Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Oh how fickle we fans are. Lets not forget that before Zimmer got here we floundered for 13 years with Mike Tice, Brad Childress and Les Frazier....but we want to throw Zimmer out with the wash after an injury riddled, rookie breaking in, Covid restricted season? Makes no sense to me.
No, we want to throw him out after a 2016 season that started 5-0 and completely melted down to 8-8, a 2017 that was built on weak regular season opponents (and an offense he was criticizing even as it carried his team) and evaporated in the playoffs), and instead of progress from the 2017 peak when we were supposed to be 1 player away (QB) and got it, we have had 1 playoff appearance in 3 seasons and are not getting better.
But all his supporters see Les Frazier in their nightmares and clutch Zimmer like a teddy bear...
The NFL is a league of parody, its just the way its built now days.
Yes I find myself laughing at it often, like those refs jobbing the Lions the other day.
Mike Zimmer's legacy as Vikings coach hinges on this offseasonThe statement was made in Detroit, but it came across as intending to be heard and interpreted with a nod of agreement somewhere in New Jersey.
Mike Zimmer's parting shot Sunday that a 7-9 season was "maybe the best we could have done" sounded less like an off-the-cuff rambling by a coach and more like an appeal to Vikings owners Zygi and Mark Wilf to resist a regime change.
In sports, a fine line exists between excuses and explanations, and the Vikings undeniably encountered their share of tough breaks that sabotaged their defense. Losing Danielle Hunter, Anthony Barr, Michael Pierce and Eric Kendricks were not minor hiccups.
However, the Vikings beat the NFC's No. 1 seed on the road, came within a failed fourth-and-1 conversion of winning on the road against the No. 3 seed, finally won at Soldier Field and lost by one point to the AFC's No. 4 team on a 55-yard field goal.
So, no, seven wins did not have to be their ceiling. Had they not lost at home to Chicago on Dec. 20, the Vikings would have a playoff game this weekend.
The Wilfs have not spoken publicly on the matter, but I don't believe Zimmer's or General Manager Rick Spielman's jobs are in jeopardy. I think they'll both be back, and I think they have a lot of work to do.
The road to redemption won't be as simple as welcoming back stars on defense. The to-do list is longer than that.
This becomes another critical offseason for the organization, in the same way that last offseason carried the theme of a page-turner. The Wilfs should start by issuing an edict to their coach and GM: Missing the playoffs again next season won't be acceptable.
This roller-coaster ride of Zimmer's tenure — good season, bad season, good season, bad season — is maddeningly consistent in its unevenness, which makes it difficult to render an ultimate judgment. There is always a surge following disappointment. Expect Zimmer to get the chance to pull off another bounce-back season.
The coach will not have some of his favorites alongside him, though. The team's tight salary-cap situation likely will force a continuation of the roster purge initiated last winter, which means parting ways with more veterans. Barr, Kyle Rudolph, Anthony Harris and Dan Bailey are obvious candidates.
Next order of business: Upgrade both lines. The offensive line needs a minimum of two new starters in the interior. The pocket caved around Kirk Cousins too many times up the gut.
The defensive line is a bigger concern. The return of Hunter and Pierce fixes some of that weakness, but even with them back, that position group needs significant improvement.
Oddly, the offense caused as much public consternation as the defense, which has more to do with philosophy than performance. The Vikings fielded a Top-10 offense with Cousins having one of his best seasons statistically, Dalvin Cook establishing himself as one of the league's most dynamic players and rookie Justin Jefferson setting receiving records in becoming an instant star.
And yet …
There is still more available to squeeze from that collection of individual talent by showing more unpredictability and better game management in critical situations.
NFL Network reported that offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak is considering retirement, which Kubiak hinted at in a Zoom call with reporters last week.
Whatever happens there, Zimmer needs to self-reflect and be willing to soften on his offensive philosophy. Cook is a special talent. Putting the ball in his hands as much as possible makes sense. But easing his workload by featuring a pair of star receivers and a pair of promising tight ends in a more modernized scheme makes more sense.
Next season could bring a new coordinator and a handful of new starters. That represents more than a tweak. Not a teardown or a classic rebuild but substantive change. Change is necessary, because it's too convenient to suggest that simply having Danielle Hunter and Anthony Barr back will make everything A-OK.
https://www.startribune.com/mike-zimmer-...600006813/
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
Mike Zimmer's legacy as Vikings coach hinges on this offseasonThe statement was made in Detroit, but it came across as intending to be heard and interpreted with a nod of agreement somewhere in New Jersey.
Mike Zimmer's parting shot Sunday that a 7-9 season was "maybe the best we could have done" sounded less like an off-the-cuff rambling by a coach and more like an appeal to Vikings owners Zygi and Mark Wilf to resist a regime change.
In sports, a fine line exists between excuses and explanations, and the Vikings undeniably encountered their share of tough breaks that sabotaged their defense. Losing Danielle Hunter, Anthony Barr, Michael Pierce and Eric Kendricks were not minor hiccups.
However, the Vikings beat the NFC's No. 1 seed on the road, came within a failed fourth-and-1 conversion of winning on the road against the No. 3 seed, finally won at Soldier Field and lost by one point to the AFC's No. 4 team on a 55-yard field goal.
So, no, seven wins did not have to be their ceiling. Had they not lost at home to Chicago on Dec. 20, the Vikings would have a playoff game this weekend.
The Wilfs have not spoken publicly on the matter, but I don't believe Zimmer's or General Manager Rick Spielman's jobs are in jeopardy. I think they'll both be back, and I think they have a lot of work to do.
The road to redemption won't be as simple as welcoming back stars on defense. The to-do list is longer than that.
This becomes another critical offseason for the organization, in the same way that last offseason carried the theme of a page-turner. The Wilfs should start by issuing an edict to their coach and GM: Missing the playoffs again next season won't be acceptable.
This roller-coaster ride of Zimmer's tenure — good season, bad season, good season, bad season — is maddeningly consistent in its unevenness, which makes it difficult to render an ultimate judgment. There is always a surge following disappointment. Expect Zimmer to get the chance to pull off another bounce-back season.
The coach will not have some of his favorites alongside him, though. The team's tight salary-cap situation likely will force a continuation of the roster purge initiated last winter, which means parting ways with more veterans. Barr, Kyle Rudolph, Anthony Harris and Dan Bailey are obvious candidates.
Next order of business: Upgrade both lines. The offensive line needs a minimum of two new starters in the interior. The pocket caved around Kirk Cousins too many times up the gut.
The defensive line is a bigger concern. The return of Hunter and Pierce fixes some of that weakness, but even with them back, that position group needs significant improvement.
Oddly, the offense caused as much public consternation as the defense, which has more to do with philosophy than performance. The Vikings fielded a Top-10 offense with Cousins having one of his best seasons statistically, Dalvin Cook establishing himself as one of the league's most dynamic players and rookie Justin Jefferson setting receiving records in becoming an instant star.
And yet …
There is still more available to squeeze from that collection of individual talent by showing more unpredictability and better game management in critical situations.
NFL Network reported that offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak is considering retirement, which Kubiak hinted at in a Zoom call with reporters last week.
Whatever happens there, Zimmer needs to self-reflect and be willing to soften on his offensive philosophy. Cook is a special talent. Putting the ball in his hands as much as possible makes sense. But easing his workload by featuring a pair of star receivers and a pair of promising tight ends in a more modernized scheme makes more sense.
Next season could bring a new coordinator and a handful of new starters. That represents more than a tweak. Not a teardown or a classic rebuild but substantive change. Change is necessary, because it's too convenient to suggest that simply having Danielle Hunter and Anthony Barr back will make everything A-OK.
https://www.startribune.com/mike-zimmer-...600006813/
His legacy?? LOL, that's dramatic Skip. What's too 'convenient' is not acknowledging all of the challenges the coaching staff had to face. How can the D not improve with a healthy Hunter, Barr and Pierce returning? A full offseason for the young corners to actually learn and improve? Possible starters in the upcoming Draft?
I'm not saying you have to be drinking the Kool-Aid for 2021, but I'm also not sure its time to start pouring a big glass of arsenic, either.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Mike Zimmer's legacy as Vikings coach hinges on this offseasonHis legacy?? LOL, that's dramatic Skip. What's too 'convenient' is not acknowledging all of the challenges the coaching staff had to face. How can the D not improve with a healthy Hunter, Barr and Pierce returning? A full offseason for the young corners to actually learn and improve? Possible starters in the upcoming Draft?
I'm not saying you have to be drinking the Kool-Aid for 2021, but I'm also not sure its time to start pouring a big glass of arsenic, either.
This board wont reflect it, but the Viking fanbase in MN is about to get more grumpy and full of un-rest.
The reason? GB success and their march towards a SB this post-season. It's a lot of salt in an open wound for purple fans living here.
I'm 1/2 Sconnie myself and even I sure as hell dont want to see them succeed.
Zimmer's mantra for excuses: "turnover and injuries".
Turnover must mean Griffen, Joseph, Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander. Who failed to build depth to deal with turnover? Who failed to avoid having so many key salary issues occurring at once? Who couldn't develop Waynes and Alexander and make them willing to stay here? Who misjudged Rhodes? Who didn't draft and develop depth?
Injuries: They happen. Good teams build depth. The Vikings approach has been to gather the most day 3 draft picks of any team (fact, not hyperbole), even at the cost of earlier picks, and trust their coaches to turn them into competent NFL players - not necessarily stars, but guys who can step into an injured player's spot without embarrassment. That approach has failed: 64 day 3 picks in the Zimmer-era drafts, only 1 competent player, Stefon Diggs. No depth, so this team is a house of cards.
This time next year, Zimmer and his supporters will be crying about losing Ant Harris and Eric Wilson and Shamar Stephen and Kyle Rudolph - more turnover, like it was a surprise. Pierce will be out of shape when he reports, Harrison Smith and Anthony Barr will be less effective, and a few other players will have missed time due to injuries and no one will step up because, again, the team does not know how to build depth. If Cook or Thielen missed a chunk of time, who would step up?
Well, the owners keep making money and they have a bunch of fans who make excuses for them, so they won't change.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
Zimmer's mantra for excuses: "turnover and injuries".
Turnover must mean Griffen, Joseph, Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander. Who failed to build depth to deal with turnover? Who failed to avoid having so many key salary issues occurring at once? Who couldn't develop Waynes and Alexander and make them willing to stay here? Who misjudged Rhodes? Who didn't draft and develop depth?
Injuries: They happen. Good teams build depth. The Vikings approach has been to gather the most day 3 draft picks of any team (fact, not hyperbole), even at the cost of earlier picks, and trust their coaches to turn them into competent NFL players - not necessarily stars, but guys who can step into an injured player's spot without embarrassment. That approach has failed: 64 day 3 picks in the Zimmer-era drafts, only 1 competent player, Stefon Diggs. No depth, so this team is a house of cards.
This time next year, Zimmer and his supporters will be crying about losing Ant Harris and Eric Wilson and Shamar Stephen and Kyle Rudolph - more turnover, like it was a surprise. Pierce will be out of shape when he reports, Harrison Smith and Anthony Barr will be less effective, and a few other players will have missed time due to injuries and no one will step up because, again, the team does not know how to build depth. If Cook or Thielen missed a chunk of time, who would step up?
Well, the owners keep making money and they have a bunch of fans who make excuses for them, so they won't change.
Do you live in MN?
I'm only asking cause it doesnt feel like a lot of love for Zimmer among the locals...That's going to trend down (way down) if GB wins another SB.
I gotta good pulse on it too, living here all my life...
This board imho doesnt reflect Viking fans more broadly.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ Jor-El said:
Zimmer's mantra for excuses: "turnover and injuries".
Turnover must mean Griffen, Joseph, Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander. Who failed to build depth to deal with turnover? Who failed to avoid having so many key salary issues occurring at once? Who couldn't develop Waynes and Alexander and make them willing to stay here? Who misjudged Rhodes? Who didn't draft and develop depth?
Injuries: They happen. Good teams build depth. The Vikings approach has been to gather the most day 3 draft picks of any team (fact, not hyperbole), even at the cost of earlier picks, and trust their coaches to turn them into competent NFL players - not necessarily stars, but guys who can step into an injured player's spot without embarrassment. That approach has failed: 64 day 3 picks in the Zimmer-era drafts, only 1 competent player, Stefon Diggs. No depth, so this team is a house of cards.
This time next year, Zimmer and his supporters will be crying about losing Ant Harris and Eric Wilson and Shamar Stephen and Kyle Rudolph - more turnover, like it was a surprise. Pierce will be out of shape when he reports, Harrison Smith and Anthony Barr will be less effective, and a few other players will have missed time due to injuries and no one will step up because, again, the team does not know how to build depth. If Cook or Thielen missed a chunk of time, who would step up?
Well, the owners keep making money and they have a bunch of fans who make excuses for them, so they won't change.
Do you live in MN?
I'm only asking cause it doesnt feel like a lot of love for Zimmer among the locals...That's going to trend down (way down) if GB wins another SB.
I gotta good pulse on it too, living here all my life...
This board imho doesnt reflect Viking fans more broadly.
you dont have to have a blue liscense plate to feel the pain, plenty of us in the surrounding area that deal with cheese heads on a regular basis and will only get more frustrated with our situation as they move through the playoffs.
the only salvation is this.... when they are talking about how good the puke are and how bad the Vikings were this season, I just say they cant be that confident considering the ass kicking we put on them in lameblow and it was only through the gifts of the refs that they made it that close.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ Jor-El said:
Zimmer's mantra for excuses: "turnover and injuries".
Turnover must mean Griffen, Joseph, Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander. Who failed to build depth to deal with turnover? Who failed to avoid having so many key salary issues occurring at once? Who couldn't develop Waynes and Alexander and make them willing to stay here? Who misjudged Rhodes? Who didn't draft and develop depth?
Injuries: They happen. Good teams build depth. The Vikings approach has been to gather the most day 3 draft picks of any team (fact, not hyperbole), even at the cost of earlier picks, and trust their coaches to turn them into competent NFL players - not necessarily stars, but guys who can step into an injured player's spot without embarrassment. That approach has failed: 64 day 3 picks in the Zimmer-era drafts, only 1 competent player, Stefon Diggs. No depth, so this team is a house of cards.
This time next year, Zimmer and his supporters will be crying about losing Ant Harris and Eric Wilson and Shamar Stephen and Kyle Rudolph - more turnover, like it was a surprise. Pierce will be out of shape when he reports, Harrison Smith and Anthony Barr will be less effective, and a few other players will have missed time due to injuries and no one will step up because, again, the team does not know how to build depth. If Cook or Thielen missed a chunk of time, who would step up?
Well, the owners keep making money and they have a bunch of fans who make excuses for them, so they won't change.
Do you live in MN?
I'm only asking cause it doesnt feel like a lot of love for Zimmer among the locals...That's going to trend down (way down) if GB wins another SB.
I gotta good pulse on it too, living here all my life...
This board imho doesnt reflect Viking fans more broadly.
you dont have to have a blue liscense plate to feel the pain, plenty of us in the surrounding area that deal with cheese heads on a regular basis and will only get more frustrated with our situation as they move through the playoffs.
the only salvation is this.... when they are talking about how good the puke are and how bad the Vikings were this season, I just say they cant be that confident considering the ass kicking we put on them in lameblow and it was only through the gifts of the refs that they made it that close.
Could be worse...Your handle could be Wetlander :p
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ Jor-El said:
Zimmer's mantra for excuses: "turnover and injuries".
Turnover must mean Griffen, Joseph, Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander. Who failed to build depth to deal with turnover? Who failed to avoid having so many key salary issues occurring at once? Who couldn't develop Waynes and Alexander and make them willing to stay here? Who misjudged Rhodes? Who didn't draft and develop depth?
Injuries: They happen. Good teams build depth. The Vikings approach has been to gather the most day 3 draft picks of any team (fact, not hyperbole), even at the cost of earlier picks, and trust their coaches to turn them into competent NFL players - not necessarily stars, but guys who can step into an injured player's spot without embarrassment. That approach has failed: 64 day 3 picks in the Zimmer-era drafts, only 1 competent player, Stefon Diggs. No depth, so this team is a house of cards.
This time next year, Zimmer and his supporters will be crying about losing Ant Harris and Eric Wilson and Shamar Stephen and Kyle Rudolph - more turnover, like it was a surprise. Pierce will be out of shape when he reports, Harrison Smith and Anthony Barr will be less effective, and a few other players will have missed time due to injuries and no one will step up because, again, the team does not know how to build depth. If Cook or Thielen missed a chunk of time, who would step up?
Well, the owners keep making money and they have a bunch of fans who make excuses for them, so they won't change.
Do you live in MN?
I'm only asking cause it doesnt feel like a lot of love for Zimmer among the locals...That's going to trend down (way down) if GB wins another SB.
I gotta good pulse on it too, living here all my life...
This board imho doesnt reflect Viking fans more broadly.
Krypton. 
56+ years in MN. I'm not sure what is the "general" fan base. I know a lot of people who watch every game and attend 1 or more a year but don't read message boards, don't pay any attention to the salary cap, and the Monday after the draft they know only the name of our 1st-round pick (maybe). Among those, some definitely grumble but I think many are "just fine" with Zimmer, as they were "just fine" with Gardenhire and Molitor managing the Twins. Some people feel that, win or lose, loyalty means supporting anyone who is wearing the team uniform (or at least the hat in Zimmer's case).
This board...well, I think it is a slice who are more obsessed with the team than 99% of the fanbase. Obviously there's a lot of division here, but there is a subset that follows what I described above: fiercely loyal to Zimmer until the moment he stops being a Viking.
OMG just cut bait with this guy. He is completely mediocre and hasn’t accomplished jack shit here.
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