Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ greediron said:
@ BigAl99 said:
No it's not open, Tobin just used the Oxygen hemoglobin saturation level, which was not new, just overlooked by the defense. He also just pointed out scientific journals, that he had referenced in prior testimony, relevant lung volume/size and larynx constriction, which the Fowler said he couldn't find. There were 4 points of rebuttal and the new test for carbon monoxide, kind of cool listening to the Judge go over what could and couldn't be admitted Listened to the whole thing got a shot of Moderna yesterday and just listening to stuff I usually don't
I am admittedly not a legal geek, so I have no idea. Just saw that the judge upheld the objection by the defense and then the prosecution basically went that way anyway. The O2 sat level wasn't new, but wasn't made available to the defense earlier. Again, I have no idea. But a mistrial probably isn't a good option.
The O2 saturation level was on the coroner report, the carbon monoxide, CO wasn't, it was 1.5%. Fowler had asserted 10% to 13% CO yesterday. The examiner heard that and called the prosecutor last night to say that CO was not requested by the Emergency room staff for the report, but that data existed as a CO value. Defense objected that they hadn't received that information till 8 am and their expert had high tailed it out of town. The Judge agreed and said they couldn't reference any of the "new" results and if the prosecution intimated to the Jury there were additional information report he would declare a mistrial. So when Dr. Tobin said the O2 saturation was 98%, which was already presented, that would leave a maximum of 2% CO shown by the evidence, had he said 1.5% it would have been declared misstrial.
The prosecution was also given leeway on the heart size, because of the defense experts referencing multiples scales for normal and enlarged with out clarifying, but they didn't correct that. I think Tobin was the most likeable of the two and it was good to get him out in front of the Jury last.
I’m with greed here. I havent watched any of the trial. If you died of asphyxiation shouldnt your O2 be low? Pretty sure some of my elderly clients start to need oxygen when the get in the mid to low 90s.
Thats been my question through this. We all learned with covid that blood o2 levels aren't really concerning until lower 90s so being in the high 90s suggests that his lungs were diffusing enough oxygen doesn't it?
This stuff is just too familiar. Now there is talk if mistrial for what ever reason.
The core issue seems to have been successfully sidestepped- that a police officer deprived someone from oxygen for over 9 minutes.
"We" have managed to change the discussion to a far crazy hypothetical.
Like I said on the Daunte Wright thread... when that goes to court I would expect the arguement that he died because he crashed his car into another and not because of the gun shot and then people will need to know more about the accident before making a decision.
What is on display here is the classic example of how people get cheated by the system in the name of "beyond reasonable doubt". That is very subjective yet no one cares. There is reasonabke doubt when you have the right backing/profile.
Floyd and Daunte will have their pasts analyzed and picked apart like it had anything to do with how they were killed. Some will see no fault with that because "they need to know more" a classic move to taint the subject. But its their right. They are merely leveraging what the system gave them.
You know who has not been put under the microscope here? Chauvin. The one who is actually on trial for killing someone.
We are now facing the potential of a mistrial because of CO2 levels.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ greediron said:
@ BigAl99 said:
No it's not open, Tobin just used the Oxygen hemoglobin saturation level, which was not new, just overlooked by the defense. He also just pointed out scientific journals, that he had referenced in prior testimony, relevant lung volume/size and larynx constriction, which the Fowler said he couldn't find. There were 4 points of rebuttal and the new test for carbon monoxide, kind of cool listening to the Judge go over what could and couldn't be admitted Listened to the whole thing got a shot of Moderna yesterday and just listening to stuff I usually don't
I am admittedly not a legal geek, so I have no idea. Just saw that the judge upheld the objection by the defense and then the prosecution basically went that way anyway. The O2 sat level wasn't new, but wasn't made available to the defense earlier. Again, I have no idea. But a mistrial probably isn't a good option.
The O2 saturation level was on the coroner report, the carbon monoxide, CO wasn't, it was 1.5%. Fowler had asserted 10% to 13% CO yesterday. The examiner heard that and called the prosecutor last night to say that CO was not requested by the Emergency room staff for the report, but that data existed as a CO value. Defense objected that they hadn't received that information till 8 am and their expert had high tailed it out of town. The Judge agreed and said they couldn't reference any of the "new" results and if the prosecution intimated to the Jury there were additional information report he would declare a mistrial. So when Dr. Tobin said the O2 saturation was 98%, which was already presented, that would leave a maximum of 2% CO shown by the evidence, had he said 1.5% it would have been declared misstrial.
The prosecution was also given leeway on the heart size, because of the defense experts referencing multiples scales for normal and enlarged with out clarifying, but they didn't correct that. I think Tobin was the most likeable of the two and it was good to get him out in front of the Jury last.
I’m with greed here. I havent watched any of the trial. If you died of asphyxiation shouldnt your O2 be low? Pretty sure some of my elderly clients start to need oxygen when the get in the mid to low 90s.
Thats been my question through this. We all learned with covid that blood o2 levels aren't really concerning until lower 90s so being in the high 90s suggests that his lungs were diffusing enough oxygen doesn't it?
Flow was restricted and lung volume was decreased. The O2 reading is how well his lungs were processing, not the amount. I guess, I don't know, you think they all got it wrong?
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ greediron said:
@ BigAl99 said:
No it's not open, Tobin just used the Oxygen hemoglobin saturation level, which was not new, just overlooked by the defense. He also just pointed out scientific journals, that he had referenced in prior testimony, relevant lung volume/size and larynx constriction, which the Fowler said he couldn't find. There were 4 points of rebuttal and the new test for carbon monoxide, kind of cool listening to the Judge go over what could and couldn't be admitted Listened to the whole thing got a shot of Moderna yesterday and just listening to stuff I usually don't
I am admittedly not a legal geek, so I have no idea. Just saw that the judge upheld the objection by the defense and then the prosecution basically went that way anyway. The O2 sat level wasn't new, but wasn't made available to the defense earlier. Again, I have no idea. But a mistrial probably isn't a good option.
The O2 saturation level was on the coroner report, the carbon monoxide, CO wasn't, it was 1.5%. Fowler had asserted 10% to 13% CO yesterday. The examiner heard that and called the prosecutor last night to say that CO was not requested by the Emergency room staff for the report, but that data existed as a CO value. Defense objected that they hadn't received that information till 8 am and their expert had high tailed it out of town. The Judge agreed and said they couldn't reference any of the "new" results and if the prosecution intimated to the Jury there were additional information report he would declare a mistrial. So when Dr. Tobin said the O2 saturation was 98%, which was already presented, that would leave a maximum of 2% CO shown by the evidence, had he said 1.5% it would have been declared misstrial.
The prosecution was also given leeway on the heart size, because of the defense experts referencing multiples scales for normal and enlarged with out clarifying, but they didn't correct that. I think Tobin was the most likeable of the two and it was good to get him out in front of the Jury last.
I’m with greed here. I havent watched any of the trial. If you died of asphyxiation shouldnt your O2 be low? Pretty sure some of my elderly clients start to need oxygen when the get in the mid to low 90s.
Thats been my question through this. We all learned with covid that blood o2 levels aren't really concerning until lower 90s so being in the high 90s suggests that his lungs were diffusing enough oxygen doesn't it?
Flow was restricted and lung volume was decreased. The O2 reading is how well his lungs were processing, not the amount. I guess, I don't know, you think they all got it wrong?
did his blood volume decrease as well then? that would make sense if his O2 stats remained the same on reduced amounts of available O2, but since his blood volume was the same, and his 02 stats that are reported are just fine, is it a bad question to ask how that is possible when the contention is that he died because his body was starved of O2? Its just a question, no need to get pissy. I said from last summer that I questioned the position of the knee in relation to the neck, I thought it looked more like upper back area, which still would make breathing difficult, but that doesnt read as scary as on his neck. I have never said Chauvin was innocent, just was looking for answers to questions I would have if I was on a jury.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
It's really interesting to me that a topic about the George Floyd trial turns political and the last handful of posts are about predicting riots and discussing past riots. Not the facts of the case. Heck even some of the talk about the case are predictions Chauvin walks or people saying it doesn't matter what the evidence shows, the jurors will vote guilty to avoid rioting... I mean really?
I watched the video when this first happened. I'm still disgusted by the lack of empathy Chauvin had for a man pinned under his knee for 9 minutes. Regardless of what the defense puts out there or toxicology reports show, the cop did nothing to help him even after he was not moving for 3 minutes. Even if you don't believe this is racially motivated or don't believe he intended to murder Floyd, his actions directly led to his death. Chauvin could have gotten off of him at any time, sat him up, put him in the cop car, given him medical attention until the paramedics showed up... but he just disregarded a human's life and continued to kneel on the dude's neck.
That should appall anyone regardless of his skin color, criminal history, past (or present) drug use. Police officers are employed to protect and serve. I didn't see any protecting or serving in this particular case (and there was plenty of uninterrupted video evidence from witness cell phones, street cams, etc. so it's definitely not a situation of we have 5 secs of video with no context). Chauvin let him die right there on the street despite Floyd's pleadings and the crowd that witnessed it pleading for him to help him.
If that doesn't disturb you, I got nothing else to say here.
I've been thoroughly appalled and disgusted by the video, by the other 3 allowing it...that never changed.
However, that moment has almost been relegated to a footnote because of the widespread chaos that erupted...and so much of it was for drama and destruction, not for Floyd
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ greediron said:
@ BigAl99 said:
No it's not open, Tobin just used the Oxygen hemoglobin saturation level, which was not new, just overlooked by the defense. He also just pointed out scientific journals, that he had referenced in prior testimony, relevant lung volume/size and larynx constriction, which the Fowler said he couldn't find. There were 4 points of rebuttal and the new test for carbon monoxide, kind of cool listening to the Judge go over what could and couldn't be admitted Listened to the whole thing got a shot of Moderna yesterday and just listening to stuff I usually don't
I am admittedly not a legal geek, so I have no idea. Just saw that the judge upheld the objection by the defense and then the prosecution basically went that way anyway. The O2 sat level wasn't new, but wasn't made available to the defense earlier. Again, I have no idea. But a mistrial probably isn't a good option.
The O2 saturation level was on the coroner report, the carbon monoxide, CO wasn't, it was 1.5%. Fowler had asserted 10% to 13% CO yesterday. The examiner heard that and called the prosecutor last night to say that CO was not requested by the Emergency room staff for the report, but that data existed as a CO value. Defense objected that they hadn't received that information till 8 am and their expert had high tailed it out of town. The Judge agreed and said they couldn't reference any of the "new" results and if the prosecution intimated to the Jury there were additional information report he would declare a mistrial. So when Dr. Tobin said the O2 saturation was 98%, which was already presented, that would leave a maximum of 2% CO shown by the evidence, had he said 1.5% it would have been declared misstrial.
The prosecution was also given leeway on the heart size, because of the defense experts referencing multiples scales for normal and enlarged with out clarifying, but they didn't correct that. I think Tobin was the most likeable of the two and it was good to get him out in front of the Jury last.
I’m with greed here. I havent watched any of the trial. If you died of asphyxiation shouldnt your O2 be low? Pretty sure some of my elderly clients start to need oxygen when the get in the mid to low 90s.
Thats been my question through this. We all learned with covid that blood o2 levels aren't really concerning until lower 90s so being in the high 90s suggests that his lungs were diffusing enough oxygen doesn't it?
Flow was restricted and lung volume was decreased. The O2 reading is how well his lungs were processing, not the amount. I guess, I don't know, you think they all got it wrong?
did his blood volume decrease as well then? that would make sense if his O2 stats remained the same on reduced amounts of available O2, but since his blood volume was the same, and his 02 stats that are reported are just fine, is it a bad question to ask how that is possible when the contention is that he died because his body was starved of O2? Its just a question, no need to get pissy. I said from last summer that I questioned the position of the knee in relation to the neck, I thought it looked more like upper back area, which still would make breathing difficult, but that doesnt read as scary as on his neck. I have never said Chauvin was innocent, just was looking for answers to questions I would have if I was on a jury.
Don’t get all butt hurt, google how the respiratory system works and how and where O2 enters and leaves the blood. Go look at Tobin’s testimony, and the other attending physicians, it was layed out for the layman understand, its very informative. Check out the MMA fighter Donald Williams testimony about the blood choke maneuver. its all on youtube
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ greediron said:
@ BigAl99 said:
No it's not open, Tobin just used the Oxygen hemoglobin saturation level, which was not new, just overlooked by the defense. He also just pointed out scientific journals, that he had referenced in prior testimony, relevant lung volume/size and larynx constriction, which the Fowler said he couldn't find. There were 4 points of rebuttal and the new test for carbon monoxide, kind of cool listening to the Judge go over what could and couldn't be admitted Listened to the whole thing got a shot of Moderna yesterday and just listening to stuff I usually don't
I am admittedly not a legal geek, so I have no idea. Just saw that the judge upheld the objection by the defense and then the prosecution basically went that way anyway. The O2 sat level wasn't new, but wasn't made available to the defense earlier. Again, I have no idea. But a mistrial probably isn't a good option.
The O2 saturation level was on the coroner report, the carbon monoxide, CO wasn't, it was 1.5%. Fowler had asserted 10% to 13% CO yesterday. The examiner heard that and called the prosecutor last night to say that CO was not requested by the Emergency room staff for the report, but that data existed as a CO value. Defense objected that they hadn't received that information till 8 am and their expert had high tailed it out of town. The Judge agreed and said they couldn't reference any of the "new" results and if the prosecution intimated to the Jury there were additional information report he would declare a mistrial. So when Dr. Tobin said the O2 saturation was 98%, which was already presented, that would leave a maximum of 2% CO shown by the evidence, had he said 1.5% it would have been declared misstrial.
The prosecution was also given leeway on the heart size, because of the defense experts referencing multiples scales for normal and enlarged with out clarifying, but they didn't correct that. I think Tobin was the most likeable of the two and it was good to get him out in front of the Jury last.
I’m with greed here. I havent watched any of the trial. If you died of asphyxiation shouldnt your O2 be low? Pretty sure some of my elderly clients start to need oxygen when the get in the mid to low 90s.
Thats been my question through this. We all learned with covid that blood o2 levels aren't really concerning until lower 90s so being in the high 90s suggests that his lungs were diffusing enough oxygen doesn't it?
Flow was restricted and lung volume was decreased. The O2 reading is how well his lungs were processing, not the amount. I guess, I don't know, you think they all got it wrong?
did his blood volume decrease as well then? that would make sense if his O2 stats remained the same on reduced amounts of available O2, but since his blood volume was the same, and his 02 stats that are reported are just fine, is it a bad question to ask how that is possible when the contention is that he died because his body was starved of O2? Its just a question, no need to get pissy. I said from last summer that I questioned the position of the knee in relation to the neck, I thought it looked more like upper back area, which still would make breathing difficult, but that doesnt read as scary as on his neck. I have never said Chauvin was innocent, just was looking for answers to questions I would have if I was on a jury.
My adopted mother has pulmonary hypertension. Meaning her lungs do not properly process diffusing oxygen into her blood. Her O2 stats are in the tank (regularly under 90....mid 80s on bad days on O2) and she cannot exert herself doing anything. Climbing a stair or two is a challenge for a 65 year old. She has a hole in her heart that cannot be fixed and will die from the condition within the next few years.
Obviously Floyd and my other other Mom are not the same person or have the same condition or circumstances.
This is more then I understand about asphyxiation: https://www.tasanet.com/Knowledge-Center...phyxiation
I'd be genuinely curious if O2% is supposed to go down if you're breathing is being restricted? I know I get bad asthma when allergies or other type things hit and my O2 stats go down by a few percentage points.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
its all on youtube
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOOLOLOLLOOLOLLLOLLLOOOL
So is QAnon 
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ greediron said:
@ BigAl99 said:
No it's not open, Tobin just used the Oxygen hemoglobin saturation level, which was not new, just overlooked by the defense. He also just pointed out scientific journals, that he had referenced in prior testimony, relevant lung volume/size and larynx constriction, which the Fowler said he couldn't find. There were 4 points of rebuttal and the new test for carbon monoxide, kind of cool listening to the Judge go over what could and couldn't be admitted Listened to the whole thing got a shot of Moderna yesterday and just listening to stuff I usually don't
I am admittedly not a legal geek, so I have no idea. Just saw that the judge upheld the objection by the defense and then the prosecution basically went that way anyway. The O2 sat level wasn't new, but wasn't made available to the defense earlier. Again, I have no idea. But a mistrial probably isn't a good option.
The O2 saturation level was on the coroner report, the carbon monoxide, CO wasn't, it was 1.5%. Fowler had asserted 10% to 13% CO yesterday. The examiner heard that and called the prosecutor last night to say that CO was not requested by the Emergency room staff for the report, but that data existed as a CO value. Defense objected that they hadn't received that information till 8 am and their expert had high tailed it out of town. The Judge agreed and said they couldn't reference any of the "new" results and if the prosecution intimated to the Jury there were additional information report he would declare a mistrial. So when Dr. Tobin said the O2 saturation was 98%, which was already presented, that would leave a maximum of 2% CO shown by the evidence, had he said 1.5% it would have been declared misstrial.
The prosecution was also given leeway on the heart size, because of the defense experts referencing multiples scales for normal and enlarged with out clarifying, but they didn't correct that. I think Tobin was the most likeable of the two and it was good to get him out in front of the Jury last.
I’m with greed here. I havent watched any of the trial. If you died of asphyxiation shouldnt your O2 be low? Pretty sure some of my elderly clients start to need oxygen when the get in the mid to low 90s.
Thats been my question through this. We all learned with covid that blood o2 levels aren't really concerning until lower 90s so being in the high 90s suggests that his lungs were diffusing enough oxygen doesn't it?
Flow was restricted and lung volume was decreased. The O2 reading is how well his lungs were processing, not the amount. I guess, I don't know, you think they all got it wrong?
did his blood volume decrease as well then? that would make sense if his O2 stats remained the same on reduced amounts of available O2, but since his blood volume was the same, and his 02 stats that are reported are just fine, is it a bad question to ask how that is possible when the contention is that he died because his body was starved of O2? Its just a question, no need to get pissy. I said from last summer that I questioned the position of the knee in relation to the neck, I thought it looked more like upper back area, which still would make breathing difficult, but that doesnt read as scary as on his neck. I have never said Chauvin was innocent, just was looking for answers to questions I would have if I was on a jury.
My adopted mother has pulmonary hypertension. Meaning her lungs do not properly process diffusing oxygen into her blood. Her O2 stats are in the tank (regularly under 90....mid 80s on bad days on O2) and she cannot exert herself doing anything. Climbing a stair or two is a challenge for a 65 year old. She has a hole in her heart that cannot be fixed and will die from the condition within the next few years.
Obviously Floyd and my other other Mom are not the same person or have the same condition or circumstances.
This is more then I understand about asphyxiation: https://www.tasanet.com/Knowledge-Center...phyxiation
I'd be genuinely curious if O2% is supposed to go down if you're breathing is being restricted? I know I get bad asthma when allergies or other type things hit and my O2 stats go down by a few percentage points.
Got me dude, let us know when you find out. If you are really that curious, you would do more than ask random folks on a board to explain it to you. Looks like your adopted mother has problems getting sufficient oxygen into her blood. Do you really think that this is an error or oversite by the medical community or could it be that you may just not understand the all the ramifications of the autopsy and coroner report.
Post ten minute google search: I think it could be the sample with the 98% hemoglobin saturation is from an artery, which carries the oxygenated blood from the heart to the body. Veins carry oxygen depleted blood back to the heart. I was more into physics than biology, but as soon as I saw it I remembered.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ greediron said:
@ BigAl99 said:
No it's not open, Tobin just used the Oxygen hemoglobin saturation level, which was not new, just overlooked by the defense. He also just pointed out scientific journals, that he had referenced in prior testimony, relevant lung volume/size and larynx constriction, which the Fowler said he couldn't find. There were 4 points of rebuttal and the new test for carbon monoxide, kind of cool listening to the Judge go over what could and couldn't be admitted Listened to the whole thing got a shot of Moderna yesterday and just listening to stuff I usually don't
I am admittedly not a legal geek, so I have no idea. Just saw that the judge upheld the objection by the defense and then the prosecution basically went that way anyway. The O2 sat level wasn't new, but wasn't made available to the defense earlier. Again, I have no idea. But a mistrial probably isn't a good option.
The O2 saturation level was on the coroner report, the carbon monoxide, CO wasn't, it was 1.5%. Fowler had asserted 10% to 13% CO yesterday. The examiner heard that and called the prosecutor last night to say that CO was not requested by the Emergency room staff for the report, but that data existed as a CO value. Defense objected that they hadn't received that information till 8 am and their expert had high tailed it out of town. The Judge agreed and said they couldn't reference any of the "new" results and if the prosecution intimated to the Jury there were additional information report he would declare a mistrial. So when Dr. Tobin said the O2 saturation was 98%, which was already presented, that would leave a maximum of 2% CO shown by the evidence, had he said 1.5% it would have been declared misstrial.
The prosecution was also given leeway on the heart size, because of the defense experts referencing multiples scales for normal and enlarged with out clarifying, but they didn't correct that. I think Tobin was the most likeable of the two and it was good to get him out in front of the Jury last.
I’m with greed here. I havent watched any of the trial. If you died of asphyxiation shouldnt your O2 be low? Pretty sure some of my elderly clients start to need oxygen when the get in the mid to low 90s.
Thats been my question through this. We all learned with covid that blood o2 levels aren't really concerning until lower 90s so being in the high 90s suggests that his lungs were diffusing enough oxygen doesn't it?
Flow was restricted and lung volume was decreased. The O2 reading is how well his lungs were processing, not the amount. I guess, I don't know, you think they all got it wrong?
did his blood volume decrease as well then? that would make sense if his O2 stats remained the same on reduced amounts of available O2, but since his blood volume was the same, and his 02 stats that are reported are just fine, is it a bad question to ask how that is possible when the contention is that he died because his body was starved of O2? Its just a question, no need to get pissy. I said from last summer that I questioned the position of the knee in relation to the neck, I thought it looked more like upper back area, which still would make breathing difficult, but that doesnt read as scary as on his neck. I have never said Chauvin was innocent, just was looking for answers to questions I would have if I was on a jury.
My adopted mother has pulmonary hypertension. Meaning her lungs do not properly process diffusing oxygen into her blood. Her O2 stats are in the tank (regularly under 90....mid 80s on bad days on O2) and she cannot exert herself doing anything. Climbing a stair or two is a challenge for a 65 year old. She has a hole in her heart that cannot be fixed and will die from the condition within the next few years.
Obviously Floyd and my other other Mom are not the same person or have the same condition or circumstances.
This is more then I understand about asphyxiation: https://www.tasanet.com/Knowledge-Center...phyxiation
I'd be genuinely curious if O2% is supposed to go down if you're breathing is being restricted? I know I get bad asthma when allergies or other type things hit and my O2 stats go down by a few percentage points.
Got me dude, let us know when you find out. If you are really that curious, you would do more than ask random folks on a board to explain it to you. Looks like your adopted mother has problems getting sufficient oxygen into her blood. Do you really think that this is an error or oversite by the medical community or could it be that you may just not understand the all the ramifications of the autopsy and coroner report.
Post ten minute google search: I think it could be the sample with the 98% hemoglobin saturation is from an artery, which carries the oxygenated blood from the heart to the body. Veins carry oxygen depleted blood back to the heart. I was more into physics than biology, but as soon as I saw it I remembered.
Pretty sure I said above that I haven't spent much time on this thing. I haven't read the report. I don't know the ramifications of the autopsy or coroners report. I've also said cops generally get off and thats what I've based my entire line of thinking on since day one on this.
As for asking people on the internet. I thought that is what this website is about. Shooting the shit about the Vikings and other unrelated topics.
Sorry to have offended you. I'll do better next time. I'm just glad that we get to bask in your greatness. Thank you!!!
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