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Trying not to turn this into a pissing match. If you can't say something that isn't inflammatory, I'd prefer you just let the thread die. I'm after rational discussion from all stripes of political leanings on the subject.
Our dilemma, both my work partner and my wife are in need of new employees for their respective businesses. From a local/national economy side of things going with less staff when you have the opportunity to create a job and a living for someone else seems wasteful.
Our area is rural in the deep red state of TN. We pay college interns around $10. You typically see starting pay for secretarial work around $12ish? That number probably inflates a few dollars for factories. Call it $14ish? Warehouse work is more. I think Amazon starts around $18. Obviously the trades pay more.
We're all nervous to hire new people right now. My partner has some long term employees that are making above $15/hr but she's nervous that if minimum wage is increased to $15, how much will she need to increase their pay to keep them happy? If they get a higher wage what does that do to our ability to keep the doors open. Logistically, increasing fees on clients isn't possible in our line of work. My wife's business could increase fees a little easier but again it's not a great conversation to have with long term clients.
I'm quite ok with there being a higher minimum wage. We would not even dream of hiring someone at the current minimum wage. Our philosophy has always been, minimum wage = minimum effort. Instead of a blanket $15 minimum wage nationwide I wish there was a way to scale it to the local cost of living. To me, although harder to figure, it would be a more appropriate way to figure out the value of labor.
Thoughts?
Were any of them considered essential workers? Like those that had to work at grocery stores or day care. Where they essential to your business and your profits. I guess you need to look at your compensation distribution and see if things may have changed. What kind of bureaucracy would you suggest to determine the local scale. The min is the floor local scale would be the ceiling, i would think.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
Were any of them considered essential workers? Like those that had to work at grocery stores or day care. Where they essential to your business and your profits. I guess you need to look at your compensation distribution and see if things may have changed. What kind of bureaucracy would you suggest to determine the local scale. The min is the floor local scale would be the ceiling, i would think.
Assuming you're talking about Covid....according to the State of TN pretty much everyone was "an essential worker". I know of very very very very few business that weren't considered essential here unless they were a bar/restaurant. However, I'm lost on what you're getting at? If you meant essential to making the world go round then its a different answer.
I know right now our businesses are surviving maybe even thriving. I made the decision after the 2008 meltdown that my personal business would only get as big as I could handle myself come hell or high water. I don't care if I can make more money. I will not do more then what I can handle even if it makes me less efficient. Part of that was the partnership I'm in where I'm my own entity and my partner is her's but we share some resources.
My wife's business was great before Covid. (work scheduled out 2-3 years) 2020 taught her to do more digitally which has cause it to completely blow up. She's able to do more with less and charge in more areas then she did before. Its gotten to the point where she cannot do the administration side anymore but we're spooked about hiring someone if say we need to pay +$5 over minimum to find someone decent? $41k plus SS/Medicare/unemployment/etc etc is a lot of money to promise someone.
I honestly have no idea how you figure out a regional scale? Maybe it should stay in the hands of the states themselves? I just know that Billy Bob's liquor store in the middle of bumphuck Arkansas probably shouldn't be under the same plan as someone in the middle of NY city. I don't know how you go about rectifying that and maybe you cannot? Maybe its just to much bureaucracy to figure out?
From a liberal perspective, honest question, not trying to piss anyone off. Not trying to be smarter or have a bunch of gotchas or anything, just trying to better understand other peoples views.
If say we do double minimum wage from $7.50 to $15. Should all employees expect their pay to double? If you were making $15 should you now expect to make $30? And if all we're doing is doubling people's income wouldn't it be logical that we'd just end up doubling the cost of all the goods and services brought to market and end up in exactly the same position we started in?
Like I said minimum wage is the floor, state variations are the market working. Your OP made it sound like minimum wage job's are important to your expansion and will impact your current employees in a rural deep south area. As far as doubling everyone's pay that's a different issue, my opinion a strawman argument. Pains of running a business, if it's just a cheap labor market, offshore it, or find a "lean" way enable growth. Can't say your worried about society on one hand and wanting to create jobs, but not enough to offer a living living wage on the other. Sure it just not your income as an owner.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
Like I said minimum wage is the floor, state variations are the market working. Your OP made it sound like minimum wage job's are important to your expansion and will impact your current employees in a rural deep south area. As far as doubling everyone's pay that's a different issue, my opinion a strawman argument. Pains of running a business, if it's just a cheap labor market, offshore it, or find a "lean" way enable growth. Can't say your worried about society on one hand and wanting to create jobs, but not enough to offer a living living wage on the other. Sure it just not your income as an owner.
Fair points all around. I want to see anyone we have be able to live a decent life. What that even means anymore lol your guess is as good as mine.
The few people we bring into the fold, end up being more like family then they do like employees. Probably has more to do with the small numbers we do have. Like I said I think we're just talking amongst ourselves trying to figure out what pay needs to look like. So lets use numbers. Lets saying one of our long term employee is currently making $17.50 an hour. If we go to $15 minimum, what should a current $17.50 employee earn?
Our major concern is the ability or lack there of, to adjust our costs to customers to adjust for pay to employees.
Imo, your veteran employees (that you hope to retain) will need to see increases equal to or more, that the minimum wage people get. If min goes up $7 then all wages should go up $7 to account for the cost of goods that will correspondingly go up, otherwise that existing employee will lose buying power and thusly their standard of living.
Some will argue that cost of goods won't go up, but I rarely see companies take profit losses without jacking their prices.
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
When they want an increase in pay ask what new skills they are working on, and support that as a way to a raise, create a CI culture. I constantly tell the floor workers, they need to look at they bring to the table. The worst thing I ever heard was a operator, who had just got a raise tell me that "he gets paid to much" to clean up his machine.
are new skills expected of those benefitting from the artificial mandated increase? Isn't it expected that the current system of reward is based somewhat on rewarding skill levels and that those earning the lowest wages bring the least amount of valued skills and experience to the company they work for?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
Imo, your veteran employees (that you hope to retain) will need to see increases equal to or more, that the minimum wage people get. If min goes up $7 then all wages should go up $7 to account for the cost of goods that will correspondingly go up, otherwise that existing employee will lose buying power and thusly their standard of living.
Some will argue that cost of goods won't go up, but I rarely see companies take profit losses without jacking their prices.
https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/stat...14848?s=20
https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/stat...09475?s=20
I actually think it should be on a sliding scale based on number of employees.
Small businesses with say 5 or fewer employees can’t afford payroll like the 5,000+ employee companies choose not to.
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