"Kate Upton has affair with Charlotte man"
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
"Kate Upton has affair with Charlotte man"
...."seen making out in pollen covered new truck".
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"Alex, I'll take NFW this happens for $1000"
Quote: @minny65 said:
We need a new LT and a Guard from this draft. I don't want to move O'Neil or Cleveland and I have no idea how our brass feels about moving anyone around. It has not worked out to well in our past but nothing has in terms of OL.
MY take: Sewell with a decent gap, then Slater and not much of a gap with Darrisaw. Slater has the edge over Darrisaw getting to the second level run blocking but Darrisaw has the arm length advantage in pass protection. But Slater is no slouch in pass pro, he has great hands and positioning. Darrisaw also played all 3 years and improved each year. There are some questions about Slater being a LT or a Guard where that is not a question with Darrisaw.
My nightmare scenario for round 1 is that all 3 of these guys are gone before our pick and we settle on AVT who is a Guard. I want a LT in round 1. I think we can find a Guard in the later rounds. I have an interest in the Christensen (BYU). Played LT but doesn't have the length to play T in the NFL. A lot of his workout numbers are very similar to Ezra from last year, not Better then Ezra, but similar. I had to get that in there Would really like one of the Big 3 at #14 and the BYU kid with one of our 4th rounders.
Last I looked we have 1 pick in Top 77...
I am in no way setting the bar at picking up a starting LT and OG in one draft. Lightening doesn't strike Vikings OL choices in that way.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
We need a new LT and a Guard from this draft. I don't want to move O'Neil or Cleveland and I have no idea how our brass feels about moving anyone around. It has not worked out to well in our past but nothing has in terms of OL.
MY take: Sewell with a decent gap, then Slater and not much of a gap with Darrisaw. Slater has the edge over Darrisaw getting to the second level run blocking but Darrisaw has the arm length advantage in pass protection. But Slater is no slouch in pass pro, he has great hands and positioning. Darrisaw also played all 3 years and improved each year. There are some questions about Slater being a LT or a Guard where that is not a question with Darrisaw.
My nightmare scenario for round 1 is that all 3 of these guys are gone before our pick and we settle on AVT who is a Guard. I want a LT in round 1. I think we can find a Guard in the later rounds. I have an interest in the Christensen (BYU). Played LT but doesn't have the length to play T in the NFL. A lot of his workout numbers are very similar to Ezra from last year, not Better then Ezra, but similar. I had to get that in there Would really like one of the Big 3 at #14 and the BYU kid with one of our 4th rounders.
Totally agree about Christensen. I keep thinking what am I missing here? I can't figure out why everyone keeps listing him as tackle. 32 inch arms don't play tackle in the NFL. He'll be a guard.
OK, so now you have a guard who's 6-5, 302, runs a 4.89 forty and has some of the best pass blocking numbers in football: Lowest QB pressure % allowed by an OT since 2014:
Brady Christensen, 2020 - 0.8%.
Biggest problem with Christensen is his age. He'll be 25 in September. Vikings like young players.
I hear you about Spelly and age but I think every situation is different and this is one of them based upon the following:
So we get a great 10 year run from a guy age 25-35 instead of a guy 22-32. I guess age is a factor in terms of wear and tear but IMO we aren't talking about a 1st or 2nd rounder where every nuance matters. Also the position he plays is a factor as well. He did a 2 year mission as a Mormon so there was no wear. If we can get Christensen in the fourth round, where less then 10% ever become a starter, does age really matter?
I see through this entire thread the O-line is the biggest point of emphasis, which is no surprise. But I think everyone needs to look at things objectively vs. emotionally. Yes the offensive line is important but there is a lot more to unpack here.
1. Lets take a look at the starting depth chart last season and how it compared to others and how the Vikings offense faired with that line compared to their peers.
LT - Riley Reiff (71.4 PFF)
LG - Dakota Dozier (44.6 PFF)
C - Garrett Bradbury (61.4 PFF)
RG - Ezra Cleveland (66.2 PFF)
RT - Brian O'Neil (78.0 PFF)
Although PFF grades are inexact and I am not separating run vs. pass the Vikings line consisted of 3 average starters, 1 above average starter, and 1 bottom 1/3 guard. Since the line is always a sum of its parts the average PFF grade for a Vikings O-lineman was 64.32. Could it be better, yes. But that is surprisingly the 13th best line in the NFL by average PFF scoring.
2. Progressing forward the Vikings have lost Riley Reiff this off-season but where do they stand with their replacements?
LT - Rashod Hill (63.0 PFF)
LG - Mason Cole (54.4 PFF)
C - Garrett Bradbury (61.4 PFF)
RG - Ezra Cleveland (66.2 PFF)
RT - Brian O'Neil (78.0 PFF)
I averaged out Rashod Hill's grade since he hasn't been a consistent starter and took Cole's overall grade vs. his splits between center/guard (where he was better). Average those out and not surprisingly with Dozier not sinking their average score the average of the PFF scores in 64.6. So yes in this vacuum I've created the Vikings line is not substantially worse than last season and there are inklings to suggest it could be improved. The issue with this look is that it doesn't address depth and or player contracts. E.G. Hill isn't a long-term replacement at LT.
Ultimately what I am trying to dispel is this image of a burning dumpster fire. The Vikings offensive line even as it stands today is not in the bottom 1/3 of the NFL which is probably shocking to some. The media and perspective that the Vikings did nothing along the line drive that opinion. Remember that a team short on cap space did not trade a pick for Mason Cole and his salary with the expectation he'd be a depth piece. Rashod Hill is also not a slouch and could start at either tackle spot and be effective. Remember he played well during the 2017 playoff run.
What all this ultimately brings me back to is the idea that they don't HAVE to go O-line in round 1. Sure being able to grab an OT makes plenty of sense if it works out but there isn't a gun being held to their head. They can improve the line and it deserves further investment but its not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.
Quote: @minny65 said:
We need a new LT and a Guard from this draft. I don't want to move O'Neil or Cleveland and I have no idea how our brass feels about moving anyone around. It has not worked out to well in our past but nothing has in terms of OL.
MY take: Sewell with a decent gap, then Slater and not much of a gap with Darrisaw. Slater has the edge over Darrisaw getting to the second level run blocking but Darrisaw has the arm length advantage in pass protection. But Slater is no slouch in pass pro, he has great hands and positioning. Darrisaw also played all 3 years and improved each year. There are some questions about Slater being a LT or a Guard where that is not a question with Darrisaw.
My nightmare scenario for round 1 is that all 3 of these guys are gone before our pick and we settle on AVT who is a Guard. I want a LT in round 1. I think we can find a Guard in the later rounds. I have an interest in the Christensen (BYU). Played LT but doesn't have the length to play T in the NFL. A lot of his workout numbers are very similar to Ezra from last year, not Better then Ezra, but similar. I had to get that in there Would really like one of the Big 3 at #14 and the BYU kid with one of our 4th rounders.
"I think we can find a Guard in the later rounds" Did Rick pay you to write this? Go back and look at the starting offensive lines since Hutchinson in 2011 and see how well that strategy has worked out for us. I disagree with you that we would be "settling" if we picked AVT at 14. He is consistently ranked inside the Top 15 overall prospects in this draft. Your nightmare scenario will very likely become reality on draft day as Darrisaw seems to be gaining momentum and moving up draft boards with his measurables. I'd much rather have a Pro Bowl Guard in AVT than taking my chances with the second tier tackles in this draft thinking they will be effective day 1 starters. None of them are worth the #14 pick so unless you can execute a trade down what is your contingency plan to draft a starting Left Tackle? I don't disagree that moving OLineman around has not worked out well, but when we took O'Neill, he was supposed to be our LT project that needed time to build up his body and add bulk/strength. He got to play much earlier than expected and really excelled at RT his rookie year. He has the physical traits and athleticism to be an excellent LT in the NFL. He has had time to work on his body, and is a proven commodity unlike the prospects in this draft. My bet is that he also wants the money that goes along with being a LT and will lobby to make the change on his own as he will be a free agent after this season. Two Rookie Oline starters when we don't have a second round pick is a lot to expect out of this draft which is why I'm open to moving the assets we have to other positions to fill our needs.
The #Dolphins and Washington Football Team are in agreement on a trade to send guard Ereck Flowers to WFT in a deal involving a swap of late-round picks, sources say. The deal is being finalized. Frees up some money for Miami, while giving Washington an OL to compete to start.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ minny65 said:
We need a new LT and a Guard from this draft. I don't want to move O'Neil or Cleveland and I have no idea how our brass feels about moving anyone around. It has not worked out to well in our past but nothing has in terms of OL.
MY take: Sewell with a decent gap, then Slater and not much of a gap with Darrisaw. Slater has the edge over Darrisaw getting to the second level run blocking but Darrisaw has the arm length advantage in pass protection. But Slater is no slouch in pass pro, he has great hands and positioning. Darrisaw also played all 3 years and improved each year. There are some questions about Slater being a LT or a Guard where that is not a question with Darrisaw.
My nightmare scenario for round 1 is that all 3 of these guys are gone before our pick and we settle on AVT who is a Guard. I want a LT in round 1. I think we can find a Guard in the later rounds. I have an interest in the Christensen (BYU). Played LT but doesn't have the length to play T in the NFL. A lot of his workout numbers are very similar to Ezra from last year, not Better then Ezra, but similar. I had to get that in there Would really like one of the Big 3 at #14 and the BYU kid with one of our 4th rounders.
"I think we can find a Guard in the later rounds" Did Rick pay you to write this? Go back and look at the starting offensive lines since Hutchinson in 2011 and see how well that strategy has worked out for us. I disagree with you that we would be "settling" if we picked AVT at 14. He is consistently ranked inside the Top 15 overall prospects in this draft. Your nightmare scenario will very likely become reality on draft day as Darrisaw seems to be gaining momentum and moving up draft boards with his measurables. I'd much rather have a Pro Bowl Guard in AVT than taking my chances with the second tier tackles in this draft thinking they will be effective day 1 starters. None of them are worth the #14 pick so unless you can execute a trade down what is your contingency plan to draft a starting Left Tackle? I don't disagree that moving OLineman around has not worked out well, but when we took O'Neill, he was supposed to be our LT project that needed time to build up his body and add bulk/strength. He got to play much earlier than expected and really excelled at RT his rookie year. He has the physical traits and athleticism to be an excellent LT in the NFL. He has had time to work on his body, and is a proven commodity unlike the prospects in this draft. My bet is that he also wants the money that goes along with being a LT and will lobby to make the change on his own as he will be a free agent after this season. Two Rookie Oline starters when we don't have a second round pick is a lot to expect out of this draft which is why I'm open to moving the assets we have to other positions to fill our needs.
Bad guards matter and impact you negatively. Average guards through the top 3 at the position are all the same at the end of the day. Don't spend high draft capital on guards unless they're Quenton Nelson, Brandon Scherff, or Zach Martin.
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