we no longer have an effective democracy.
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