OL Issue

[ThunderGod]

https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-blasts-critics-nfl/?fbclid=IwAR2WsZCH8xdyFoBrDWE_Y8-s5rqhh7lyRM8l_KqWO8UYSmes6iWZthV2r2o

[Guest]

Basically says it's little to no coaching on passing plays. 

[Guest]

@PurplePastor said:

Basically says it's little to no coaching on passing plays. 

Well how can that be? We were told the offensive line coach was exceptional!

[Guest]

Do we have an OL coaching problem or a OL talent problem?

https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-vikings/analyst-rips-garrett-bradbury-nfl-draft/?fbclid=IwAR0rDcu7O-LJss7SOn3gmwaMkrzhVF_VvjZB6084YyPV_kAMef0WLjkJ-js

[Guest]

Honestly think coaching.  For example, the Browns brought in the "Tip of the Spear" developer / coach this past year Scott Peters.  He worked with our HS squad & my son of striking / driving / leverage...made a big difference.  A good coach makes a world of difference.

https://tipofthespearfootball.com/scott-peters-bio/

[Guest]

i don’t know enough about it but i cannot figure out how the Packers can give Rodgers the protection he gets all these years.  

Yah I know about the holding and some of it is true as they developed some of the inside the shoulders holding but look at what they are able to field year after year and what problems and holes the Vikings have had for years.

[Guest]

@ThunderGod said:
i don’t know enough about it but i cannot figure out how the Packers can give Rodgers the protection he gets all these years.  

Yah I know about the holding and some of it is true as they developed some of the inside the shoulders holding but look at what they are able to field year after year and what problems and holes the Vikings have had for years.

Agree overall but I will also add that Rodgers is excellent at getting ride of the ball quickly which helps pass protection.  Unlike Brady who will throw the ball into the ground with heavy pressure Rodgers avoids and throws some darts improve.  That said and yes GB has had a consistently good OL.   The Pack have a nice mix of drafted OL, free agent signings and UDFA players.  

Here is an article from earlier this season:

‘Unsung heroes’ on Packers’ offensive line have made Aaron Rodgers’ life easier

[Guest]

One reason I find the Cousins haters to be so bizarre is that they'll manage to look right past what was accomplished despite horrible line and defensive plays, and be immediately drooling for ANY other QB...despite Kirk likely finishing his Vikings career as our top-rated QB...ever.

I'll never call him perfect, and he obviously doesn't have the charisma that ol' Burt Favor did...but he can hit incredible passes regularly, is more mobile now, and can be lethal if given time.  I think he could be a very good, important part of a great Vikings team if the known issues are addressed.

Sadly, the biggest is coaching.  Zimmer has to let the offense get a dominant lead before going into clock-management mode.  Needing the offense to come back from double-digit deficits constantly was ridiculous.

[Guest]

@Zanary said:
One reason I find the Cousins haters to be so bizarre is that they'll manage to look right past what was accomplished despite horrible line and defensive plays, and be immediately drooling for ANY other QB...despite Kirk likely finishing his Vikings career as our top-rated QB...ever.

I'll never call him perfect, and he obviously doesn't have the charisma that ol' Burt Favor did...but he can hit incredible passes regularly, is more mobile now, and can be lethal if given time.  I think he could be a very good, important part of a great Vikings team if the known issues are addressed.

Sadly, the biggest is coaching.  Zimmer has to let the offense get a dominant lead before going into clock-management mode.  Needing the offense to come back from double-digit deficits constantly was ridiculous.

I think you are creating a strawman “Cousins Haters”.  Very few people are completely ignoring the
OLine or Defense, and extremely few people are DROOLING over ANY
other qb.


My take is that Cousins is just not good enough to get us to
the SB unless the team is perfect around him. 
I don’t think he’ll win enough games to get us a bye in the
playoffs.  I don’t think he’ll be able to
beat 3-4 playoff caliber teams in a row. 
I don’t think he’s bad, but you really need an elite QB to win a SB or
get extremely lucky.  I think you need to
be always working to get an elite QB, because a good but not elite QB is not
good enough.  I also think that if you’re
going to have a not good enough QB, I’d rather pay a lot less and try to
improve the team around them while finding that elite QB.

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@Zanary said:
One reason I find the Cousins haters to be so bizarre is that they'll manage to look right past what was accomplished despite horrible line and defensive plays, and be immediately drooling for ANY other QB...despite Kirk likely finishing his Vikings career as our top-rated QB...ever.

I'll never call him perfect, and he obviously doesn't have the charisma that ol' Burt Favor did...but he can hit incredible passes regularly, is more mobile now, and can be lethal if given time.  I think he could be a very good, important part of a great Vikings team if the known issues are addressed.

Sadly, the biggest is coaching.  Zimmer has to let the offense get a dominant lead before going into clock-management mode.  Needing the offense to come back from double-digit deficits constantly was ridiculous.

I think you are creating a strawman “Cousins Haters”.  Very few people are completely ignoring the
OLine or Defense, and extremely few people are DROOLING over ANY
other qb.


My take is that Cousins is just not good enough to get us to
the SB unless the team is perfect around him. 
I don’t think he’ll win enough games to get us a bye in the
playoffs.  I don’t think he’ll be able to
beat 3-4 playoff caliber teams in a row. 
I don’t think he’s bad, but you really need an elite QB to win a SB or
get extremely lucky.  I think you need to
be always working to get an elite QB, because a good but not elite QB is not
good enough.  I also think that if you’re
going to have a not good enough QB, I’d rather pay a lot less and try to
improve the team around them while finding that elite QB.

True that "drooling over ANY other qb" may be an overstatement, but IMO Zanary is right about many fans, and a corollary is the belief that, "if we had a mobile/running QB our OL problems wouldn't matter". I think we see highlights of mobile QBs evading the pressure in key games against strong opponents, but they often have excellent protection for 90% of their games. Cousins, OTOH, is under heavy fire even when we face really poor opponents. If we had a "mobile QB" and did not fix our OL problems, he would have to be running or throwing on the move all the time, and then people would be complaining that he needs to become more of a pocket passer.