Quote: @Carl Knowles said:
@MaroonBells I agree. I hope Odenigbo comes backs.. but I can see another team giving up a 7th round pick and 1.5M to 2.5M for a low end starter.
Because Odenigbo didn't have the success I expected this season (3.5 sacks 3 TFL),.. it kind of hurts the Vikings ability to protect him IMO. Hercules Mata'afa (who moved to DE) and Jordan Bailford (who was added to the roster late in the year) both earned higher PFF grades than Odenigbo.
Depth at DE isn't an issue, we have D.J. Wonnum, Jalyn Holmes, Kenny Willekes, Hercules and Bailford.
Regardless of Odenigbo's return or not, the Vikings must add a blue-chip edge rusher via the draft. I would take Rousseau a 14 and then try to trade up into the 2nd rd for DT Daviyon Nixon or DT Alim McNeill.
Where is the draft at right now?... I think it's safe to say the rush for the DT class will probably not start until after the top 3 or 4 edge guys come off the board.
Daniel Jeremiah (a former NFL scout) has edge guys like Gregory Rousseau, Kwitty Paye, Jaelen Phillips and Jayson Owen all ranked higher than Barmore and Nixon.
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah...nkings-1-0
I think using the PFF grades for Mata'afa & Bailford is misleading since the sample size is so small. We've seen more good play from Odenigbo than any of the other DE's on the roster save Hunter. Holmes just hasn't developed & I don't even expect him to be on the roster in 2021. Willekes spent the year on IR & may need another on the PS before we can count on him to be a solid rotational piece.
We all hope that someday Wonnum will surpass Odenigbo but he's not there yet.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
@MaroonBells I agree. I hope Odenigbo comes backs.. but I can see another team giving up a 7th round pick and 1.5M to 2.5M for a low end starter.
Because Odenigbo didn't have the success I expected this season (3.5 sacks 3 TFL),.. it kind of hurts the Vikings ability to protect him IMO. Hercules Mata'afa (who moved to DE) and Jordan Bailford (who was added to the roster late in the year) both earned higher PFF grades than Odenigbo.
Depth at DE isn't an issue, we have D.J. Wonnum, Jalyn Holmes, Kenny Willekes, Hercules and Bailford.
Regardless of Odenigbo's return or not, the Vikings must add a blue-chip edge rusher via the draft. I would take Rousseau a 14 and then try to trade up into the 2nd rd for DT Daviyon Nixon or DT Alim McNeill.
Where is the draft at right now?... I think it's safe to say the rush for the DT class will probably not start until after the top 3 or 4 edge guys come off the board.
Daniel Jeremiah (a former NFL scout) has edge guys like Gregory Rousseau, Kwitty Paye, Jaelen Phillips and Jayson Owen all ranked higher than Barmore and Nixon.
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah...nkings-1-0
I'm not as high on Rousseau, and certainly not Paye as some others. I just think when it comes to impact getting a legitimate 3 technique to compliment the pieces already coming back does more for this team then any other position and you know Zimmer is going to be pounding the table to reboot this defense. To me Eric Kendricks was in the conversation for defensive player of the year prior to injury with Stephen and Johnson as his front. Can you imagine what he does getting Pierce in their along with say a Christian Barmore? I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys outside of Phillips
I agree with you in large part, but I think you highlighted the issue with Barmore: "I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys". Upside eventually, but what will he be contributing in 2021? I actually see him as a prospect much like Kevin Williams: enormous potential that probably won't be realized for a year or two. Drop him into the starting lineup on day 1 and there will probably be some mistakes, not necessarily an immediate defensive upgrade.
Funny, that's a comparison I've made before when looking at Barmore. KWill was more dynamic, and actually started out as a DE, but I think eventually Barmore could be a Kevin Williams-light type of player, especially playing in between Hunter and Pierce.
Quote: @PurpleCrush said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
@MaroonBells I agree. I hope Odenigbo comes backs.. but I can see another team giving up a 7th round pick and 1.5M to 2.5M for a low end starter.
Because Odenigbo didn't have the success I expected this season (3.5 sacks 3 TFL),.. it kind of hurts the Vikings ability to protect him IMO. Hercules Mata'afa (who moved to DE) and Jordan Bailford (who was added to the roster late in the year) both earned higher PFF grades than Odenigbo.
Depth at DE isn't an issue, we have D.J. Wonnum, Jalyn Holmes, Kenny Willekes, Hercules and Bailford.
Regardless of Odenigbo's return or not, the Vikings must add a blue-chip edge rusher via the draft. I would take Rousseau a 14 and then try to trade up into the 2nd rd for DT Daviyon Nixon or DT Alim McNeill.
Where is the draft at right now?... I think it's safe to say the rush for the DT class will probably not start until after the top 3 or 4 edge guys come off the board.
Daniel Jeremiah (a former NFL scout) has edge guys like Gregory Rousseau, Kwitty Paye, Jaelen Phillips and Jayson Owen all ranked higher than Barmore and Nixon.
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah...nkings-1-0
I'm not as high on Rousseau, and certainly not Paye as some others. I just think when it comes to impact getting a legitimate 3 technique to compliment the pieces already coming back does more for this team then any other position and you know Zimmer is going to be pounding the table to reboot this defense. To me Eric Kendricks was in the conversation for defensive player of the year prior to injury with Stephen and Johnson as his front. Can you imagine what he does getting Pierce in their along with say a Christian Barmore? I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys outside of Phillips
I agree with you in large part, but I think you highlighted the issue with Barmore: "I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys". Upside eventually, but what will he be contributing in 2021? I actually see him as a prospect much like Kevin Williams: enormous potential that probably won't be realized for a year or two. Drop him into the starting lineup on day 1 and there will probably be some mistakes, not necessarily an immediate defensive upgrade.
Funny, that's a comparison I've made before when looking at Barmore. KWill was more dynamic, and actually started out as a DE, but I think eventually Barmore could be a Kevin Williams-light type of player, especially playing in between Hunter and Pierce.
not to take away from KWill, but I would expect a first round pick to be as good or better considering he would be playing next to an All Pro DE and what is supposed to be an upper tier DT. I would expect a middle of the road guy to look pretty rock solid between Hunter and Pierce, but I wouldnt take a middle of the road guy with the #14 pick. If Barmore isnt viewed as a KWill or better type player than he shouldnt be the pick at 14 IMO.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
@MaroonBells I agree. I hope Odenigbo comes backs.. but I can see another team giving up a 7th round pick and 1.5M to 2.5M for a low end starter.
Because Odenigbo didn't have the success I expected this season (3.5 sacks 3 TFL),.. it kind of hurts the Vikings ability to protect him IMO. Hercules Mata'afa (who moved to DE) and Jordan Bailford (who was added to the roster late in the year) both earned higher PFF grades than Odenigbo.
Depth at DE isn't an issue, we have D.J. Wonnum, Jalyn Holmes, Kenny Willekes, Hercules and Bailford.
Regardless of Odenigbo's return or not, the Vikings must add a blue-chip edge rusher via the draft. I would take Rousseau a 14 and then try to trade up into the 2nd rd for DT Daviyon Nixon or DT Alim McNeill.
Where is the draft at right now?... I think it's safe to say the rush for the DT class will probably not start until after the top 3 or 4 edge guys come off the board.
Daniel Jeremiah (a former NFL scout) has edge guys like Gregory Rousseau, Kwitty Paye, Jaelen Phillips and Jayson Owen all ranked higher than Barmore and Nixon.
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah...nkings-1-0
I'm not as high on Rousseau, and certainly not Paye as some others. I just think when it comes to impact getting a legitimate 3 technique to compliment the pieces already coming back does more for this team then any other position and you know Zimmer is going to be pounding the table to reboot this defense. To me Eric Kendricks was in the conversation for defensive player of the year prior to injury with Stephen and Johnson as his front. Can you imagine what he does getting Pierce in their along with say a Christian Barmore? I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys outside of Phillips
I agree with you in large part, but I think you highlighted the issue with Barmore: "I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys". Upside eventually, but what will he be contributing in 2021? I actually see him as a prospect much like Kevin Williams: enormous potential that probably won't be realized for a year or two. Drop him into the starting lineup on day 1 and there will probably be some mistakes, not necessarily an immediate defensive upgrade.
Funny, that's a comparison I've made before when looking at Barmore. KWill was more dynamic, and actually started out as a DE, but I think eventually Barmore could be a Kevin Williams-light type of player, especially playing in between Hunter and Pierce.
not to take away from KWill, but I would expect a first round pick to be as good or better considering he would be playing next to an All Pro DE and what is supposed to be an upper tier DT. I would expect a middle of the road guy to look pretty rock solid between Hunter and Pierce, but I wouldnt take a middle of the road guy with the #14 pick. If Barmore isnt viewed as a KWill or better type player than he shouldnt be the pick at 14 IMO.
KWill is a borderline HOF player. I'm not ready to bestow that on any kid who hasn't played a down in the league just yet. Just from watching him this past season this kid reminds me a bit of KWill, and even if he ends up being a slightly lesser type player that would still be a homerun pick, at least in my eyes.
Quote: @PurpleCrush said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
@MaroonBells I agree. I hope Odenigbo comes backs.. but I can see another team giving up a 7th round pick and 1.5M to 2.5M for a low end starter.
Because Odenigbo didn't have the success I expected this season (3.5 sacks 3 TFL),.. it kind of hurts the Vikings ability to protect him IMO. Hercules Mata'afa (who moved to DE) and Jordan Bailford (who was added to the roster late in the year) both earned higher PFF grades than Odenigbo.
Depth at DE isn't an issue, we have D.J. Wonnum, Jalyn Holmes, Kenny Willekes, Hercules and Bailford.
Regardless of Odenigbo's return or not, the Vikings must add a blue-chip edge rusher via the draft. I would take Rousseau a 14 and then try to trade up into the 2nd rd for DT Daviyon Nixon or DT Alim McNeill.
Where is the draft at right now?... I think it's safe to say the rush for the DT class will probably not start until after the top 3 or 4 edge guys come off the board.
Daniel Jeremiah (a former NFL scout) has edge guys like Gregory Rousseau, Kwitty Paye, Jaelen Phillips and Jayson Owen all ranked higher than Barmore and Nixon.
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah...nkings-1-0
I'm not as high on Rousseau, and certainly not Paye as some others. I just think when it comes to impact getting a legitimate 3 technique to compliment the pieces already coming back does more for this team then any other position and you know Zimmer is going to be pounding the table to reboot this defense. To me Eric Kendricks was in the conversation for defensive player of the year prior to injury with Stephen and Johnson as his front. Can you imagine what he does getting Pierce in their along with say a Christian Barmore? I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys outside of Phillips
I agree with you in large part, but I think you highlighted the issue with Barmore: "I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys". Upside eventually, but what will he be contributing in 2021? I actually see him as a prospect much like Kevin Williams: enormous potential that probably won't be realized for a year or two. Drop him into the starting lineup on day 1 and there will probably be some mistakes, not necessarily an immediate defensive upgrade.
Funny, that's a comparison I've made before when looking at Barmore. KWill was more dynamic, and actually started out as a DE, but I think eventually Barmore could be a Kevin Williams-light type of player, especially playing in between Hunter and Pierce.
not to take away from KWill, but I would expect a first round pick to be as good or better considering he would be playing next to an All Pro DE and what is supposed to be an upper tier DT. I would expect a middle of the road guy to look pretty rock solid between Hunter and Pierce, but I wouldnt take a middle of the road guy with the #14 pick. If Barmore isnt viewed as a KWill or better type player than he shouldnt be the pick at 14 IMO.
KWill is a borderline HOF player. I'm not ready to bestow that on any kid who hasn't played a down in the league just yet. Just from watching him this past season this kid reminds me a bit of KWill, and even if he ends up being a slightly lesser type player that would still be a homerun pick, at least in my eyes.
KWill being the high side for a first rounder that gets to play off of Hunter and Pierce isnt good enough. A player taken at 14 needs to be viewed as having a greater impact than KWill if he gets to play between Hunter and Pierce (assuming Hunter comes back as good as pre injury, and Pierce is close to as good as some profess he will be.) you say KWill light... I say he better be as big of an impact if not bigger considering what hes got around him.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
@MaroonBells I agree. I hope Odenigbo comes backs.. but I can see another team giving up a 7th round pick and 1.5M to 2.5M for a low end starter.
Because Odenigbo didn't have the success I expected this season (3.5 sacks 3 TFL),.. it kind of hurts the Vikings ability to protect him IMO. Hercules Mata'afa (who moved to DE) and Jordan Bailford (who was added to the roster late in the year) both earned higher PFF grades than Odenigbo.
Depth at DE isn't an issue, we have D.J. Wonnum, Jalyn Holmes, Kenny Willekes, Hercules and Bailford.
Regardless of Odenigbo's return or not, the Vikings must add a blue-chip edge rusher via the draft. I would take Rousseau a 14 and then try to trade up into the 2nd rd for DT Daviyon Nixon or DT Alim McNeill.
Where is the draft at right now?... I think it's safe to say the rush for the DT class will probably not start until after the top 3 or 4 edge guys come off the board.
Daniel Jeremiah (a former NFL scout) has edge guys like Gregory Rousseau, Kwitty Paye, Jaelen Phillips and Jayson Owen all ranked higher than Barmore and Nixon.
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah...nkings-1-0
I'm not as high on Rousseau, and certainly not Paye as some others. I just think when it comes to impact getting a legitimate 3 technique to compliment the pieces already coming back does more for this team then any other position and you know Zimmer is going to be pounding the table to reboot this defense. To me Eric Kendricks was in the conversation for defensive player of the year prior to injury with Stephen and Johnson as his front. Can you imagine what he does getting Pierce in their along with say a Christian Barmore? I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys outside of Phillips
I agree with you in large part, but I think you highlighted the issue with Barmore: "I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys". Upside eventually, but what will he be contributing in 2021? I actually see him as a prospect much like Kevin Williams: enormous potential that probably won't be realized for a year or two. Drop him into the starting lineup on day 1 and there will probably be some mistakes, not necessarily an immediate defensive upgrade.
Funny, that's a comparison I've made before when looking at Barmore. KWill was more dynamic, and actually started out as a DE, but I think eventually Barmore could be a Kevin Williams-light type of player, especially playing in between Hunter and Pierce.
not to take away from KWill, but I would expect a first round pick to be as good or better considering he would be playing next to an All Pro DE and what is supposed to be an upper tier DT. I would expect a middle of the road guy to look pretty rock solid between Hunter and Pierce, but I wouldnt take a middle of the road guy with the #14 pick. If Barmore isnt viewed as a KWill or better type player than he shouldnt be the pick at 14 IMO.
KWill is a borderline HOF player. I'm not ready to bestow that on any kid who hasn't played a down in the league just yet. Just from watching him this past season this kid reminds me a bit of KWill, and even if he ends up being a slightly lesser type player that would still be a homerun pick, at least in my eyes.
KWill being the high side for a first rounder that gets to play off of Hunter and Pierce isnt good enough. A player taken at 14 needs to be viewed as having a greater impact than KWill if he gets to play between Hunter and Pierce (assuming Hunter comes back as good as pre injury, and Pierce is close to as good as some profess he will be.) you say KWill light... I say he better be as big of an impact if not bigger considering what hes got around him.
I don't think that is a fair expectation, you're only going to be disappointed. K-Will was one of the best DTs in the league during his prime years. Barmore is a redshirt sophmore who has started only a handful of games and needs A TON of technical refinement. High ceiling but you're not going to get a year 1 impact player.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
@MaroonBells I agree. I hope Odenigbo comes backs.. but I can see another team giving up a 7th round pick and 1.5M to 2.5M for a low end starter.
Because Odenigbo didn't have the success I expected this season (3.5 sacks 3 TFL),.. it kind of hurts the Vikings ability to protect him IMO. Hercules Mata'afa (who moved to DE) and Jordan Bailford (who was added to the roster late in the year) both earned higher PFF grades than Odenigbo.
Depth at DE isn't an issue, we have D.J. Wonnum, Jalyn Holmes, Kenny Willekes, Hercules and Bailford.
Regardless of Odenigbo's return or not, the Vikings must add a blue-chip edge rusher via the draft. I would take Rousseau a 14 and then try to trade up into the 2nd rd for DT Daviyon Nixon or DT Alim McNeill.
Where is the draft at right now?... I think it's safe to say the rush for the DT class will probably not start until after the top 3 or 4 edge guys come off the board.
Daniel Jeremiah (a former NFL scout) has edge guys like Gregory Rousseau, Kwitty Paye, Jaelen Phillips and Jayson Owen all ranked higher than Barmore and Nixon.
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah...nkings-1-0
I'm not as high on Rousseau, and certainly not Paye as some others. I just think when it comes to impact getting a legitimate 3 technique to compliment the pieces already coming back does more for this team then any other position and you know Zimmer is going to be pounding the table to reboot this defense. To me Eric Kendricks was in the conversation for defensive player of the year prior to injury with Stephen and Johnson as his front. Can you imagine what he does getting Pierce in their along with say a Christian Barmore? I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys outside of Phillips
I agree with you in large part, but I think you highlighted the issue with Barmore: "I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys". Upside eventually, but what will he be contributing in 2021? I actually see him as a prospect much like Kevin Williams: enormous potential that probably won't be realized for a year or two. Drop him into the starting lineup on day 1 and there will probably be some mistakes, not necessarily an immediate defensive upgrade.
Funny, that's a comparison I've made before when looking at Barmore. KWill was more dynamic, and actually started out as a DE, but I think eventually Barmore could be a Kevin Williams-light type of player, especially playing in between Hunter and Pierce.
not to take away from KWill, but I would expect a first round pick to be as good or better considering he would be playing next to an All Pro DE and what is supposed to be an upper tier DT. I would expect a middle of the road guy to look pretty rock solid between Hunter and Pierce, but I wouldnt take a middle of the road guy with the #14 pick. If Barmore isnt viewed as a KWill or better type player than he shouldnt be the pick at 14 IMO.
KWill is a borderline HOF player. I'm not ready to bestow that on any kid who hasn't played a down in the league just yet. Just from watching him this past season this kid reminds me a bit of KWill, and even if he ends up being a slightly lesser type player that would still be a homerun pick, at least in my eyes.
KWill being the high side for a first rounder that gets to play off of Hunter and Pierce isnt good enough. A player taken at 14 needs to be viewed as having a greater impact than KWill if he gets to play between Hunter and Pierce (assuming Hunter comes back as good as pre injury, and Pierce is close to as good as some profess he will be.) you say KWill light... I say he better be as big of an impact if not bigger considering what hes got around him.
I don't think that is a fair expectation, you're only going to be disappointed. K-Will was one of the best DTs in the league during his prime years. Barmore is a redshirt sophmore who has started only a handful of games and needs A TON of technical refinement. High ceiling but you're not going to get a year 1 impact player.
KWill wasnt KWill year one, but I am saying if you use that #14 pick on a DT, you should expect KWill, for his career, at a minimum considering the caliber of players he is platooned with. Anything short of that and we should be looking at other players/positions for a top of his position in his prime type of player.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
@MaroonBells I agree. I hope Odenigbo comes backs.. but I can see another team giving up a 7th round pick and 1.5M to 2.5M for a low end starter.
Because Odenigbo didn't have the success I expected this season (3.5 sacks 3 TFL),.. it kind of hurts the Vikings ability to protect him IMO. Hercules Mata'afa (who moved to DE) and Jordan Bailford (who was added to the roster late in the year) both earned higher PFF grades than Odenigbo.
Depth at DE isn't an issue, we have D.J. Wonnum, Jalyn Holmes, Kenny Willekes, Hercules and Bailford.
Regardless of Odenigbo's return or not, the Vikings must add a blue-chip edge rusher via the draft. I would take Rousseau a 14 and then try to trade up into the 2nd rd for DT Daviyon Nixon or DT Alim McNeill.
Where is the draft at right now?... I think it's safe to say the rush for the DT class will probably not start until after the top 3 or 4 edge guys come off the board.
Daniel Jeremiah (a former NFL scout) has edge guys like Gregory Rousseau, Kwitty Paye, Jaelen Phillips and Jayson Owen all ranked higher than Barmore and Nixon.
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah...nkings-1-0
I'm not as high on Rousseau, and certainly not Paye as some others. I just think when it comes to impact getting a legitimate 3 technique to compliment the pieces already coming back does more for this team then any other position and you know Zimmer is going to be pounding the table to reboot this defense. To me Eric Kendricks was in the conversation for defensive player of the year prior to injury with Stephen and Johnson as his front. Can you imagine what he does getting Pierce in their along with say a Christian Barmore? I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys outside of Phillips
I agree with you in large part, but I think you highlighted the issue with Barmore: "I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys". Upside eventually, but what will he be contributing in 2021? I actually see him as a prospect much like Kevin Williams: enormous potential that probably won't be realized for a year or two. Drop him into the starting lineup on day 1 and there will probably be some mistakes, not necessarily an immediate defensive upgrade.
Funny, that's a comparison I've made before when looking at Barmore. KWill was more dynamic, and actually started out as a DE, but I think eventually Barmore could be a Kevin Williams-light type of player, especially playing in between Hunter and Pierce.
not to take away from KWill, but I would expect a first round pick to be as good or better considering he would be playing next to an All Pro DE and what is supposed to be an upper tier DT. I would expect a middle of the road guy to look pretty rock solid between Hunter and Pierce, but I wouldnt take a middle of the road guy with the #14 pick. If Barmore isnt viewed as a KWill or better type player than he shouldnt be the pick at 14 IMO.
KWill is a borderline HOF player. I'm not ready to bestow that on any kid who hasn't played a down in the league just yet. Just from watching him this past season this kid reminds me a bit of KWill, and even if he ends up being a slightly lesser type player that would still be a homerun pick, at least in my eyes.
KWill being the high side for a first rounder that gets to play off of Hunter and Pierce isnt good enough. A player taken at 14 needs to be viewed as having a greater impact than KWill if he gets to play between Hunter and Pierce (assuming Hunter comes back as good as pre injury, and Pierce is close to as good as some profess he will be.) you say KWill light... I say he better be as big of an impact if not bigger considering what hes got around him.
I don't think that is a fair expectation, you're only going to be disappointed. K-Will was one of the best DTs in the league during his prime years. Barmore is a redshirt sophmore who has started only a handful of games and needs A TON of technical refinement. High ceiling but you're not going to get a year 1 impact player.
KWill wasnt KWill year one, but I am saying if you use that #14 pick on a DT, you should expect KWill, for his career, at a minimum considering the caliber of players he is platooned with. Anything short of that and we should be looking at other players/positions for a top of his position in his prime type of player.
I think you have very high optimism about the 14th overall pick. Last year it was Javon Kinlaw and he had 1.5 sacks as a rookie for the 49ers. Are you expecting all our 1st-rounders to start as well as Jefferson did?
I'm just saying something like Geoff - Barmore has high future upside, but not necessarily instant productivity, no matter who he lines up between.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
@MaroonBells I agree. I hope Odenigbo comes backs.. but I can see another team giving up a 7th round pick and 1.5M to 2.5M for a low end starter.
Because Odenigbo didn't have the success I expected this season (3.5 sacks 3 TFL),.. it kind of hurts the Vikings ability to protect him IMO. Hercules Mata'afa (who moved to DE) and Jordan Bailford (who was added to the roster late in the year) both earned higher PFF grades than Odenigbo.
Depth at DE isn't an issue, we have D.J. Wonnum, Jalyn Holmes, Kenny Willekes, Hercules and Bailford.
Regardless of Odenigbo's return or not, the Vikings must add a blue-chip edge rusher via the draft. I would take Rousseau a 14 and then try to trade up into the 2nd rd for DT Daviyon Nixon or DT Alim McNeill.
Where is the draft at right now?... I think it's safe to say the rush for the DT class will probably not start until after the top 3 or 4 edge guys come off the board.
Daniel Jeremiah (a former NFL scout) has edge guys like Gregory Rousseau, Kwitty Paye, Jaelen Phillips and Jayson Owen all ranked higher than Barmore and Nixon.
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah...nkings-1-0
I'm not as high on Rousseau, and certainly not Paye as some others. I just think when it comes to impact getting a legitimate 3 technique to compliment the pieces already coming back does more for this team then any other position and you know Zimmer is going to be pounding the table to reboot this defense. To me Eric Kendricks was in the conversation for defensive player of the year prior to injury with Stephen and Johnson as his front. Can you imagine what he does getting Pierce in their along with say a Christian Barmore? I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys outside of Phillips
I agree with you in large part, but I think you highlighted the issue with Barmore: "I would certainly place Barmore's upside probably higher then most of those edge guys". Upside eventually, but what will he be contributing in 2021? I actually see him as a prospect much like Kevin Williams: enormous potential that probably won't be realized for a year or two. Drop him into the starting lineup on day 1 and there will probably be some mistakes, not necessarily an immediate defensive upgrade.
Funny, that's a comparison I've made before when looking at Barmore. KWill was more dynamic, and actually started out as a DE, but I think eventually Barmore could be a Kevin Williams-light type of player, especially playing in between Hunter and Pierce.
not to take away from KWill, but I would expect a first round pick to be as good or better considering he would be playing next to an All Pro DE and what is supposed to be an upper tier DT. I would expect a middle of the road guy to look pretty rock solid between Hunter and Pierce, but I wouldnt take a middle of the road guy with the #14 pick. If Barmore isnt viewed as a KWill or better type player than he shouldnt be the pick at 14 IMO.
KWill is a borderline HOF player. I'm not ready to bestow that on any kid who hasn't played a down in the league just yet. Just from watching him this past season this kid reminds me a bit of KWill, and even if he ends up being a slightly lesser type player that would still be a homerun pick, at least in my eyes.
KWill being the high side for a first rounder that gets to play off of Hunter and Pierce isnt good enough. A player taken at 14 needs to be viewed as having a greater impact than KWill if he gets to play between Hunter and Pierce (assuming Hunter comes back as good as pre injury, and Pierce is close to as good as some profess he will be.) you say KWill light... I say he better be as big of an impact if not bigger considering what hes got around him.
I don't think that is a fair expectation, you're only going to be disappointed. K-Will was one of the best DTs in the league during his prime years. Barmore is a redshirt sophmore who has started only a handful of games and needs A TON of technical refinement. High ceiling but you're not going to get a year 1 impact player.
KWill wasnt KWill year one, but I am saying if you use that #14 pick on a DT, you should expect KWill, for his career, at a minimum considering the caliber of players he is platooned with. Anything short of that and we should be looking at other players/positions for a top of his position in his prime type of player.
I think you have very high optimism about the 14th overall pick. Last year it was Javon Kinlaw and he had 1.5 sacks as a rookie for the 49ers. Are you expecting all our 1st-rounders to start as well as Jefferson did?
I'm just saying something like Geoff - Barmore has high future upside, but not necessarily instant productivity, no matter who he lines up between.
I expect them to identify a future stud and to target him. From 14 we can realistically look at anything outside the top 7 and likely make a deal to move up and get our guy. This team doesn't often draft in the top 20 so when we do IMO we need to get that top tier player and not just another nice career guy. Maybe this draft doesn't have that guy, I dont know, but outside of RB there isn't a position on the team that couldn't use a future all pro addition. If Barmore doesn't have that potential (ie KWill) then we should keep looking IMO, or trade down if possible, not settle.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
I think Minnesota needs a guy like Barrimore more than a DE. I think with Hunter and Pierce back, Wonnum might play a lot better.
Same with Odenigbo. He was very effective with a healthy Hunter on the opposite side.
Totally agree on 3T as a much bigger need. The question the Vikings staff will need to answer is Barmore a better prospect at 14 than the Olineman that will be available at that pick? Is Barmore really just the best of a week DT class, or is what we saw at the end of the year what we will be getting? He's young with a lot of upside potential so I would like to think we have the coaching staff that can get the most out of him and fast track his development to start from day 1.
Assuming the top 4 QB's are off the board by the time we pick at 14, I definitely think there will be teams desperate for a QB that may target Mac Jones and try to make a deal with Rick. He had a great Senior Bowl showing even though it was only in practice sessions, but he showed a lot of scouts what he can do.
A ton of QB hungry teams this year could set a record for 1st round QB's drafted.
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