Quote: @Carl Knowles said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Carl Knowles said:
Chris Spielman is starting off strong as GM for the Lions. If they roll with Goff at QB and trade back from pick 7... they could have a boat load of future high round draft picks.
Brad Holmes, who came over from the Rams, is the Lions GM. Which kind of begs the question, now that Paton is in Denver, and they were in on the Stafford sweepstakes...do they make a move for Cousins?
You're right... Holmes is the GM, but Spielman was hired first as a Special Assistant to the Owner and CEO. Holmes came up through the scouting department with the Rams and loved Goff. I see Holmes and Spielman as a tag team combo very similar to Paton and John Elway in Denver.
To answer your question, I have heard Paton might have been the "lead dog" in bringing Cousins to Minnesota.
I'm a Cousins' fan, but yes, I would take pick #9 and Drew Lock from Denver if Paton is indeed a big Cousins' believer.
Pick #15 from New England and pick #21 from the Colts... I would listen.
Some people say Cousins has no market value,.. but right now I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a first round pick and another QB.
If the Broncos would deal Lock and #9 for Cousins, I would agree in a heartbeat. Lock has some nice skills, good for a Kubiak offense, mobile and has swagger. At #9 and #14 you could easily add Chase (WR) and Davis (OG). Draft defense the rest of the way (DE, DT, LB, CB).
Lock-Cook-Jet-Adam-Chase-Irv with a OL of Reiff-Davis-Bradburry-Cleveland-ONeil
WOW
Quote: @Rigby said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Rigby said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Panthers offered the #8 and a 6th.
Washington offered the #19 and a 3rd
If Goff returns to form, this trade heavily favors Detroit. But if not, you just saddled the franchise with a horrible contract. Add to that the 6 year contract they just forked over to The Dude, all I can say is Lions gonna lion. Moribund franchise.
Yes, and knowing the Lions, they'll draft nothing but tight ends with all those 1st rounders.
Or corners...........oh sorry, thinking of someone else.
Corners should be 1st round picks. TEs never.
On occasion sure, four in eight years - nah. For my money Kyle Pitts is one of the top five or six players in this draft - so I wouldn't say never to a TE either.
I'm not a never tight ender, but close. And since I'm struggling to find motivation to work this morning, here's how I would break it down...
Never in the 1st:2-down LB2-down NTCover-two CBSpecial teams
Only if player is generational talent and this is your “last remaining need:”TERB
It’s wrong but I can be talked into it:SIOL3-down NT4-3 LB
Impact positions in orderQBDE3TCBOT
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Rigby said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Rigby said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Panthers offered the #8 and a 6th.
Washington offered the #19 and a 3rd
If Goff returns to form, this trade heavily favors Detroit. But if not, you just saddled the franchise with a horrible contract. Add to that the 6 year contract they just forked over to The Dude, all I can say is Lions gonna lion. Moribund franchise.
Yes, and knowing the Lions, they'll draft nothing but tight ends with all those 1st rounders.
Or corners...........oh sorry, thinking of someone else.
Corners should be 1st round picks. TEs never.
On occasion sure, four in eight years - nah. For my money Kyle Pitts is one of the top five or six players in this draft - so I wouldn't say never to a TE either.
I'm not a never tight ender, but close. And since I'm struggling to find motivation to work this morning, here's how I would break it down...
Never in the 1st:2-down LB2-down NTCover-two CBSpecial teams
Only if player is generational talent and this is your “last remaining need:”TERB
It’s wrong but I can be talked into it:SIOL3-down NT4-3 LB
Impact positions in orderQBDE3TCBOT
Seems a little too rigid. If you're drafting in the 20's, do you want to draft the 6th best DE or OT? Maybe if it's not a deep draft at those positions, but I think you have to also look at the value left on the board compared to your draft position. This is why teams stack their boards vertically as well as horizontally.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
That is an insane amount for Matthew Stafford, given his age, contract and injury history. I can't even fathom what Watson will bring.
I think the perception that his team has held him back is probably what made Stafford so hotly pursued. And there's probably a lot of truth to that.
Still, two 1sts, a 3rd and a starting QB? To a team with the #7 overall pick? The Lions could get a lot better very quickly.
Mah...who'm I kidding. It's the Lions.
Any WRs named Mike in the first round?
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
Loser: QB Jared Goff2 of 5
In Los Angeles, the wheels fell off of the Jared Goff train quickly. Two years after a Super Bowl appearance, the Rams cut ties with him after consecutive inconsistent seasons.
In 2020, Goff threw for 20 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. In December, he broke his right thumb and sat out of the team's Week 17 game against the Arizona Cardinals. John Wolford started and led the Rams to victory.
Although Goff was cleared to play against the Seattle Seahawks in the Wild Card Round, McVay opted to start Wolford, who went down with a neck injury early in the game. Los Angeles won the contest, but some wondered why Goff didn't start if healthy enough to suit up for the game.
The Rams foreshadowed their decision to turn the page on Goff's tenure as the starting quarterback. Now, he goes to a franchise that's in rebuild mode. This offseason, the Lions hired general manager Brad Holmes and head coach Dan Campbell to take over for Bob Quinn and Matt Patricia, respectively.
Goff will attempt to reinvent himself under a first-year full-time head coach with a franchise that hasn't had playoff success in nearly three decades.
Winner: Detroit Lions
We should all remember the real Goff. Under Fisher (not an offensive genius, but still) Goff couldn't even hardly get on the field despite his draft status. McVay came in and suddenly Goff looked good. But if you will recall, the Vikings put a beatdown on the Rams in that year by not committing to their defense until after the helmet radio was off. It leaked out that McVay was reading the D for Goff and feeding it to him at the LOS. Yeah, McVay unleashed a revenge the next year, but you could tell this was his superbowl after being exposed the year before. He is an offensive genius and had some really unique wrinkles to get our LBs isolated on WRs and such.
McVay was able to keep Goff propped up and his offense did well, but without a running game threat, Goff couldn't shoulder the load and lost in the superbowl they shouldn't have been in.
Bottom line, if McVay is ready to cut bait, you can bet that Goff hasn't developed in his ability to read a D.
So I dispute that the Lions are a winner. Goff will be a loser as he gets further exposed, but no way the Lions come out ahead with him.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
At first I was a little shocked what the Rams gave up but when you break it down it makes more sense.
- As for the draft picks, future 1st are devalued since you need to wait to reap value. So I kind of find that to be a loss for the Lions unless the Rams end up coughing up a top-10 pick. Using the draft value chart lets say the Rams pick in the mid-20s so the two firsts are worth a combined 1,500 draft points. Devalue it some for future value and its worth less than the 8th overall pick from Carolina. The 3rd rounder balances that a big but the Rams also picked up a compensatory 3rd this and next off-season for the Lions hiring Holmes. In the end you got the equivalent of Carolina's 8th pick with upside if the Rams falter.
- Dumping Goff was out of necessity for the Rams so they could make Stafford's money work. They probably will bonus restructure Stafford to get his 2021 cap hit down to around $16M. That is a BARGAIN for Stafford, which is why trading for him made so much sense for other teams. Goff's dead money hurts but the reality is even if they move Stafford's money around they will have him at under $30M in 2022 with room to knock that down rather easily. So for a team that pays its stars, this allows the Rams to move into the top 10 in NFL cap space this season with some practical moves. I personally don't think they necessarily paid the Lions to take Goff. Maybe you could talk yourself into it but Goff's deal minus the dead money on the Rams books isn't that bad. Goff isn't as bad as people think and the reality is the Lions will draft a QB to compete with him. You can trade Goff next off-season fairly easily. $0M dead money on the Lions books unless they eat some of his roster bonus to get a higher return.
In the end this isn't the runaway win for the Lions most made it out to be on Saturday night. They got a competitive deal tying their best offer and got Stafford to his preferred destination. If not for that I think the Lions likely would have had to taken the Panthers offer of #8, Bridgewater, and a late round pick. Washington was also considering offering their 2021 1st along with a 2022 1st. Could have been a pick swap in 2022 but I think both those offers were probably slightly better.
Geoff what is your background? You are an excellent communicator and writer. Very knowledgeable.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Loser: QB Jared Goff2 of 5
In Los Angeles, the wheels fell off of the Jared Goff train quickly. Two years after a Super Bowl appearance, the Rams cut ties with him after consecutive inconsistent seasons.
In 2020, Goff threw for 20 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. In December, he broke his right thumb and sat out of the team's Week 17 game against the Arizona Cardinals. John Wolford started and led the Rams to victory.
Although Goff was cleared to play against the Seattle Seahawks in the Wild Card Round, McVay opted to start Wolford, who went down with a neck injury early in the game. Los Angeles won the contest, but some wondered why Goff didn't start if healthy enough to suit up for the game.
The Rams foreshadowed their decision to turn the page on Goff's tenure as the starting quarterback. Now, he goes to a franchise that's in rebuild mode. This offseason, the Lions hired general manager Brad Holmes and head coach Dan Campbell to take over for Bob Quinn and Matt Patricia, respectively.
Goff will attempt to reinvent himself under a first-year full-time head coach with a franchise that hasn't had playoff success in nearly three decades.
Winner: Detroit Lions
We should all remember the real Goff. Under Fisher (not an offensive genius, but still) Goff couldn't even hardly get on the field despite his draft status. McVay came in and suddenly Goff looked good. But if you will recall, the Vikings put a beatdown on the Rams in that year by not committing to their defense until after the helmet radio was off. It leaked out that McVay was reading the D for Goff and feeding it to him at the LOS. Yeah, McVay unleashed a revenge the next year, but you could tell this was his superbowl after being exposed the year before. He is an offensive genius and had some really unique wrinkles to get our LBs isolated on WRs and such.
McVay was able to keep Goff propped up and his offense did well, but without a running game threat, Goff couldn't shoulder the load and lost in the superbowl they shouldn't have been in.
Bottom line, if McVay is ready to cut bait, you can bet that Goff hasn't developed in his ability to read a D.
So I dispute that the Lions are a winner. Goff will be a loser as he gets further exposed, but no way the Lions come out ahead with him.
This trade's success is all about Goff. The Lions' management will try to say he was an extra asset received for Stafford. I think that's BS - they took on a cap hit liability in him, and the Rams acquired cap space from them. I think he's little better than Brock Osweiler.
We'll see if the Lions draft a QB. If they don't, and waste a few years trying to salvage Goff, they really lost in this trade.
Quote: @Knucklehead said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Rigby said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Rigby said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Panthers offered the #8 and a 6th.
Washington offered the #19 and a 3rd
If Goff returns to form, this trade heavily favors Detroit. But if not, you just saddled the franchise with a horrible contract. Add to that the 6 year contract they just forked over to The Dude, all I can say is Lions gonna lion. Moribund franchise.
Yes, and knowing the Lions, they'll draft nothing but tight ends with all those 1st rounders.
Or corners...........oh sorry, thinking of someone else.
Corners should be 1st round picks. TEs never.
On occasion sure, four in eight years - nah. For my money Kyle Pitts is one of the top five or six players in this draft - so I wouldn't say never to a TE either.
I'm not a never tight ender, but close. And since I'm struggling to find motivation to work this morning, here's how I would break it down...
Never in the 1st:2-down LB2-down NTCover-two CBSpecial teams
Only if player is generational talent and this is your “last remaining need:”TERB
It’s wrong but I can be talked into it:SIOL3-down NT4-3 LB
Impact positions in orderQBDE3TCBOT
Seems a little too rigid. If you're drafting in the 20's, do you want to draft the 6th best DE or OT? Maybe if it's not a deep draft at those positions, but I think you have to also look at the value left on the board compared to your draft position. This is why teams stack their boards vertically as well as horizontally.
Yep, that's an excellent point.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Knucklehead said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Rigby said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Rigby said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Panthers offered the #8 and a 6th.
Washington offered the #19 and a 3rd
If Goff returns to form, this trade heavily favors Detroit. But if not, you just saddled the franchise with a horrible contract. Add to that the 6 year contract they just forked over to The Dude, all I can say is Lions gonna lion. Moribund franchise.
Yes, and knowing the Lions, they'll draft nothing but tight ends with all those 1st rounders.
Or corners...........oh sorry, thinking of someone else.
Corners should be 1st round picks. TEs never.
On occasion sure, four in eight years - nah. For my money Kyle Pitts is one of the top five or six players in this draft - so I wouldn't say never to a TE either.
I'm not a never tight ender, but close. And since I'm struggling to find motivation to work this morning, here's how I would break it down...
Never in the 1st:2-down LB2-down NTCover-two CBSpecial teams
Only if player is generational talent and this is your “last remaining need:”TERB
It’s wrong but I can be talked into it:SIOL3-down NT4-3 LB
Impact positions in orderQBDE3TCBOT
Seems a little too rigid. If you're drafting in the 20's, do you want to draft the 6th best DE or OT? Maybe if it's not a deep draft at those positions, but I think you have to also look at the value left on the board compared to your draft position. This is why teams stack their boards vertically as well as horizontally.
Yep, that's an excellent point.
Especially for such a knucklehead 
I also wonder how much of a winner the Rams are. The argument is that Stafford is a better qb than shown but he has just been on a bad team. I am not disputing that the Lions suck but who has he elevated there? Will McVay elevate his play remains to be seen.
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