That's a big contract with the cap number still up in the air.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
That's a big contract with the cap number still up in the air.
Cap hit this year and next is modest. Goes up when cap due to go up in 2023. I think all contracts we see this year will be written that way, including Hunter's.
I'm surprised owners have not tried to implement some kind of "positional cap allocation", kind of like what they did with the rookie salary scale. Before that, we had rookies who had never played a snap in the NFL holding out and dictating ever-growing salaries. Owners would love a defined allocation, something like 15% of the cap for QB (combine starters and backups), 10% for RBs, etc.
NFLPA would hate it, probably. They only approved the rookie scale because no rookies vote. OTOH, it might result in better distribution of the salary to other positions.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
I'm surprised owners have not tried to implement some kind of "positional cap allocation", kind of like what they did with the rookie salary scale. Before that, we had rookies who had never played a snap in the NFL holding out and dictating ever-growing salaries. Owners would love a defined allocation, something like 15% of the cap for QB (combine starters and backups), 10% for RBs, etc.
NFLPA would hate it, probably. They only approved the rookie scale because no rookies vote. OTOH, it might result in better distribution of the salary to other positions.
I mentioned the same thing to a fried a few weeks back and we concluded that the NFLPA would likely not support. I think it does make sense though as it can potentially create more bargaining power between the players as these deals get renewed each year and the cap goes up. If you agree that your salary is 10% of the cap then it likely increases each year in your favor.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
That's the market. You either pay it or you take another seat at the world's worst-luck craps table. What's hard to believe isn't the contract; it's that they almost didn't pay it. It's like you actually WIN at the craps table and instead of banking your winnings, you put it all in on another throw.
This. Its how the QB game is played in the NFL. Fans react in horror over the contract but what was Dallas SUPPOSED to do? They could much more easily be stuck with a worse QB than Prescott than the odds of finding a better one. Look at Miami now: ready to give up on Tua already because they must see something. Could easily happen to Dallas if they moved on from Prescott.
But at least they would have had the cap to build a team around a not elite QB, now they have a not elite QB and no cap space to put a team around him to make up for his short comings, and with that much guaranteed they are likely stuck with thus decisions for 3 to 4 years.
I made the argument when the team went after Kirk, that his deal was to high for his production and would limit the teams ability to improve areas of need through FA, and here we are. Even the great and powerful Brez is stumbling with the weight of a real QB contract.. Now Dallas gets to try and figure out how to do the same and will likely meet the same fate.
Yes, you did make this argument, and you're still wrong.
What good is cap space if you don't have a QB capable of winning the Super Bowl? You don't need an "elite" QB to win a Super Bowl, but you do need one capable of winning in the NFL. And that's Dak Prescott. It's also KIrk Cousins. Good Christ, it's not like the Cowboys have Dak and nothing else. It's not like the Vikings have Cousins and nothing else. It's not like they don't also have Thielen, Jefferson, Cook, Hunter, Kendricks, Harry....
If the Vikings listened to you, we wouldn't have Hunter, or Cook, or Cousins. Oh but we'd have cap space!!! LOL.
once again pretty full of yourself,
who are these slightly above average QBs winning superbowls that are carrying top of market contracts. Go ahead, list them, I see a list of future HOFers ( at least one of which played with a below average contract and it looks like it worked out pretty good for him) a rookie contract or two, and a smattering of lower tier guys on cheap deals.
A team can get away with it for the first year, but once they have to start adding new contracts on top of that bad QB investment they start losing ground. and if they listened to me they would have Hunter and Cook, and likely several other positions improved over current skill levels, just not Cousins.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
I'm surprised owners have not tried to implement some kind of "positional cap allocation", kind of like what they did with the rookie salary scale. Before that, we had rookies who had never played a snap in the NFL holding out and dictating ever-growing salaries. Owners would love a defined allocation, something like 15% of the cap for QB (combine starters and backups), 10% for RBs, etc.
NFLPA would hate it, probably. They only approved the rookie scale because no rookies vote. OTOH, it might result in better distribution of the salary to other positions.
problem with that is you have teams that have better talent pools at different positions and they wouldnt be able to protect that talent. I am fine with the cap being the way it is, but GMs need to be smarter and be willing to let players walk that insist on contracts above their talent level. if other teams want to over pay let them, way more teams struggling because of bad contracts to QBs than winning despite those contracts.
I kinda like it, the cap is the constraint and what ever leadership does within those constraints can make or break a team or a season. Allows the ownership be a real variable, keeps things organic and not formulaic. Don't get me wrong, I believe players need to be taken care, careers are short and dangerous, but need to see the impact of good/poor management in the equation.
The sad part is that the Vikings could have easily drafted Dak in 2016.
They were soooo confident in their roster that Spielman traded #86 to the Dolphins for #186 and their 2017 3rd and 4th rounders.
He used #121 on Willie Beavers. Dak went #135.
He did turn #186 into David Morgan & Stephen Weatherly.
He used the 2017 4th from Miami to move up for Cook but could have stayed put for Kamara or Mixon
The rest of 2017 is too convoluted to detail but he traded down so much (past Kittle) it is not even worth mentioning.
Why do this review which some will call hindsight?
It shines a light on the current regimes disdain for using mid-round picks on QB depth no matter who is the starter.
I fear that they are "fat and happy" with Kork, Mannion, Browning, and Stanley.
I have doubts that they are truly interested in any of the top QBs although they have visited with Maj Jones, Ehlinger, & Book.
I know folks will say that they have Teddy and should not invest in the backup QB but I think that is a mistake.
The Patriots spent a 2nd on Jimmy G and a 3rd on Brissett even though they had the GOAT.
I'm just hoping the Vikings invest in a better backup QB and using mid-round picks to try and hit the lottery is not a bad idea.
It cant be worse than Clemmings, Beavers, Yankey, Samia, etc.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
That's the market. You either pay it or you take another seat at the world's worst-luck craps table. What's hard to believe isn't the contract; it's that they almost didn't pay it. It's like you actually WIN at the craps table and instead of banking your winnings, you put it all in on another throw.
This. Its how the QB game is played in the NFL. Fans react in horror over the contract but what was Dallas SUPPOSED to do? They could much more easily be stuck with a worse QB than Prescott than the odds of finding a better one. Look at Miami now: ready to give up on Tua already because they must see something. Could easily happen to Dallas if they moved on from Prescott.
But at least they would have had the cap to build a team around a not elite QB, now they have a not elite QB and no cap space to put a team around him to make up for his short comings, and with that much guaranteed they are likely stuck with thus decisions for 3 to 4 years.
I made the argument when the team went after Kirk, that his deal was to high for his production and would limit the teams ability to improve areas of need through FA, and here we are. Even the great and powerful Brez is stumbling with the weight of a real QB contract.. Now Dallas gets to try and figure out how to do the same and will likely meet the same fate.
As a Vike fan, not sure what the downside is unless it's a good gamble and Jerry hit's again.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
That's the market. You either pay it or you take another seat at the world's worst-luck craps table. What's hard to believe isn't the contract; it's that they almost didn't pay it. It's like you actually WIN at the craps table and instead of banking your winnings, you put it all in on another throw.
This. Its how the QB game is played in the NFL. Fans react in horror over the contract but what was Dallas SUPPOSED to do? They could much more easily be stuck with a worse QB than Prescott than the odds of finding a better one. Look at Miami now: ready to give up on Tua already because they must see something. Could easily happen to Dallas if they moved on from Prescott.
But at least they would have had the cap to build a team around a not elite QB, now they have a not elite QB and no cap space to put a team around him to make up for his short comings, and with that much guaranteed they are likely stuck with thus decisions for 3 to 4 years.
I made the argument when the team went after Kirk, that his deal was to high for his production and would limit the teams ability to improve areas of need through FA, and here we are. Even the great and powerful Brez is stumbling with the weight of a real QB contract.. Now Dallas gets to try and figure out how to do the same and will likely meet the same fate.
As a Vike fan, not sure what the downside is unless it's a good gamble and Jerry hit's again.
i dont give a shit either about other teams dumb decisions with their cap space (hell the best Vikings game I've ever been to was when Jerruhs box was straight across from my seats in 09 and I got to watch him go from party mode in the 1st quarter to sitting alone by the 4th) Dak is much like I view Cousins, with a top tier OL, and above average supporting cast he can help you win most games, but he is not in that tier of players that will get it done when the positions around him become cap casualties or other issues like injuries weaken his supporting cast IMO.
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