Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Nichelle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Nichelle said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Skodin said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
JUST IN: NYPD have arrested a man carrying an AK-47, a backpack full of ammo, and a gas mask in a subway station in Times Square.
'Murcia!
dumb fuck thought it was ok to bring an AK47 into manhattan from Ohio as long as the ammo was separate. Bullshit on that. no one is that dumb. This clown was up to no good
btw no mention of the fedex massacre in this thread. I guess we are cool with this shit happening every month in America.
I mentioned it, but not by name. I believe today is also the anniversary of the VaTech massacre. I've said it before, after Sandy Hook, it was apparent this country was never going to do a fucking thing about this shit.
That was my sentiment as well. When little white children are slaughtered with no resulting change, it's damn near hopeless.
I guess they didnt have that white privilege we hear so much about.
Privilege does not mean that no harm or suffering shall touch one's life. But I kind of think you know that already.
If sandy hook would have been a shot up school full of black kids and there was a similar response the story would have been that its because they weren't white kids. Most the time color has nothing to do with the results, not all the time, but contrary to the news we are fed today color of skin is not always the driving factor for an action or lack of action.
I think we can both be correct here. It is not always the driving factor, that's true. However, I think we'd be willfully ignorant to ignore its influence. The reason I believe it's a factor is, as an example, due to data on the way white children and black children are covered. And you can blame a favorite target, the media. But that same media also operates in a way that gets them the best ratings.
For example the rates of BIPOC missing children is higher yet the media coverage would seem to be fixated on white children. I'll reference a study that showed that although black children make up 35% of missing children, they only made up 7% of the media references. That's what I mean here. Reality is that coverage and many times, the way people are viewed is influenced by racial factors.
And yes, when Sandy Hook happened, I really thought it would drive some sort of change. Young white children are simply covered differently. The recent shooting of the Chicago child was represented by Sean Hannity as the shooting of a 'young 13 year old man'. While Kyle Rittenhouse was described on the same network as a 'little boy'. Despite what you might think, I don't look for the factor of race in everything. But we live in a world where it does exist. And not acknowledging its existence isn't just giving the benefit of the doubt, it's giving approval that it's okay. It's not.
Quote: @Nichelle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Nichelle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Nichelle said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Skodin said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
JUST IN: NYPD have arrested a man carrying an AK-47, a backpack full of ammo, and a gas mask in a subway station in Times Square.
'Murcia!
dumb fuck thought it was ok to bring an AK47 into manhattan from Ohio as long as the ammo was separate. Bullshit on that. no one is that dumb. This clown was up to no good
btw no mention of the fedex massacre in this thread. I guess we are cool with this shit happening every month in America.
I mentioned it, but not by name. I believe today is also the anniversary of the VaTech massacre. I've said it before, after Sandy Hook, it was apparent this country was never going to do a fucking thing about this shit.
That was my sentiment as well. When little white children are slaughtered with no resulting change, it's damn near hopeless.
I guess they didnt have that white privilege we hear so much about.
Privilege does not mean that no harm or suffering shall touch one's life. But I kind of think you know that already.
If sandy hook would have been a shot up school full of black kids and there was a similar response the story would have been that its because they weren't white kids. Most the time color has nothing to do with the results, not all the time, but contrary to the news we are fed today color of skin is not always the driving factor for an action or lack of action.
I think we can both be correct here. It is not always the driving factor, that's true. However, I think we'd be willfully ignorant to ignore its influence. The reason I believe it's a factor is, as an example, due to data on the way white children and black children are covered. And you can blame a favorite target, the media. But that same media also operates in a way that gets them the best ratings.
For example the rates of BIPOC missing children is higher yet the media coverage would seem to be fixated on white children. I'll reference a study that showed that although black children make up 35% of missing children, they only made up 7% of the media references. That's what I mean here. Reality is that coverage and many times, the way people are viewed is influenced by racial factors.
And yes, when Sandy Hook happened, I really thought it would drive some sort of change. Young white children are simply covered differently. The recent shooting of the Chicago child was represented by Sean Hannity as the shooting of a 'young 13 year old man'. While Kyle Rittenhouse was described on the same network as a 'little boy'. Despite what you might think, I don't look for the factor of race in everything. But we live in a world where it does exist. And not acknowledging its existence isn't just giving the benefit of the doubt, it's giving approval that it's okay. It's not.
But I think its been used far to often for far to many things and the importance and progress of a racial equality movement has suffered as a result.
In the case of missing children, maybe its not their skin color but perhaps another factor driving the disproportionate coverage, like level of wealth or geography?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Nichelle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Nichelle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Nichelle said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Skodin said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
JUST IN: NYPD have arrested a man carrying an AK-47, a backpack full of ammo, and a gas mask in a subway station in Times Square.
'Murcia!
dumb fuck thought it was ok to bring an AK47 into manhattan from Ohio as long as the ammo was separate. Bullshit on that. no one is that dumb. This clown was up to no good
btw no mention of the fedex massacre in this thread. I guess we are cool with this shit happening every month in America.
I mentioned it, but not by name. I believe today is also the anniversary of the VaTech massacre. I've said it before, after Sandy Hook, it was apparent this country was never going to do a fucking thing about this shit.
That was my sentiment as well. When little white children are slaughtered with no resulting change, it's damn near hopeless.
I guess they didnt have that white privilege we hear so much about.
Privilege does not mean that no harm or suffering shall touch one's life. But I kind of think you know that already.
If sandy hook would have been a shot up school full of black kids and there was a similar response the story would have been that its because they weren't white kids. Most the time color has nothing to do with the results, not all the time, but contrary to the news we are fed today color of skin is not always the driving factor for an action or lack of action.
I think we can both be correct here. It is not always the driving factor, that's true. However, I think we'd be willfully ignorant to ignore its influence. The reason I believe it's a factor is, as an example, due to data on the way white children and black children are covered. And you can blame a favorite target, the media. But that same media also operates in a way that gets them the best ratings.
For example the rates of BIPOC missing children is higher yet the media coverage would seem to be fixated on white children. I'll reference a study that showed that although black children make up 35% of missing children, they only made up 7% of the media references. That's what I mean here. Reality is that coverage and many times, the way people are viewed is influenced by racial factors.
And yes, when Sandy Hook happened, I really thought it would drive some sort of change. Young white children are simply covered differently. The recent shooting of the Chicago child was represented by Sean Hannity as the shooting of a 'young 13 year old man'. While Kyle Rittenhouse was described on the same network as a 'little boy'. Despite what you might think, I don't look for the factor of race in everything. But we live in a world where it does exist. And not acknowledging its existence isn't just giving the benefit of the doubt, it's giving approval that it's okay. It's not.
But I think its been used far to often for far to many things and the importance and progress of a racial equality movement has suffered as a result.
In the case of missing children, maybe its not their skin color but perhaps another factor driving the disproportionate coverage, like level of wealth or geography?
___________________________________________________________
(Editing for clarity since the quote function isn't quite working)
My response: If the movement is truly important (and it is), I don't think it suffers. But I understand that our opinions differ there. The study that I referenced was national. But there are certainly connections between causes. After all, at the time of MLK Jr's death, he focused on wealth disparity and poverty. So, let's say that wealth is a part of it. Even today, the average wealth of a black person with a college degree is less than a white person with a high school diploma. Unacceptable. And how does that happen? There are many reasons, but a lot of them are rooted in racism.
This example gave me a pretty good feeling on a wrong being righted:
A Black family's beach property in California was taken during the Jim Crow era. The county is now giving it back, and it's worth millions (cbs58.com)
That is where the notion of privilege comes from. It's not saying that white people don't have challenges. And there are plenty of examples of individuals who have been dealt a tough hand. As a whole, however, there are differences in experiences among races that result in measurable and material differences in results.
For more, check out redlining and the generational impact that had on black families, opportunity and wealth. Look at the GI bill and the amazing opportunity it created for white soldiers in the areas of education that was not equally available to black soldiers. Education should be the great equalizer. But, that's not what happened. Again, no one is saying those white families didn't work, go to college, pay their way and build a foundation. What you hear is that those same opportunities were not distributed equally.
It's a complicated subject.
Quote: @Nichelle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Nichelle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Nichelle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Nichelle said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Skodin said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
JUST IN: NYPD have arrested a man carrying an AK-47, a backpack full of ammo, and a gas mask in a subway station in Times Square.
'Murcia!
dumb fuck thought it was ok to bring an AK47 into manhattan from Ohio as long as the ammo was separate. Bullshit on that. no one is that dumb. This clown was up to no good
btw no mention of the fedex massacre in this thread. I guess we are cool with this shit happening every month in America.
I mentioned it, but not by name. I believe today is also the anniversary of the VaTech massacre. I've said it before, after Sandy Hook, it was apparent this country was never going to do a fucking thing about this shit.
That was my sentiment as well. When little white children are slaughtered with no resulting change, it's damn near hopeless.
I guess they didnt have that white privilege we hear so much about.
Privilege does not mean that no harm or suffering shall touch one's life. But I kind of think you know that already.
If sandy hook would have been a shot up school full of black kids and there was a similar response the story would have been that its because they weren't white kids. Most the time color has nothing to do with the results, not all the time, but contrary to the news we are fed today color of skin is not always the driving factor for an action or lack of action.
I think we can both be correct here. It is not always the driving factor, that's true. However, I think we'd be willfully ignorant to ignore its influence. The reason I believe it's a factor is, as an example, due to data on the way white children and black children are covered. And you can blame a favorite target, the media. But that same media also operates in a way that gets them the best ratings.
For example the rates of BIPOC missing children is higher yet the media coverage would seem to be fixated on white children. I'll reference a study that showed that although black children make up 35% of missing children, they only made up 7% of the media references. That's what I mean here. Reality is that coverage and many times, the way people are viewed is influenced by racial factors.
And yes, when Sandy Hook happened, I really thought it would drive some sort of change. Young white children are simply covered differently. The recent shooting of the Chicago child was represented by Sean Hannity as the shooting of a 'young 13 year old man'. While Kyle Rittenhouse was described on the same network as a 'little boy'. Despite what you might think, I don't look for the factor of race in everything. But we live in a world where it does exist. And not acknowledging its existence isn't just giving the benefit of the doubt, it's giving approval that it's okay. It's not.
But I think its been used far to often for far to many things and the importance and progress of a racial equality movement has suffered as a result.
In the case of missing children, maybe its not their skin color but perhaps another factor driving the disproportionate coverage, like level of wealth or geography?
___________________________________________________________
(Editing for clarity since the quote function isn't quite working)
My response: If the movement is truly important (and it is), I don't think it suffers. But I understand that our opinions differ there. The study that I referenced was national. But there are certainly connections between causes. After all, at the time of MLK Jr's death, he focused on wealth disparity and poverty. So, let's say that wealth is a part of it. Even today, the average wealth of a black person with a college degree is less than a white person with a high school diploma. Unacceptable. And how does that happen? There are many reasons, but a lot of them are rooted in racism.
This example gave me a pretty good feeling on a wrong being righted:
A Black family's beach property in California was taken during the Jim Crow era. The county is now giving it back, and it's worth millions (cbs58.com)
That is where the notion of privilege comes from. It's not saying that white people don't have challenges. And there are plenty of examples of individuals who have been dealt a tough hand. As a whole, however, there are differences in experiences among races that result in measurable and material differences in results.
For more, check out redlining and the generational impact that had on black families, opportunity and wealth. Look at the GI bill and the amazing opportunity it created for white soldiers in the areas of education that was not equally available to black soldiers. Education should be the great equalizer. But, that's not what happened. Again, no one is saying those white families didn't work, go to college, pay their way and build a foundation. What you hear is that those same opportunities were not distributed equally.
It's a complicated subject.
There's no denying disparity in the past, but how much of it is still relevant today vs people using past transgressions as excuses for today's shortcomings?
I've heard high school dropouts crying about the poor education systems in poverty sticker areas, but thats not an excuse for them not finishing. ( thats not a race thing, it's something I've heard from all races but it gets brought up at when talking about why we see generation after generation failing to rise out of poverty, yet they don't finish high school and end up living in shit, angry at the world.)
Quote:
When it comes to foundational wealth, the past 100% has an impact on today. I'm not talking about using it as an excuse. Personally, I worked my ass off to get where I am today. My father grew up in poverty. But I was lucky enough that he worked hard enough to move our family from a violent inner city to a suburb. I had an opportunity for an education without having to live in fear. And I went in to my career with the knowledge that I was going to have to simply be better, always. I remember working together with someone and consistently getting better results; not subjective, but objective data driven results. I would then see an email from our vice president congratulating my white, male counterpart on his achievements. WTF. Unseen. That was mild. I spent my early years at GM. Oh, the stories I have of being a young, black woman in an old, white male dominated company. And when I changed careers, I went to a company where there was no one who looked like me in a position of power or influence. Breaking down walls and attempting to gain entry into that network was a daily grind. And it was a grind that my counterparts did not have to do.
Imagine running that race to make up ground and then when you point it out, someone looks at you and thinks you have victim mentality. If people don't think inequality exists *today*, then those same people will push back against efforts to address it. Even in the article I posted there are people voicing objection to giving back land that was STOLEN from that black family because the people in that town today 'aren't racist'. That stuff happened in the past, right? Well, look at the impact it had on that family. Just fix it.
Anyway, we live in a society where money matters and creates opportunity. The wealth gap that exist is inexcusable. It shouldn't be hard to see the straight line between the disparities that created that gap resulting in the uneven playing field and results we see today.
Is that everything? No. Like I said, it's a complicated issue that deserves more than the typical 'You're racist.' and 'Don't dare call me racist' diatribe. It also deserves deeper examination than 'Why can't they just do better?'
Ugh.. I have typed way too much.
@ Nichelle Thanks for sharing that. My wife and both daughters are in STEM careers and that is tough enough on them. In my experiences during my career I have witnessed a racial inequality in the engineering field. I had the luxury of being able to choose the direction of my career, I was able to take bigger swings without having to be successful every time and not having to be concerned about being being cut. It's a subtle thing, little "coded" insinuations in project update reports, informal questions about teammates from Mgrs. The closet I can say I have come to any type of discrimination has been academic, my BSEE is from UCF not Michigan or Berkeley, or being the American on multi-national projects ( being a prima donna). And I believe that is nothing compared to what Person Of Color would have to walk through, I did not have to think every day I am white and have to have a strategy to offset that, I could focus on the task at hand and f#ck the rest, that's as free as I ever feel. I wish people would listen to what it's like to know you will have to be better than others to be treated the same.
I appreciate you @ BigAl99. That's exactly it! It shouldn't be classified as white guilt or being ashamed of being white. It's simply looking with a broader view and seeing the playing field through the eyes of others.
And once you see it, I think it's hard to unsee. Voices like yours matter. It does my heart and my mental health good to not be the one harping on the topic all of the time. Real change only happens when those who benefit, who enjoy that freedom that you mentioned, who are in the room when coded language is used choose to speak up. That's when change happens.
Until then, I am always willing to have the conversation. My favorite quote:
“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends”. – Martin Luther King, Jr.
(I'm not sure how we got here on this thread but so be it)
Hey, another one. Murica!
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
Hey, another one. Murica!
We could do this every day. I think I read 147 so far this year.
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